From a British diplomatic source I learn that Britain has lobbied the United States against the publication of the Senate Intelligence Committee report on torture and extraordinary rendition. The lobbying has been carried out “at all levels” – White House, State Department and CIA. The British have argued that at the very least the report must be emasculated before publication.
The British argument is that in a number of court cases including the Belhadj case, the British government has successfully blocked legal action by victims on the grounds that this would weaken the US/UK intelligence relationship and thus vitally damage national security, by revealing facts the American intelligence service wish hidden. [We will leave aside for the moment the utter shame of our servile groveling judges accepting such an argument]. The British Government are now pointing out to the Americans that this argument could be fatally weakened if major detail of the full horror and scope of torture and extraordinary rendition is revealed by the Senate Intelligence Committee. The argument runs that this could in turn lead to further revelations in the courts and block the major defence against prosecutions of Blair, Straw and Dearlove, among others, potentially unleashing a transatlantic wave of judicial activism.
The unabashed collusion of two torturing security states in concealing the truth of their despicable acts – including complicity in the torture of women and minors – and blocking criminal prosecution of the guilty is a sign of how low public ethics have sunk. Fortunately there are still a few people in the British Foreign Office disgusted enough to leak it.
Jives Perhaps it is a surfeit of C2H5OH that produces the late night mass t—-l postings!
~~~
Meanwhile the Heir to Blair does God again in an attempt to recover his diminishing electorate.
David Cameron puts God back into politics
British Christians should be unashamedly ‘evangelical’, says David Cameron, as he speaks of the ‘healing power’ of faith in his own life http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10771339/David-Cameron-puts-God-back-into-politics.html
‘His comments amount to an olive branch to the churches in the wake of rows over issues such as welfare cuts and gay marriage. His Government has also been accused of failing to stand up for Christians.’
Ba’al; “Macky – Not saying I agree with everything this man says, but just to give the other side of Church – State relations in Russia, apropos the (Russian Ortho) Saker blog”
Well my impression on reading his stuff, is much like yours & A Node’s, ie, he is as nutty as a fruitcake; I thought it would be rather fitting to see what Saker himself would have to say about his fellow Russian’s writing , so I asked him, and here’s the reply;
“LOL! Whoever wrote that knows less about Russia than Bart Simpson or, alternatively, is a crazed russophobe with not an ounce of honesty left in him. You can safely disregard anything this character has to say about Russia. Besides, if the guy knew anything at all he would not have to pepper an article about Putin with Tsars, Rasputin, Holy Russia or this pearl “old imperial chauvinism underpinned by the Third Rome effluvia”.
I just took a quick look at his site and there is no way he is just an ignorant Bart Simpson, which leaves option 2: he is the kind of folks who emigrated from the USSR in the 1970 and who made their entire career of the russophobia. It’s the kind of people I try to stay away from and I mean that, I always try to flush my mental toilet afterwards.
How is this title (of one of his articles): “Putin: KGB Gang$ta for Life”? Putin was in the foreign intelligence service, just like Papa Bush, but I doubt that folks like this Boot (probably a made-ip name), would write that about him,
Forget this steaming pile of shit is my best advice!”
A clarifying correction to my “one of the least moderated blogs I have encountered yet” iro the Vineyardsaker blog, because in fact pre-moderation is in effect ! What I really meant is that I’ve seen strong challenging views to his opinion pieces, and that I have never seen anybody moaning about any other person being banned.
Also I came across this, which adds interesting bio bits about Saker himself;
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2014/04/who-is-saker.html
@A Node
Only you could take an article that puts Putin at the top of a list of world leaders by wealth and decide it says he isn’t.
RD / ELSO.
I doubted your assertion that the Russian army had taken over Eastern Ukraine.
Then I found this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NJ4ffOWmZpM#t=0
(Not for the squeamish.)
Norfolk county council is featured in this weeks Private Eye under rotten boroughs, please find it yourselfs, at least that would resemble some activity.
I hade enough of rattling vages and reactionary sodding talk, disseminating information so that some f…wit can take the piss out of you for it here, a person who ius essentially leaderless, always on the lookout for new leaders they can latch on to, providing they fit the perfect ideals demanded.
As usual I will try and help to get some Independent candidate, this time of my own choice, to get elected, because I want change. UKIP’s support shows that many traditional party addicts are now fed up with party politics, but there is nothing there for them but an apathetic public screaming for change, no takers, tacklers or new ideas.
Shall leave you to the daily argy bargeying, blogging I believe its called.
