That Israel has become an apartheid state is so self-evident that it is impossible to put the fact back in the box. Sky News’ Sam Kiley said it a year ago, and that was almost as surprising as Kerry’s rush of honesty. A state which has hundreds of laws defining the rights and obligations of its different groups of citizens by their ethnicity, enforcing zoning and separate education and public service provisio, and even limiting the right of defined ethnic groups to live with their spouses, is a state which can be characterized by no other word than Apartheid. Israel’s claims to be a democracy exactly echo the similar claim of apartheid South Africa.
I am however delighted if the neo-con plan for a “two state” solution is now dead, because that plan was precisely the same plan that South Africa had for its “Bantustan” reserves for black people. The only difference being that Israel has been much more vicious, herded the indigenous population into much smaller and less viable areas than was allowed to the “Bantustans”, subjected them to appalling economic blockade and then continually ripped away more and more of their small amount of land on a daily basis.
The difference between apartheid South Africa’s Bantustans and the “two state solution”, is that the Israel version is, incredibly, even worse, even more evil.
As in South Africa, the ONLY acceptable solution for Israel/Palestine is freedom and majority rule. People of goodwill should never again be sidetracked into pursuing the kind of apartheid solutions being pushed by Tony Blair.
had almost given up watching Aljaz, but then along comes this truly EXTRAORDINARY film:
25 mins VIDEO: Aljazeera: Israel’s drone dealers
People and Power investigates how Israeli drone technology came to be used
by the US
It’s a fair assumption then that most people would also think that the US
had developed this technology in the first place, and that the use of drones
for “targeted assassinations” was a tactic wholly of America’s devising.
But they’d be wrong.
Well before Sept. 11, and well before the US even thought of sending a
missile-laden Predator to take out an enemy, the Israeli Defence Force (IDF)
was using UAVs to track down Palestinian and Hezbollah “terrorists” and
Israeli aeronautic and arms manufacturers were creating a thriving,
export-driven drones industry off the back of this strategy…
During
Operation Cast Lead, for example, which the rest of the world knows as the
2008-09 Gaza War, drones were crucial in identifying and hitting targets.
Commercially, this appears to have given the Israeli arms industry an
unparalleled advantage in a rapidly expanding market. In the last five years
Israel has become the world’s biggest UAV exporte, with Israeli drones being
used by six NATO armies in Afghanistan…
Israeli filmmaker, Yotam Feldman, who produced this investigation of “Israel’s
Drone Dealers” for People and Power, asked van Creveld to clarify this
remark.
“You say, ‘it’s not enough to kill people in Gaza with drones, you have to
kill them yourself, in order to call yourself a warrior’?”
“Well, yes,” the historian replied. “Otherwise you are a butcher. That’s
exactly the difference between a soldier and a butcher. A soldier puts his
own life at risk, a butcher doesn’t.”…
Little of this seems to bother the customers from the US, UK, Canada,
France, Australia, Germany, Spain, Brazil and India who have all bought
Israel’s battle hardened’ UAV technology for their own use. As explained by
one anonymous German air force pilot who was training on a recently
purchased Israeli drone, “This is a really capable system, and it’s a proven
system, and right now it gives us the basic capabilities that we need.”
That, for now at least, seems to be sufficient justification.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/peopleandpower/2014/04/201442911431250545.html
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
1 May, 2014 – 8:05 pm
“Mr Scorgie”
“When was the last time you made a sensible post with some serious content?”
Answer Habbabkuk:
Doug Scorgie
30 Apr, 2014 – 6:17 pm
Anyone who knows the history of Zionism, the creation of Israel and the Palestinian struggle that says a two state solution is, or ever was viable, is dishonest in the extreme.
It was never on the cards.
I don’t believe (and I live in hope) that there ever will be a “Jewish state” run by Jews for the benefit of Jews.
Zionism is by its very nature a racist ideology and no other country should recognise Israel as a Jewish state.
You cannot have a Jewish AND democratic state, it’s an oxymoron.
There can only be a one state solution based on equality and democracy for all the citizens.
A problem that the Israeli government would face in a future one state democracy is terrorism; not from Palestinians, but Zionist Jews within the extremist “settlers” and “pioneers”.
