The present problems of Iraq are 100% down to our murderous invasion and occupation. The idea that further western bombing will make things better is so deluded as to beggar belief.
I was surprised to find during my Burnes research that the imperialist powers of Britain and Russia were explicitly exploiting Sunni and Shia divisions to further their conquests of Islamic lands as early as the 1830’s. This has been the major tool of the neo-con Middle Eastern gameplan for some time, spreading disunity and crippling war throughout the Middle East, with the hope that this will benefit the interests of Israel.
The peculiar result has been that in general the West is very actively supporting Sunni armies and miscellaneous forces, but in Iraq is supporting the Shia. ISIS – which is heavily backed by the Saudis, who hate al-Maliki – brings this paradox into sharp relief. The current US and UK strategy is to persuade Saudi Arabia to get ISIS to reconcentrate their efforts against Assad, on the understanding they will be allowed to keep the Sunni areas of Iraq (the old neo-con plan of dividing Iraq is firmly back on the agenda).
The BBC News this morning said that ISIS would not be capable of using the billions of dollars of sophisticated western armaments they have captured. I think you will find the Saudis remedy that one quite quickly. It is quite possible we will see some token airstrikes to kill civilians in Mosul, in order to appease Obama’s domestic backers who are never happy if Americans aren’t killing enough people, but only after agreement has been reached with the Saudis that no serious harm will be done – except to the ordinary people neither Obama, the Saudis or al-Maliki care in the least about.
Mary
“One of the trolls even queried Anne Hilditch’s name (‘if that is your name’). Who the hell do they think they are?”
_________________
I guess the troll concerned just suspected that the handle Anne Hilditch was being used by one of the bitches. 🙂
“More surmising about the identities of Peter Kemp.
I think you will find that Ba’al Zevul posts Monday to Friday.”
___________________
Oh, OK, I hadn’t realised that some surmising had already taken place.
Anyway : perhaps the Old Devil posts as Ba’al Monday to Friday and as Peter Kemp at weekends…..
Collective noun for the trolls..??
A Resjemkemhabanon of trolls,possibly.
Come on Habby,acknowledge your mistake and prove youre a “grown up”-to quote you.
You’d grow in stature in all our eyes were you to do so,i’m quite sure!
Mary
“I have given several responses concerning Global Research, listing the principals and even having to tell you that .ca at the end of url is the domain abbreviation for Canada and not California as you said. LOL”
___________________
Well, all you’ve been able to tell me is that the pretentiously-named “Global Research” outfit is run by one man and his dog (or bitch).
Quite amazing actually that a one-man show can deal with “global” matters, isn’t it?
I think I’ll stick with what Resident Dissident found out on that wiki site, it sounds bang on.
And “Professor” Michel Souris can take gardening leave.
Jives
“Come on Habby,acknowledge your mistake”
_________________
Which mistake was that, Jonathan? If it was me saying that you got excited, how on earth was that a mistake?
Habtroll,
Oh dear Habby,youre making a fool of yerself again.
Clearly you cant tell a joke from excitement.
Why am i not surprised though?
Ok,so a troll with an old string vest walks into a bookies….
Och…il let you deliver the punchline Habby….
“Rubin. Correct. It was Zalmay Khalilzad who was the Ambassador. Pity it was not made clearer below.”
_________________
Come off it, Mary, the Wikipedia article was perfectly clear, you just read it too quickly.
Nothing wrong with making a small mistake, Mary, what’s worrying is when adults refuse to accept that they have. Ask our friend “Jives”‘
And, BTW I DO know you (but you might be unaware of it)
Habtroll,
” BTW I DO know you..”
Fine line between idiot and scary stalker Hab-Turvey.
Oh look! Youre line manager is pulling his hsir out and blood is weeping from his eyes.
Any poorer/more stalkerly and you’ll be sent to remedial hasbara school.
So,according to the official 911 narrative forced upon the world by the Neocons 19 Saudi hijackers were to blame.
Naturally their fraternal placeman Dubya decided to invade Iraq because there were DEFINITELY WMD’s 45 mins away from readiness to attack the West.
And anyway,Colin Powell held up a small plastic bottle at the UN to prove it.
It’s all so clear now.
It will soon be ‘we know where you live’ and tall thugs in balaclavas will appear at the door armed with machetes. LOL.
“So,according to the official 911 narrative forced upon the world by the Neocons 19 Saudi hijackers were to blame.”
Hardly forced – any internet search will find literally thousands of alternative theories preached by all and sundry enjoying free speech in our western democracies – I suspect that what sticks in your craw is that despite all that effort people are still free to agree with the official narrative.
Mary,
Quite.
I think maintaining so many split personalities round the clock is clearly affecting our dear Habby.
His minds are clearly splintering.
Seemingly his/her/their line manager has already pencilled in ” very long break in sanitorium required immediately.”
TONY BLAIR LIES ON.
Blair’s office just said this:-
“3/4 years ago Al Qaida in Iraq was a beaten force. The country had massive challenges but had a prospect, at least, of overcoming them”
But – if I remember correctly:-
A. Pre- 2003 there was no Al Qaida in Iraq.
B. The purported reasons for the war were primarily that Saddam had WMDs and that he was an evil dictator who needed to be removed and then the world and Iraq would be better off without him.
C. So – since A proved not to be true – and all at B above has proven to be the opposite of the declared intent for the invasion of Iraq – and now over a decade later with the death toll and instability climbing and increasing – how rationally and/or honestly does Tony Blair maintain his stance that he did the right thing in having Iraq invaded?
