Brazilian crowd whiter than a Broederbond meeting. Hard to enjoy the match without thinking of the 25 billion dollars squandered on the tournament by the Brazilian government – and plainly attendance is restricted to rich white people.
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I’m sorry about Dad. It’s so embarrassing!
Can’t hear him at all Sofia. I’ve got my e-arplugs (here – very reasonable – https://greasyfork.org/scripts/246-habbabreak ). They block out the old cat next door, too – fights all night and would come and crap in the veg plot if I hadn’t connected the leeks to the mains. But I remember what it used to be like.
Inclusive John seems to be the term stated to set the dichotomy.
This article opens up the argument to less inclusive ideals of peace and stability or at least a revision on protocols that is corporate expansion through destructive economic growth.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/11/10/edited-by-alexander-cockburn-and-jeffrey-st-clair/
This link from Herbie is interesting to those with a fertile imagination beyond that of the global representation that is western man.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j_gj1uZ6194
Resident Dissident: “And what do you mean exactly by direct democracy?”
As Sophia pointed out, the answer to your question is in the first sentence of my link.
Since you like things spelled out for you, I will clarify that the country using direct democracy which “led to such unheard of improvements in standards of health, education, wealth and gender equality, housing, employment, national prosperity, infrastructure, and general standard of living …” was Libya. The West ‘liberated’ the Syrian people from that system. In your opinion, has Libya’s standard of living improved or declined as a result?
If you feel that Libya hasn’t yet had time to enjoy the benefits of Western-style democracy, please list those that have accrued to Afghanistan and Iraq.
” the country using direct democracy which “led to such unheard of improvements in standards of health, education, wealth and gender equality, housing, employment, national prosperity, infrastructure, and general standard of living …” was Libya ”
Have you always been so naive? I know of some Nigerian businessmen who would love to talk to you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439×2179639
I’d like to see a link describing these near Utopian conditions in Libya that can be reliably dated to before Gaddafis fall.
Kempe: “I’d like to see a link describing these near Utopian conditions in Libya that can be reliably dated to before Gaddafis fall.”
Which are you disputing?
I thought you would like the chance of listening to the mellifluous tones of Yuval Steinitz, Israeli Minister of Intelligence, Minister of International Relations and Minister of Strategic Affairs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuval_Steinitz
This smiler is one of the many at the centre of the web. He was asked what the opinion of ‘Israel’ was about Isis, Iran and Iraq. Great irony but mostly gross hypocrisy (especially re Iran’s ‘nuclear programme’ given that his entity did more than light the fuse.
ZBC Radio 4 Today http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b046ntnx 1hr.09mins in for 6 mins. Don’t know where Mr Regev has gone. Perhaps he’s out for the day with Sofia’s Dad.
Impeachment
By John Rentoul
Wednesday, 18 June 2014
I was going to explain why Sir Peter Tapsell, the longest-serving MP, had shown that neither length of service nor a grand manner is a guarantee of good sense. He asked David Cameron at Prime Minister’s Questions:
‘Is he aware of the growing sentiment that, as the publication of the Chilcot report is being so long delayed, the ancient, but still existing, power of backbenchers to commence the procedures of impeachment should now be activated to bring Mr Tony Blair to account for allegedly misleading the House on the necessity of the invasion of Iraq in 2003?’
It is odd, just as it was in Simon Heffer’s case, that a traditionalist should fall for a device that has mainly been promoted by people who have no idea what the word means but who confuse it with the constitutional procedure in the United States. Even then it is being confused with a confusion, because many people, even many Americans, think impeachment means sacking a president who has committed a crime. I could remind them that to impeach means to charge and that Bill Clinton was impeached but acquitted.
I could remind Sir Peter that the parliamentary procedure has been in effect obsolete since 1867. (Thanks to Malcolm Redfellow.)
I could say that it is hardly to Sir Peter’s credit, or Heffer’s, or Boris Johnson’s (Boris, incidentally, who gave a stirring speech in the House on the eve of military action castigating Blair for wasting time at the UN) that they should go along with a Plaid Cymru publicity stunt.
I could point out that all these puffed-up legalisms – war criminal, The Hague, malfeasance in public office, war of aggression, high crimes and misdemeanours – are fancy ways of saying, “I didn’t agree with the war.”
But I’ve done it a hundred times before, and what is the point?
~~~
Short and sweet from the BLiar biographer. His defence of his patron is to rubbish Tapsell. You can tell he can’t pull anything better to say than this out of his handbag.