A situation entirely created by the Zionists themselves.
PS I note you didn’t take me to task on the above.
Aye Mary Great stuff from the Floyd Boys…
Heres some more on u.s terror aid to israel
Since the mid-1990s, according to the Congressional Research Report, ‘US Foreign Aid to the Palestinians’, dated September 30, 2013, the US has committed (note: the report does not say ‘sent’) $5 billion dollars to Palestine. That, of course, sounds like a great deal of money, but that sum must be put into context. Since 1987, the US has sent over $3 billion dollars to Israel, every year. So if we assume that ‘the mid-1990s’ means 1995, Palestine was scheduled to receive an average of $158 million each year, or about $433,000 a day. Israel, receiving $3 billion a year, averages about $9 million a day, most of it in military aid. During fiscal year 2013, while the US was busy giving Israel its nearly $9 million dollars a day in military aid, the sum given to Palestine for military aid was $0.
As a result of this generous largess by the US, Israel has the most sophisticated weapons of offense and defense that exist in the world today. Palestinians, on the other hand, are occasionally able to cobble together sufficient supplies to make a few bottle rockets.
At least partly because of this unspeakable inequality by the U.S, since 2000, 1,109 Israelis have been killed in conflicts with Palestinians, yet 6,862 Palestinians have been killed. Among the population of children, 129 Israeli children have died, and at least 1,523 Palestinian children have been killed by Israel. In that time period, 8550 Israelis have been injured. This is compared to 54,761 Palestinians injured in that same time. Palestine currently detains no Israelis, yet 5,224 Palestinians are incarcerated in Israeli prisons. Going back further, since 1967, at least 27,000 Palestinian homes have been destroyed by Israel. No Israeli homes have been destroyed by Palestine.
Full piece @
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/how-israel-actively-pursues-the-complete-annihilation-of-palestine#.U2LKLoFdWqg
oddie 1 May, 2014 – 10:48 pm
They build the engines for drones at Shenstone, near Lichfield. I’ve protested against this drone manufacturer more than once.
http://newsjunkiepost.com/2013/05/24/drones-the-global-empires-current-weapon-of-choice/
Mr Scorgie (22h51)
No, Doug, you didn’t read my question carefully enough – I was asking for a SENSIBLE post with some SERIOUS CONTENT. Feel free to have another go.
*******************
La vita è bella, life is good!
BrianFujisan 1 May, 2014 – 11:31 pm
Thanks for those figures Brian. Disproportionate response appears, as Peter Oborne has shown, to be the Israeli government’s way of doing things. When William Hague, who few would accuse of being moderate, used the word ‘disproportionate’ for the Israeli response of murdering up to 1000 Yemeni people, Conservative Party donations form the Zionist lobby ceased. This is how politics is done by the Zionist/Neocon groups.
Duncan McFarlane and Technicolour, I ignored your mutual comments of agreement at me being ‘anti-semitic’ as you would like others to believe, but feel I ought to explain why. Firstly, and this happens so often on this blog, I said, ““Not all Jewish people are bad and I know there is a Jewish man helping children get to school by his presence I saw on one video. Unfortunately he is in a minority.”
By the time it got to Technicolour’s brain it had changed to:
“Not all Jewish people are bad, but most are?” and Technicolour had changed a totally innocuous statement into a conflict, adding “How dare you!” to give it emphasis. This is Animal Farm. The original notice being something like “No animal can sleep in beds” but when Snowball died and the bad pigs took power they added: “No animal can sleep in beds, except pigs.” This is how politicians distort facts to make people appear to have said something they have not.
I perhaps should have used the word Israeli rather than Jewish, but his nationality might have been obvious since he was helping Palestinian children get to school. It was an act of kindness that demonstrates that in Israel/Palestine there are Jewish people prepared, at no small cost to themselves, to stand against authority and and do the decent thing. Technicolour tried to turn this into a racist comment from me. I doubt there is anybody who comments here who has been more supportive of Jewish people of whom I approve, like Aaron Russo and the Jewish lady in a comment on this thread who talked about how Israel uses the Holocaust card in debate. And only five days ago I posted this comment about Aaron Swarz.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/oops-can-anyone-help/#comment-454504
Though I ignored it because it was Technicolour but I was surprised to see intelligent people like Clark and Duncan McFarlane taken in by Technicolour’s attempt to turn my comment into racist abuse, so thought I ought to say, and most people already know this, I am not racist towards Jews, or Semites, or Africans, or Chinese, or Americans or any other nationality. I just like to see justice done.