@Brian Fujisan
Shall see you this year, not sure when shall let you know here or on Squonk.
take care all, I’m just too busy for……..
Herbie
“Habby says of my claim that “Putin is in the mould of DeGaulle or Nasser etc,…” in advocating a multipolar world rather than a unipolar one:
“Not very encouraging models, I’d say, given the short-livedness of their “achievements” and the mess their countries are in.”
They were early adopters. The later models are much more refined, reflective.”
_________________
Examples, please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=
“You do understand that “the mess their countries are in.” is a direct result of their desire for independent development having been stymied by the West.”
________________
Facile. Herbie vaunts Nasser and De Gaulle, and then when I point to their singular lack of success, does a reverse ferret and says ““the mess their countries are in.” is a direct result of their desire for independent development having been stymied by the West.”. Nit very convincing as an argument. For Herbie, always on the look out for new heroes, paradise always seems to be just around the corner.
Coming to this a bit late, but to respond to Craig’s original post:
The shocking bit is that it’s Obama defending actions taken by Bush’s administration and Cameron defending stuff done under Blair. What is the point of having an opposition and different parties of government if they are all on the same side? And it’s certainly not our side or they’d fess up and explain why whatever was done was so obviously in everybody’s best interests and deserves such cross-party support.
@DavidH
The point is that to do otherwise would be seen by many as unpatriotic and lose a lot of votes.
Most people will defend their country on international matters whether it is right or wrong.
The tragic loss of life on the now sunken S Korean ship Sewolss has happened close to its intended destination of the island of Jeju, a world heritage site.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27056653
That fact has not prevented the US from destroying some of its beauty for a naval base with the cooperation of a servile S Korean government.
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/19518-jeju-island-tragic-destruction-of-pristine-marine-area-for-another-naval-base-for-the-us-missile-defense-system
Note that some of the original protesters have been imprisoned.
s/be Sewol Owned by Chonghaejin Marine Co Ltd since October 2012
http://www.krs.co.kr/eng/custom/search/c_search_infoship_view.aspx?ClassNo=8955299
Quote “assertion that the Russian army had taken over Eastern Ukraine” 🙂
now mainstream media are reporting the recent secret CIA ‘inspiration’ in Kiev
http://www.msnbc.com/all/why-was-cia-chief-kiev
was he there to take-over western Ukraine or was he there to establish a new torture base?
whilst we’re checking out the MSM – there’s a socio-scientific analysis of an Oligarch driven country – reported here in the Torygraph
Personally I wouldn’t have guessed that – this country where positions of powerful interest groups are “not substantially correlated with the preferences of average citizens”, does seem to have some issues with its worldwide policies not being substantially correlated with the preferences of worldwide citizens? At least we’re only talking about a “Civil Oligarchy”[Winters]
I have no opinions on this developing situation – I am reading widely – whilst it is still possible
fred 16 Apr, 2014 – 6:27 pm
“Putin is now the world’s richest head of state, worth between $40 and $70 billion.”
A Node 17 Apr, 2014 – 12:56 am
“I’m hoping you’re just being mischievous with this comment, Fred.”
fred 17 Apr, 2014 – 8:35 am
“Only you could take an article that puts Putin at the top of a list of world leaders by wealth and decide it says he isn’t.”
A Node now
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and presume that you’ve realised you were being a gullible fool by believing the Huffington Post article, but rather than take the graceful way out that I offered you, you’ve decided to bluster.
I’m quite willing to discuss this. Perhaps we could start by you addressing the points I made instead of being insulting.
@A Node
I aint in any doubts at all shit for brains, you are one of them dumb retards that will just believe whatever suits you regardless.
So go fuck yourself.
Fred; “Most people will defend their country on international matters whether it is right or wrong.”
If turning a blind eye to illegal wars, mass murder, inhuman crimes, as well as financial & human right crimes at the expenses of the ordinary citizen, can be classed as “defending their country”, then you may have a point, but the real answer is that it is a logical fallacy to have expected either Obama or Cameron to prosecute their predecessors, as they would never have got elected if they had even hinted at such a thing, as that is not how our respective “democracies” work ! I remember the Bush regime making very sure that Obama was very clear on this, long before he actually become President.
fred 17 Apr, 2014 – 11:37 am
…. counts to ten …. sighs …. moves on.
Macky
“I remember the Bush regime making very sure that Obama was very clear on this, long before he actually become President.”
__________________
Do you have any links/sources to confirm your memory? Thanks.