I don’t think representative democracy has been tried; the technology to make it possible is too recent. I certainly don’t see Libya as being its exemplar – have I misunderstood the argument? The driving force behind the societal improvements we were so happy to help destroy was the shrewdly-negotiated oil contract.
Kempe, will this do for starters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUgVlMDbyl4
It is the irrigation underground river scheme of Muammur Gadaffi. But of course when some people see things with their own eyes they still don’t believe. “Blessed are they . . .”
Of course that was before NATO bombed the shit out of it.
“I will clarify that the country using direct democracy which “led to such unheard of improvements in standards of health, education, wealth and gender equality, housing, employment, national prosperity, infrastructure, and general standard of living …” was Libya.”
Comedy hour, I presume. But I suppose Ghadaffi was one of the unwashed sitting in tents referred to by RD above.
Ba’al Zevul (Armageddon My Gun) 19 Jun, 2014 – 1:38 pm
“I don’t think representative democracy has been tried”
I’m confused. Do you mean “I don’t think direct democracy has been tried”?
If so, a form of it was practised by Libya called “Jamahiriya” (state of the masses).
In practice, the government was organized into “people’s committees”, which were local representatives. Each people’s committee reported to the General People’s Committee, which was Gaddafi’s cabinet, with Gaddafi as the General Secretary and the primary decision maker.
The people’s committees consisted of local people from each municipality who were elected into the position and served a three year term. This went through several different variations and forms, with the people’s committees being formed at different levels, but ultimately the decision was to leave them at the municipality level.
To be clear, I don’t believe it is by any means a perfect system of government. In our Western society, it would invest a lot of power in the hands of the opinion formers, ie the media, but there again, they already have that power. Nonetheless, it would be far better than what we have now. For example, I don’t believe we would have gone to war with Iraq if the general population voted on it.
“Comedy hour, I presume. But I suppose Ghadaffi was one of the unwashed sitting in tents referred to by RD above.”
How lovely to see ESLO referring to himself in the guise of RD during his lunch hour. Tonight it will be back to RD again. You should have seen the link I just posted for Kempe. But Libya was a lot more progressive than that. The world could learn from it, but won’t.
Here are 16 things before NATO liberated Libya that were Utopian. The last is the underground irrigation and water-supply system linked in my last but one comment.
http://disinfo.com/2011/10/16-things-libya-will-never-see-again/
….. so to summerise the debate so far ……
Resident Dissident throws out a general invitation to those who criticise Western democracy to suggest an alternative.
I did so, politely.
Res Diss replies: “….Or sitting unwashed in a tent for many weeks claiming that you are part of the 99%?”
Kempe replies: “Have you always been so naive? I know of some Nigerian businessmen who would love to talk to you.”
ESLO replies: “Comedy hour, I presume. But I suppose Ghadaffi was one of the unwashed sitting in tents referred to by RD above.”
Mr Goss
Two things
– stop being so ignorant – if Libya was progressive under Ghadaffi you really need to do some learning or recalibrate your moral compass
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Libya
– stop being so rude – despite your febrile imagination, I am not Resident Dissident – and no I will not justify myself to an immoral idiot such as yourself. My lunch hour is now over so goodbye.
Holy crap. http://cryptome.org/2014/06/nsa-spiegel-snowden-14-0618.pdf
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-expected-to-open-investigation-into-nsa-spying-on-merkel-a-973326.html
When NATO breaks up I guess you’ll find out the alternatives to Western so-called democracy.
NSA espionage and sabotage breach conventional international law including ICCPR Article 17 and Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations (Article 27 clause 2, Article 30 clause 2, and Article 49) particularly since the legal precedent of Questions relating to the Seizure and Detention of Certain Documents and Data (Timor-Leste v. Australia.) Under the law of diplomacy, espionage is duplicitous proceedings, which give legal grounds for suspending or invalidating international agreements. Documented NSA duplicity lets countries demand renegotiation of all sorts of agreements: trade treaties, international organization charters, even alliances.
NSA’s missions, espionage and sabotage, are treated in the Geneva Conventions as irregular methods of warfare: “une activité préjudiciable à la sécurité de l’Etat.” Then there’s NSA complicity in targeting protected persons and noncombatants for the war crimes of murder and torture in breach of international criminal law including the Geneva Convention common articles. Peacetime espionage is a breach of the principle of non-intervention, a legal absolute just like the ban on use or threat of force – coercive intervention is as serious a crime as aggression.
