The number of people still prepared to defend the Iraq War in public is tiny. The interesting thing is the very strong correlation between those people, and those prepared to pretend to give credence to the farcical sexual allegations about Julian Assange. Zoe Williams Guardian piece about what a jolly good chap Blair is I find breathtaking. War crimes like Blair’s result in terrible anguish for millions. I am prepared for purposes of argument to believe that Williams’ anguish for female victims of crime is genuine; why she can’t extend that to the tens of thousands of women who were raped because of Blair’s Iraq War, or had the still worse agony of seeing their children killed and mutilated I don’t know. Nick Cohen is just very, very sad. I just hold up these two in the hope that those deceived by feminist political correctness into following their lead against Assange will see to what they are subscribing.
Rather a side issue, but even if we accept Zoe Williams view that dead Iraqi children don’t matter, she appears not to have noticed that Blair introduced tuition fees, academies, kick-started NHS privatization, allowed the banksters’ bonanza leading to worldwide economic crash and oversaw the greatest widening of the gap between rich and poor in British history.
Hurby
“Meanwhile, in the real world, people are buying Renmimbi.”
_________________
Well, personally I haven’t yet met anyone who is, but never mind. Are you?
******************
La vita è bella, life is good!
“I think Geldof knowingly and deliberately created his Live 8 event to relieve pressure on Blair and Bush at the G8 summit.”
Correct.
Poverty is intrinsic to the western system of exploitation.
Make poverty history and you make the Washington Consensus history too.
Geldof channelled the genuine and growing revulsion of people against poverty into something elites could accept.
Fine words but no change.
Ba’al Zevul
“Could we have a full biography of your father so that we can all play the game of visiting the sons of the father on the child? You really are incorrigible. (@ Mary)
Personal attack.
“Blair killed my association with the Labour Party.”
Yes he was rather good at clearing out the infiltrators. (@JG)
Personal attack.”
___________________
Not at all. The first response is a legitimate rejoinder ( of methodological intent) to a poster who appears to set great store by what sort of ancestors people in the public sphere have; in her case, Jewish ancestors). The second response makes a political point, namely that Blair rid the Labour party of its far-left infiltrators, thereby completing a process started by Clement Atlee.
If the Mods should suppress something, it should be the constant references to people’s Jewish ancestors.
Additionally, the efforts to make sex slaves of their children is a violation of the Rule of Law; a sacrosanct policy created for the other guy and not for personal consumption.
It’s much better to hide one’s fetishes from behind holy vestments which no one would dare reveal because it would bring reproach on a major institution necessary for society’s well-being.
Constant references against which you have never once raised your otherwise over-loud voice, Ba’al Zevul.
John Goss:
Stalin is generally supposed to have been responsible for around 20 million deaths either through direct executions, ‘reforms’ of agriculture on a massive scale in the thirties which collectivised agriculture, the sending of millions to Siberia. For instance his own heroic soldiers who suffered untold miseries fighting the Germans in the Second World War were in huge numbers rewarded on their return with what was often a one way ticket to Siberia because Stalin was afraid they might have been corrupted on their trip to Europe.
He even had a considerable number of his own family executed. Shortly before the Second World War he efficiently purged his senior military commanders.
And here are some more figures just in on Iraqi deaths. Where are yours ESLO?
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq
Clark
“ESLO, 1:22 pm
“Yes he was rather good at clearing out the infiltrators.”
As, I believe, was Stalin.”
_______________________
Invalid comparison, displaying little sense of history.
1/. It is Stalin who should, in fact, be considered as an infiltrator if we are to judge by his systematic rooting out and elimination, in the 1930s, of almost all the old Bolsheviks.
2/. Various leaders of the Labour party, starting put with Clement Atlee, have declared membership of far-left parties, organisations and groupings incompatible with membership of the Labour Party. Members of those parties, etc, whether declares or (more usually) covert, were the infiltrators.
Hope you understood that, ‘cos I can’t be arsed to explain further. Cheers!
“Well, personally I haven’t yet met anyone who is, but never mind.”
You’ve discussed it. That’s good.
So they’ve other strategies for when USD collapses.
Or they’re skint.
Which is it?
Turkey tries to roast a Hersh for Sader.
http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2014/04/09/seymour-hersh-debunked-by-turkey-us
A. Node:
I have read your comments, and those of Brian Fujisan on the previous thread. In general I am not an expert on this field, it is not something I have gone out of my way to research.