Perhaps had I written “Not all Jewish people are bad and I know there is a Jewish man helping children get to school by his presence I saw on one video. Unfortunately he is in a minority in helping Palestinian children get safely to school” it would have taken away Technicolour’s attempt to make people believe I am racist towards Jews.
It’s apartheid all right. Outgoing UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk presents his final report:
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/News/6061/21/Falk-on-Israel–It%E2%80%99s-apartheid.aspx
“Through prolonged occupation, with practices and policies of apartheid and segregation, ongoing expansion of settlements, and continual construction of the wall arguably amounting to de facto annexation of parts of the occupied Palestinian territory; the denial by Israel of the right to self-determination of the Palestinian people is evident.” Israel’s violations of Palestinians human rights are “deliberate, organised and institutionalised”, writes the special rapporteur.
Fact: Palestinian chilren are regularly attacked by Jewish settlers on the way to school.
http://www.teachersolidarity.com/blog/palestinian-children-attacked-on-their-way-to-school
Fact: Numerous Jewish people, both secular and religious, oppose the illegal acts done in their name and have the integtity and guts take a stand for Palestinians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW7mJlcU1vY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuAZ_kJ0j6I
Fact: There is a “Hasbara” industry dedicated to attacking anyone who dare’s question the actions of the Zionist entity.
…
Legend has it that one of LBJ wanted to spread the story that his opponent liked to have sex with pigs. When his aides doubted the story Johnson is said to have replied, “I know that. I just want to hear him deny it.”
John. What was this doing in your “Girlfriends” folder?
http://media.photobucket.com/user/3M-TA3/media/3M-TA3/funnyMISSPIGGY.jpg.html?filters%5Bterm%5D=miss%20piggy&filters%5Bprimary%5D=images&filters%5Bsecondary%5D=videos&sort=1&o=3
I think you need to change your passwords.
John Goss: you mean that if you had written something less appalling it would have been less appalling. Right.
As it is, I see your phrase “Not all Jewish people are bad” still stands. Have you asked yourself yet what kind of person would say “Not all Muslim people are bad”, or “Not all Irish people are bad”?. Said without humour, it is either hysterically crass, or outrageous in its implication that while ‘not all’ of ‘them’ are bad, most are. While I would have been happy to give you the benefit of the doubt and opt for the former, the latter was unpleasantly reinforced by your pointing out that your selected ‘good’ one is in the minority. I see you now qualify this by saying ‘in the minority of people prepared to escort Palestinian children to school’. He is, however, far from being alone. Have you, as Duncan Macfarlane clearly has, done any research into the size and scale of resistance movements inside and outside Israel? Or even the results of recent Knesset elections? Clearly not.
The brutal and murderous actions of the Israeli government are one thing. The berating and finger pointing at anyone linked to Judaism with whom the writer disagrees is another. Your own, even modified, stance – which judges people as an entity, rather than seeing them as people first and foremost – people just like you, in fact – does not, I’m afraid, advance humanity one iota.
I did not use the terms ‘anti-semitic’ or ‘racist’ though it clearly suits you to pretend I did. The sinister meme of ‘them’, however – it can overwhelm.
Technicolour, you misconstrued totally. What I wrote was not appalling. Only to your interpretation of it and deliberate attempt to berate me and turn me into somebody who has no sympathy for decent Jewish people, when the whole point was exactly the opposite and indeed what you have written above, “people just like you, in fact”. I would like to think if it came to it I would have the courage of the one man, there was only one in the video, who put his own safety at risk to protect children going to school. Not only did you misconstrue that the minority applied to this, you also misconstrued the first part of the comment. To make it perfectly clear it would have been better prefixed by, “Despite what people say” or “Despite what people say on this blog . . .” even. Comments are written hurriedly and there are no edit facilities. But you, with Duncan McFarlane’s assistance, and it was he who labelled me as anti-semitic, you have tried to make me out to be something I am not. Habbabkuk used to do this, and I am beginning to wonder where you are coming from!