The prohibited nature of NSA conduct is reinforced by customary international law including UDHR Article 12 and American Declaration Article X. Offenses like espionage and sabotage that are criminalized in every jurisdiction are a natural part of customary international law and can be enforced by judgments in the International Court of Justice.
The US as a treaty party is responsible for making good NSA espionage and sabotage, including contracted wrongful acts under state direction and control. The potential restitution, compensation, satisfaction, and interest for NSA’s conduct is unknown and potentially ruinous. State responsibility principles governing reparations specifically include the moral damage of “personal affront associated with an intrusion on one’s home or private life.”
Nice work, shitheads, put that in your NSA budget.
What Brit opera fans has to say about this?
New York’s Metropolitan Opera has cancelled plans for a global simulcast to cinemas of John Adam’s ‘The Death of Klinghoffer’ amid objections from powerful Jewish-Israel lobby group Anti-Defamation League (ADL) which claims the opera glorify “Palestinian terrorism” and could stir hatred toward Jews and Israel.
http://rehmat1.com/2014/06/19/adl-the-death-of-klinghoffer-is-anti-israel/
@A Node
That’s what we used to call “mob rule”.
Dear ESLO, you need some objective source rather than Israeli Hasbara Wikipedia to learn truth behind Libya and other Muslim nation-states.
Not long ago, Libyan under Qaddafi administration were enjoying many privileges which Americans and Israelis are still dreaming; free medicare, free education, free housing, interest-free banking, etc. Then Qaddafi made a big boo-boo. He asked fellow African leaders to stop borrowing from World Bank and IMF. Qaddafi created three banking institutions with $200 billion capital to fund African nations. This ‘antisemitic’ act made Qaddafi an enemy of Israel and Jews.
http://rehmat1.com/2014/05/18/libya-and-western-humanitarian-mess/
RD; “No one managed to land a blow on you, of course ”
It’s hardly magic when a greased piglet evades capture, or when a nail fails to keep gelatin fastened to the wall.
I laughed out loud at the Freedom House US-funded ratings of freedom for Libya in the Wikipedia link, but a lot of the piece was fair. See how much freer Libya became after NATO liberated it, at least according to Freedom House. This was after Gadaffi had been murdered. Rehmat appears to have got your measure ESLO (RD).
Yes, Ukraine is a fitting partner for NATO. This short video shows how Slavyansk looked before and after they started liberating it. Similar in some ways to how Libya once looked before it was made free. So much better now ESLO (RD). Wouldn’t you agree?
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/06/16/slavyansk-before-and-after-kiev-nazi-revolution-video.html
Success for the Aboriginal people here.
19 Jun 2014
Muckaty Mob Win Battle To Stop Nuclear Dumping Ground
https://newmatilda.com/2014/06/19/muckaty-mob-win-battle-stop-nuclear-dumping-ground
and from the Melbourne lawyer in the case
Muckaty nuclear dump defeat is a huge victory for Aboriginal Australia
This has been hard fought litigation, and we are proud to have given voice to the resilience and determination of our clients
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/19/muckaty-nuclear-dump-defeat-is-a-huge-victory-for-aboriginal-australia
” free medicare, free education, free housing, interest-free banking, ”
As the link I posted up earlier says half the above statements are plainly untrue and free does not mean quality. The Bulgarain nurses who were set up as scapegoats and sentenced to death to cover up AIDS infections in a filthy Libyan hospital appear to have been forgotten.
For forty odd years now there’s been a general consensus that Gaddafi was a slightly potty dictator who ruled over a country with a terrible human rights record and a tendency to state funded terrorism (including the IRA). Since his demise however the useful idiots on the left have been fooled into re-inventing him as an all round Mr Nice-Guy and Libya as some sort of neo-socialist Utopia. The fact that there are two or more versions of how wonderful life was in Libya ought to ring alarm bells but apparently it hasn’t.
How the CIA/NATO/NWO/Lizard Men managed to stir the Libyan people to rebel against their comfortable lifestyles and turn against their generous benefactor has yet to be satisfactorily explained. Mass hypnosis by HAARP perhaps or maybe MOSSAD controlled zombies added flouride to the drinking water.
Fred: That’s what we used to call “mob rule”.
Then you were using the wrong term.
The Oxford English Dictionary defines “mob rule” thus: “Control of a political situation by those outside the conventional or lawful realm, typically involving violence and intimidation”. That’s certainly doesn’t describe direct democracy which specifically includes the mass of people within the lawful decision-making process.