But to say as Herbie does above of Geldof: ‘Fine words but no change’ is clearly not true. You might not like the change, but change there has been.
Yes there has been massive investment in the third world by western agencies and global companies, yes it has often been their agenda which is dominant, but there has been change, and there have been jobs created on a massive scale.
The levels of poverty in ‘the third world’ bear no comparison, I don’t think, to what they were say forty years ago. Some of this has to be down to western investment and cancellation of debt, even if the investment is skewed.
I felt unhappy in 2005, I remember feeling that Geldof’s timing was all wrong, but in general I am not sure that his legacy is a negative one, and in your earlier post which you link to, with respect, you do not produce much hard evidence.
BrianFujisan does make a case against Bono, mostly on the subject of western dictation of terms of investment, but thats Bono not Geldof.
Conjunction
“We all know aid has limited value in itself but we should be discerning in criticising people like Geldof I think.”
I bow to your reasoned and informed opinion- pretty well confirmed by this:
http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2013/05/make-poverty-history-and-g8-promises-was-it-all-really-worth-it
Public pressure certainly needs to coalesce around well-known figures, and I suppose they are necessary. Mean-minded caveat; they don’t actually do the work.
My sleuth-like brain asks a question. Suddenly, unless others know differently, a character called Conjunction appears on the blog. This is the day after I get some release from Habbabkuk using Habbabreak. This Conjunction speaks in the same voice as Habbabkuk, with praise for Resident Dissident and an eagerness to answer comments aimed at ESLO with unsubstantiated figures, much in the way Habbabkuk does. Is Conjunction the latest manifestation of Habbabkuk?
A simple Yes from regular comment-makers will suffice. Or even No if that’s what you really think.
Not sure why you’re getting at Mary taking an interest in genealogies, habby.
I seem to remember that elites put great store by such measures.
Breeding, they called it. Drew up big long family trees, with crests rampant and everything.
Apart from a brief period during the post war period when it became rather unfashionable, it’s now happily all back in vogue again.
There’s barely an area of elite life these days where “aristocracy” isn’t thriving.
They’re all very proud to be special, and indeed owe their position in life to it.
More elite family trees, please.
Bono, and ostensibly Geldof, are like any other politician who gets caught up in the net of populism and finance. Becoming mainstream is the Obama effect.
You have to go along to get along. When those parameters have already been established, it’s nearly impossible to effect change at all, and so minor victories on the perimeter of change are seen as good, rather than perfect.
So if you have an intervention on a loved one a little too into his/her cups, just remember it’s ok to enable them to drink less rather than abstain completely.
Hurby
““Well, personally I haven’t yet met anyone who is, but never mind.”
You’ve discussed it. That’s good.
So they’ve other strategies for when USD collapses.
Or they’re skint.
Which is it?”
__________________
Difference between the verbs “to meet” and “to discuss”, Hurby?
Anyway : are you putting your money where your mouth is and buying the Chinese currency? Why so coy?
Nick Cohen:
The leaders of political cults, like their religious counterparts, increase their power by fostering paranoia. Members can trust no one outside the party, especially the police and judiciary. The SWP says that Comrade Delta’s alleged victim was free to go to the police and chose not to, but party dogma insists that justice is impossible in bourgeois courts. Only when it’s too late do women learn that the alternative disciplinary system of Marxist-Leninists exists to control them and let the leaders do as they please. The parallels with the Catholic church are too obvious for me to labour.
Ditto: political Islam
Feminist political correctness = sexual politics = all politics = lying. What has also reached my attention recently is that Magic is a form of private/ sexual politics which is practised inside Islam for the same evil purposes as political extremism is practised inside Islam. The worst aspects of Salafist jihadism and offshoots of manipulative Sufism converge into cult bullying and mental/ spiritual breakdown.
What I find curious is that Craig can see and feel the pain from the black arts of feminism, whose mill western man has been ground down by since the onset of Thatcherism, but he does not see the black arts of Monarch brainwashing that appear to have touched the upbringing of Julian assange, which to me are parts of one and the same thing,viz: sexual politics/ lying/ transfer of power from the individual to New world order bullying .
Mr Goss
“My sleuth-like brain asks a question.”
_______________
Not sleuth-like and even less a brain. But I’ll give you Clouseau if you like.
But no matter, the answer is no. Not that I – or probably Conjunction – could care less what you think. Do get it into your skull that large numbers of people disagree with you and occasionally feel moved to let you know.