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
2 May, 2014 – 7:40 am
“Mr Scorgie (22h51)”
“No, Doug, you didn’t read my question carefully enough – I was asking for a SENSIBLE post with some SERIOUS CONTENT. Feel free to have another go.”
I’ve had a go Habbabkuk, now it’s your turn.
Either, address the points Craig made here, or argue against what I said.
You are an ardent Zionist Habbabkuk but with no ability to justify your position.
The same goes for your playfellows on this blog.
Where are they all?
John Goss: I can hardly apologise for ‘misconstruing’ your comment, since you appear to have written precisely the opposite of what you think. As for your suggested amendments: “Despite what people say (on this blog), not all Jewish people are bad” – how does “Despite what people say about black people, not all black people are bad” sound to you as an opening line? I don’t think following that with an example of a black person being ‘good’ would ameliorate matters much, either.
But I’m happy to accept that you didn’t, actually, mean to say what you said, although you seem to still be vaguely trying to say it. I do think you are in danger of gazing for too long into the abyss of Israeli (and US and UK and Egypt etc) government policy. Philosophy aside, if you did some research – followed up Duncan’s suggestions for example – I think you would be heartened by general results which, quite specifically, demonstrate the sheer absurdity, as well as sheer wickedness, of anyone trying to classify people as “all bad”. Or indeed, ‘mostly bad’. As to holding up an example of an extremely brave person (the man who accompanies Palestinian children to school) and then judging the rest of their society by them; I would hesitate, unless I were someone who had, say, attempted to disable a B52 before the Iraq attack?
As to where I’m coming from, it should be obvious: I’m sure that, like you, I object to people making ill-informed and/or malicious generalisations about any creed, colour, race, nationality, gender, class, tribe, family, or person. Vegetables, of course, are fair game.
The fact that some support the two state solution isn’t because they do not realise it is apartheid South Africa. It is because they see apartheid South Africa as better than what is being practiced by the Zionists.
The Israel is not like Apartheid South Africa. Israel is like Nazi Germany.
Apartheid South Africa had no desire to expel, force out or exterminate Blacks and other non-whites the way Israel practices this on Palestinians.
Apartheid South Africa was about minority whites ruling other races. Nazi Israel and Nazi Germany are the same. Both are about cleansing a area of other peoples.
Technicolour (to Goss)
“Your own, even modified, stance – which judges people as an entity, rather than seeing them as people first and foremost – people just like you, in fact – does not, I’m afraid, advance…etc”
_________________
You will know, Technicolour, that the the Soviet Bolshevik régime judged – and dealt with – people on a class basis.
This is probably why Goss thinks as he does, by entities.
Mr Scorgie
“You are an ardent Zionist Habbabkuk but with no ability to justify your position.
The same goes for your playfellows on this blog.
Where are they all?”
________________
At a strategy meeting in Tel Aviv, of course. Where else?
You really are an extraordinarily silly fellow.
Since I’m here, Habbakuk, this is apparently a silly attempt at denigration:
“You will know, Technicolour, that the the Soviet Bolshevik régime judged – and dealt with – people on a class basis.
This is probably why Goss thinks as he does, by entities.”
I know the former, having read a bit about it. I don’t see the connection. I don’t see the person on this board known as John Goss performing any role, other than as opposition, to the Soviet ‘purges’.
“I like not the smell of this authority.” Proctor, from Arthur Miller’s The Crucible.
I feel much the same when it comes to recent denunciations here.
Mistress Goss was apprehended forthwith, and a most meticulous examination made by one who had for many years known the devil’s marks. She was found to have three teats about her, which honest women have not. Yea, the Devil’s marks, as plain as stone. Presently she was brought before the Justice and kept from sleep two or three nights, all the time did she call out for her familiars, which, the fourth night, manifested as hares, cats, and like shapes. There being ten of us in the room plainly testifieth that such witchcraft and sorcery was done.