Maybe you were thinking of “ochlocracy”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochlocracy
ESLO, 2:13 pm; given what happened with your and Resident Dissident’s e-mail addresses, regarding you and Resident Dissident as most likely the same person is reasonable; guessing at the odds, it seems the most likely explanation. If it really was a coincidence, that’s most unfortunate for you; you’ll just have to live with the suspicion unless you change your credentials again, secretly.
Kempe, you’re brainwashed by MSM. Even Wikipedia says:
In 2006, Amnesty International called for an independent inquiry into unconfirmed deaths that occurred in Abu Salim maximum security prison during the 1996 riot.[25] In 2009, Human Rights Watch believes that 1,270 prisoners were killed.[26][27] However, Human Rights Watch states that they were unable to independently verify the allegations. The claims cited by Human Rights Watch are based on the testimony of a single former inmate, Hussein Al Shafa’i, who stated that he did not witness a prisoner being killed: “I could not see the dead prisoners who were shot…”[28]
and
The figure of 1200 killed was arrived at by Al Shafa’i allegedly calculating the number of meals he prepared when he was working in the prison’s kitchen. At the same time, Al Shafa’i stated “I was asked by the prison guards to wash the watches that were taken from the bodies of the dead prisoners…” [28]
and:
The Libyan insurgents claimed that 1270 people were buried at a supposed mass grave they discovered.[30] However, investigators from CNN and other organizations found only what appeared to be animal bones at the site.
and:
In June 2011, a detailed investigation carried out by Amnesty International claimed that many of the allegations against Gaddafi and the Libyan state turned out to either be false or lack any credible evidence, noting that rebels at times appeared to have knowingly made false claims or manufactured evidence. According to the Amnesty investigation, the number of casualties was heavily exaggerated, some of the protesters may have been armed, “there is no proof of mass killing of civilians on the scale of Syria or Yemen,” and there is no evidence that aircraft or heavy anti-aircraft machine guns were used against crowds. It also doubted claims from the Western media that the protest movement was “entirely peaceful” and “presented no security challenge.”
Gadaffi, was doing a good job, but somebody did not like it. What if they learned in the west, where unemployment and food prices are so high, how good life could be under a better economic system. That would not look good when we see how all the wealth here is stolen by a few oligarchs, gangsters and bankers. So they went to steal Libyan wealth too. Wake up. Kempe, this is your wake up call.
Kempe, the useful idiots were Sarkozy who used him to bankroll his election campaign, and Bliar when he was lobbying for oil & arms contracts in the desert to name but a few.
Ghadafi kept the Libyan tribes in a fragile peace for over 40 years , irrigated the desert and his man made river project would’ve been a modern wonder of the world had our brave boys in the RAF not destroyed it.It was no secret that medical standards were high and that students received a free education whether home or abroad.British farmers received grants to cultivate the green and barren area’s on the edges of the cities.I’m quite sure Ghadafi was slightly potty, but his green book made sense.He spent his life trying in vain to unite the Arab speaking world and knew the evil intentions of the west only too well.Libya wasn’t no Utopia but it was 1000 times better than the way we left it.
He had outlived his usefulness and knew too much, and then wanted to introduce a gold based currency.Funny how any competitor to the Dollar meets a sticky end. Don’t tell me, that’s up there with 911,7/7,WMD in Iraq,Dodgy Dossier,and Dr Kelly and that Palestine was empty before the European Jews arrived.Just ran out of tin foil.
ESLO and RD, and it’s not just the e-mail addresses, is it? It’s also that ESLO answered as if RD, RD called himself “we”, the shared interests in Hebden Bridge and Sylvia Plath, the shared claim of a “traditional left pedigree”, the shared reverence for Orwell, the damn near identical outlooks…
“you’ll just have to live with the suspicion unless you change your credentials again, secretly.” Or pass your computer to another dissenter!
Kempe 19 Jun, 2014 – 3:13 pm
I asked you which of my claims you were disputing. None of the ones you quote are my claims. You cast vague blanket aspersions upon Gaddafi’s regime, avoiding specific instances which can be debated. You pepper your replies with insults (eg “the useful idiots”) and sarcasm (eg “Mass hypnosis by HAARP perhaps or maybe MOSSAD controlled zombies added flouride to the drinking water.”), preferring a slanging match to reasoned argument. I’ll wait to see if Resident Dissident can do any better.
While I’m waiting, I am curious as to which two of the following you imply are plainly true when you say :
” free medicare, free education, free housing, interest-free banking, ”
As the link I posted up earlier says half the above statements are plainly untrue ….