@Macky
It’s just the way people’s minds work. If somebody gets’ caught with a kilo of cocaine in Manchester then they are evil dope fiends and the government should lock them up and throw away the key. If they get caught with a kilo of cocaine in South America then they are victims and the government should be getting them out of there.
For most people their country is like family, nobody wants to accept that their son is the kind of kid they don’t let him play out with. Cognitive dissonance kicks in.
@A Node
Look I don’t have any sort of an agenda here. I had recently read the Huffington Post article because it was linked to from the Tom Watson twitter feed, it seemed relevant to the discussion so I posted it.
If you don’t want to believe it don’t but don’t go calling me names to try and discredit it.
I understand what you are saying, Fred, and of course people will protect members of their family for minor misdemeanours. This is a natural and reasonable tradition.
However, if that family member commits a heinous crime, such as “murder most foul”, there are few families who wouldn’t turn them in as a matter of decency, unless they were in fear of their own neck. Indeed, the law of the land would expect them to. I’d have thought that in a “mature democracy” there would be procedures that could be invoked, if the betrayal of expected values at a national level goes off the scale.
It can’t be a proper democracy unless that is the case.
Prince Bandar led the Saudi financial support for the miltary coup against Muhammad Mursi. That would be the equivalent of Cameron locking up Blair. Are there occasions when principles come before politics in Islam, while outside Islam politics always come before principles. The principle in question being the use of US supplied spying technology to allow the Mursi government to make problems for ideological opponents rather than security threats.
“However, if that family member commits a heinous crime, such as “murder most foul”, there are few families who wouldn’t turn them in as a matter of decency, unless they were in fear of their own neck. Indeed, the law of the land would expect them to. I’d have thought that in a “mature democracy” there would be procedures that could be invoked, if the betrayal of expected values at a national level goes off the scale.”
That is logic, there isn’t anything logical about patriotism.
The law does recognise the principle to some extent, a wife can’t be made to testify against her husband in most cases.
Fred; “there isn’t anything logical about patriotism”
How can crimes committed against one own citizens, & in the US case, against the very Constitution, be considered as “patriotism”, especially when the clear objective is personal financial enrichment ?
“The Federation Council [upper house of parliament] granted the president the right to use military force in Ukraine. I really hope that I do not have to exercise that right and that we are able to solve all today’s pressing issues via political and diplomatic means,” Mr Putin said.
Sod international law – its the Russian Federation Council that counts.
The Russian Federation Council is of course very much Putin’s creature especially given that his view of federalism usually extends to extensive interference in the regional governments that are meant to appoint members to the Federation Council. Good to see that the old Leninist principles of “democratic” centralism are alive and well.
“How can crimes committed against one own citizens, & in the US case, against the very Constitution, be considered as “patriotism”, especially when the clear objective is personal financial enrichment ?”
I once saw an interview with John Wayne where he was asked his opinion on the slave trade and the discrimination against the African American.
“Would any of them be better off if they had stayed in Africa?” he said.
Don’t underestimate cognitive dissonance, it can justify anything.
Fred; “Don’t underestimate cognitive dissonance, it can justify anything”
For sure, but anybody offering irrationality & hypocrisy, cannot then complain if these factors are highlighted, with the resulting exposure of their povs as bogus & full of lies; the trouble is that when these people do get into power, they don’t complain, instead to misquote, “when I hear the word intellectual, I reach for my pistol”, or these days they simply frame you for some decades in jail.
“@A Node
Look I don’t have any sort of an agenda here. I had recently read the Huffington Post article because it was linked to from the Tom Watson twitter feed, it seemed relevant to the discussion so I posted it.
If you don’t want to believe it don’t but don’t go calling me names to try and discredit it.”
Thank you.
And all I did was point out that the claim contradicts itself.
The Huffington Post claimed Putin was the world’s richest leader, and ‘justified’ their choice thus:
“Putin is believed to be worth between $40 and $70 billion, Bloomberg notes.”
The link takes you to a Bloomberg article which explains that the claim is rubbish.
@A Node
Besides assigning ulterior motives to me for posting it then calling me a gullible fool for believing it you mean.
If you don’t want to believe it don’t, fine by me.
Fred,
Do you believe that Putin is the world’s richest leader?
Good news.
BREAKING NEWS:Caroline Lucas MP found not guilty of public order offence along with four others after anti-fracking protests in W Sussex
So Heir to Blair can frack off.
Please sign this if you agree.
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/stop-the-shale-gas-extraction-by-fracking