She was then taken to the great river near the town, to see whether she could sink under water; her legs being tied, she was put in, and though she did endeavour to the uttermost (by her hands) to get herself under, yet she could not, but would lie upon her back, and did swim like a piece of cork. Thus was diabolical whichery verily proven and the hag dispatched without further ado.
Technicolour
“Since I’m here, Habbakuk, this is apparently a silly attempt at denigration:
“You will know, Technicolour, that the the Soviet Bolshevik régime judged – and dealt with – people on a class basis.
This is probably why Goss thinks as he does, by entities.”
I know the former, having read a bit about it. I don’t see the connection”
___________________
The connection seems reasonably clear to me.
1/. John Goss has amply demonstrated over time his sympathy for the Soviet system of governance both by direct reference and by implication.
2/. The post-1917 Bolshevik régime took as an article of faith, and operated through, the elimination of classes (eg the bourgeoisie, the kulaks, etc…).
3/. You have yourself recognized – and reacted against – Mr Goss’s a contrario lumping together of all Jewish people (cf for instance your post at 16h03 yesterday, where you write “As it is, I see your phrase “Not all Jewish people are bad” still stands. Have you asked yourself yet what kind of person would say “Not all Muslim people are bad”, or “Not all Irish people are bad”?. Said without humour, it is either hysterically crass, or outrageous in its implication that while ‘not all’ of ‘them’ are bad, most are.”.
4/. A lumping together similar to the lumping together of all individuals belonging to the bourgeois or kulak classes.
More of the same from the BBC this morning with Regev and Erekat. Humphreys set the agenda at the outset by saying to Erekat – Some are saying that the Palestinians do not want a peace deal. I switched off so cannot say what followed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b042cq7z
Twitter
BBC Radio 4 Today @BBCr4today
Israeli govt ‘committed gravest mistake’ by suspending negotiations says Palestinian Authority negotiator Saeb Erekat #r4today
BBC Radio 4 Today @BBCr4today
Palestinian Authority can’t come to us and say they want peace if they form alliance with Hamas, says Israeli govt spokesman Mark Regev
What tragedy next for the benighted people in Afghanistan?
It is being said that as many as 2,000 people are dead.
Afghanistan landslide: Rescuers search for missing
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27265516
I have said before that Mr Goss has no shame – I’m afraid his comments on this thread just add further support to my view.
Technicolour, I apologise for an inappropriate use of words, though plead having rushed out the comment as I do with other comments the cause perhaps of other errors and possible misinterpretions.
I have been tried and found guilty from a photograph taken on Brighton beach in 1638 which unfortunately revealed a third nipple, referred to unkindly as “the pig’s nipple m’lord” hung low beneath my bikini top. I have covered up ever since then and the pig is dead. It is a photograph which, like Tony Blair (second photo in link below), I would not care if I never saw again.
http://johngossip.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/what-w-stands-for.html
As to floating when I should have sank I also plead guilty and have long thought the mushy peas were more guilty than me. 🙂
Too busy to take on the split personality today.
RD, before I go you keep talking about me having no shame, you, who will not answer Sofia’s question:
“RD/ELSO etc
Since you brought up your family links to Russia I’ll ask you again. You disappeared last time I asked.
How do you explain the differing outcomes in terms of numbers of dead and injured, amounts of high explosives detonated and subsequent social order and cost to their own tax-payers when the US helps to spread democracy and bring freedom in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or any of the dozens of other lucky countries that have rerceived the gift of US help compared to the disgraceful and illegal, bloodless “Russian Invasion” of Crimea?”
You who appear, like Jekyll and Hyde, in one guise during the day, another at night. And you have the audacity and common indecency of accusing me of having no shame. Tut, tut, tut!
RD, before I go you keep talking about me having no shame, you, who will not answer Sofia’s question:
I have already – see the thread where it was asked, and at least have the decency to check before throwing out your accusations.
I am still awaiting a response to my even earlier questions to you – I think that makes it the 7th request.
RD.
I have already”
I must have missed your reply. I’d love to read it. Could you remind me where it is. Thanks.
I repeat
“I have already – see the thread where it was asked.”
Resident Dissident 3 May, 2014 – 11:06 am
If it’s the question I think you mean I answered it after the first time of asking. Check back.