Put it down to coincidence – the same coincidence that, on Craig’s Ukraine/Russia/rasPutin threads, saw the appearance of a large number of handles unseen before and after. Comments on that?
Can one man fight effectively within existing systems?
Cesar Chavez; not perfect but also not a tool.
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2014/04/14/140414crat_atlarge_heller
“Chavez’s own will was mammoth, and his battle against agribusiness lasted weeks, then months, then years. The goal, he said, was to cost growers fifty dollars for each dollar spent on the strike. Ostensibly, field workers were pushing for better wages and treatment. But they also fought for recognition of Chavez’s new field-labor union, now called the United Farm Workers, and the political authority of a marginalized demographic. The strike, which began and was headquartered in Delano, a San Joaquin Valley town that lay at the heart of table-grape production, grew to represent the fate of a new national cause.”
Habbabkuk; “Ah well, if that’s what the Telegraph says, it must be right, eh?”
It’s odds on even I reckon as to whetever your obtuseness is deliberate or not; you stated with all your non-expertise in Iraqi matters, that the child marriage act “may in fact never become law”, whereas even the pro-war & Blair friendly Telegraph, who presumeably had consulted with people more knowledgeable in this matter than yourself, have concluded this it “looks likely to pass”, a complete polar opposite to your baseless assertion.
“Why do you think I think it’s OK (links, please!), and why do you seem to think it is?”
Read my Post again; note that it is two parts; note that the first part was addressed directly to you; note that the second part starts with the words, “Re topic of thread, this comment seems to appropriate”
As I believe I have previously receommended to you, adult classes in basic English comprehension skills, will save you posting even more superfluous comments than you already do.
Mr Goss
I should have said “most people”, not “large numbers of people”.
BTW, how’s your “Left Unity” Party getting along? Membership exploding?
Deleting Mods/ Vermicious knids of all kninds, Please note: not a Z in sight. Pretending to be zzzzzing. Wink, wink!?!
Macky
“Habbabkuk; “Ah well, if that’s what the Telegraph says, it must be right, eh?”
It’s odds on even I reckon as to whetever your obtuseness is deliberate or not; you stated with all your non-expertise in Iraqi matters, that the child marriage act “may in fact never become law”, whereas even the pro-war & Blair friendly Telegraph, who presumeably had consulted with people more knowledgeable in this matter than yourself, have concluded this it “looks likely to pass”, a complete polar opposite to your baseless assertion.”
________________________
Well, let’s wait and see , shall we, Macky.
But i have a pretty goos track record in these things: no World War 3 starting in Syria, former President Chavez not assassinated by injection of a lethal cancer virus, Malaysian airliner not hijacked to Diego Garcia, AS Victoria Nuland didn’t appoint the new Ukraine govt, etc, etc – the list is long!
Ba’al Zevul
You’re easily impressed.
=========================
Habby
How would you know what people you meet are doing with their money unless you’d discussed it with them?
More generally, do you think that USD will collapse, and what impact will that have on GBP and EUR?
Do these people you meet think that USD will collapse, or do they expect things to just keep on going as they are?
” how’s your “Left Unity” Party getting along? Membership exploding?”
Even a blind sow finds the occasional truffle.
It’s true that the Left is a quagmire of qualitative opinion whose power is limited by the very independent thinking that makes sounds of reform a dissonant incoherence. If lefties could meld with conservative ‘me too’ intellect and create alliances out of differences, the political landscape would benefit greatly.
Ben; “Turkey tries to roast a Hersh for Sader”
Here’s a couple of interesting links in the aftermath of the Hersh article;
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1396964089.html
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/04/08/296525/
John Goss
Earlier I suggested that I was paranoid. However I think I got the wrong guy.
For what its worth, as I said on the earlier occasion you refer to, I have contributed to this blog occasionally for many years, since some time before you ever did.
However I do beg your pardon for not recognising that this blog was really a private conversation between you and ESLO.
In the meantime why not do a little light research into comrade Stalin and find out what everyone else knows for yourself?
Macky; The fact that NYT and WaPO are silent about the Hersh piece….telling.
Conjunction; Is this a new ‘nic’? If not, what name was used. Be careful not to reveal any Tells.
“In the meantime why not do a little light research into comrade Stalin and find out what everyone else knows for yourself?”
This is a familiar tone.
Conjunction
Stalin was definitely a baddie, but who funded him.
Who made it all possible.
And were they by any chance related to those who cleaned the new world of all those pesky natives.
Chomsky and others have come up with a figure of around 60,000,000 killed since only WWII, by the West.