Either I am incorrect – or – someone ( hopefully not me) needs urgently to sit with a consultant psychiatrist for immediate diagnosis and treatment.
HERE IS A PRETTY CLEAR ANALYSIS OF WHAT IS TRANSPIRING IN IRAQ AND THE BROADER ME:-
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-destruction-and-political-fragmentation-of-iraq-towards-the-creation-of-a-us-sponsored-islamist-caliphate/5386998
Jives He’s certainly both a menace and menacing. I say he. Could well be a she. Anyway the bunch of them are excessively monotonous and boring. Time they packed it in and gave it up as a bad job.
I put that link up earlier Courtenay. A certaing group here are rubbishing both it and Global Research which rather suggests Chossudovsky has hit the spot.
The idea that further western bombing will make things better is so deluded as to beggar belief.
That explains why Tony Blair and John McTernan support doing just that.
Mary,
” A certaing group here are rubbishing both it and Global Research…”
Well:-
1. Did the CIA fund and train the Mujhadin ( which later morphed into Al Qaida) – when it ( the US) wanted to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan?
2. If the answer to 1 above is “yes” – and it is not an unknowing phenomenon for the US to have groups do proxy fighting to achieve a greater objective of US foreign policy – then…
3. Is it beyond the realms of probability that the US, wanting to see Assad out of power does this:-
i) Effects proxy funding ( via the CIA) of the Al Qaida fighters who are opposing the Assad government?
Comment: Surely – my enemy’s enemy is my friend – so what does the US have to lose if a proxy force is funded to attempt Assad’s overthrow? After all, Assad is a friend of Iran and Russia ( now both enemies of the US) – why not then fund the fighters and hope for the best in pursuit of the long-term strategy of the US in the ME.
ii) If the US has certain long-term goals in the ME ( and the US does) and Al Maliki is not playing ball as desired, why then not seek to realign Iraq along ethnic/religious lines – Kurds, Shia, Sunni – have it split then in a more manageable way deal with the fragmented entities?
Comment: The experience with Yugoslavia gives us a most recent example of this strategy in operation, with the Serbs kicking off the separatist action, and the West appears contended with the break-up. Thus, can we deny the attack on Libya and that the end game in a tribal society could not have been assumed not to be the quick return to strong central government in a post-Ghaddfi Libya, rather the fractionalisation that we see in operation today in Libya. Does it not make sense that to state that the same process is in play in Iraq today – as Chossudovsky has articulated?
Question: If Chossudovsky’s analysis is wrong – then who has a better explanation of the forces in operation today in Iraq? Or – is it as B-liar declared – there is a disconnect between the 2003 invasion and the consequential fall out today in Iraq. Who is right; who is wrong; and – who can post better and more reasoned explanations?
OVER TO YOU ALL…
Muttley79,
” The idea that further western bombing will make things better is so deluded as to beggar belief”
It goes much further than that with B-lair.
It is a bit like the US officer in the Vietnam war who told the media that he had to bomb the Vietnamese village to save it.
If there were not mad people running the world – then – when someone such as B-lair makes such a stupid, inane, illogical and delusional statement then the men in white would be around quickly to place him in a straight-jacket to ensure that he did not have any further chance to do anymore harm to any other human being or large section of humanity.
Do Al-Qaeda really exist other than as a convenient MSM spectre?
Or just a database of men with beards brandishing barely working Lee Enfields the Yanks sold them 35 years ago?
All ive ever seen is the same MSM repeated footage of the same 3 guys struggling to clamber over a few rungs of what must be the most useless and primitive assault course ever cobbled together.
Of course the MSM would have you believe this is actually the sprawling hi-tech nerve centre of an HQ that would render Blofeld envious.
Complete bollox the lot of it.
If we call – or – name ” Al-Qaeda” as a group sharing certain extreme Islamic beliefs – then that definition comes like “Christian” – “Muslim” – “Zionist”. In other words, there can be factions, sects, sub-groupings under the umbrella group, yet a common set of beliefs can be shared, but the expressions of the group come from different sub-sets. The main point is that there is an identifiable body/group.
I got drawn into watching some war porn following Anon’s youtube link and beyond. I was struck:
Why are so many of the ISIL fighters covering their faces (some with black balaclava)? This seems an unexpected hedge for crazed religious warriors.
It is just a blessing that Blair is a busted flush politically and has no power to take us into another war.
Good e-mail to Gurumurthy on Ch 4 News.
Posted by Ed on June 15, 2014, 6:44 pm, in reply to “Krishnan Guru-Murthy….shameful warmongering in his Snowmail ”
Mr Guru-Murthy,
In reference to tonight’s Snowmail (1).
Over a million dead Iraqis, cancer rates and a toxic legacy in Fallujah higher than those in Hiroshima after they dropped the atomic bomb, carnage every week in the streets, most people without a regular supply of water and electricity, medical facilities and care woefully inadequate…. and yet here you are selling Blair’s snakeoil for yet another “intervention” in Iraq, just like you did for the illegal invasion in 2003.
What is it about you that sees fit to treat a proven liar who bears personal responsibility for all of the above and much, much more, as a legitimate and sincere advocate of more “Western intervention” in Iraq? It’s nothing short of obscene.
Your reference to the “potential threat to the west from a new al-Qaeda style powerbase in the Middle East” is pure scaremongering obfuscation too considering you are more likely to be killed by a bee than a terrorist.
Ed Murray.
The Snowmail read:
(1)Blair backs another Iraqi intervention – but is his a lone voice?
Can Britain even contemplate intervention in Iraq as militant Sunni Islamists threaten to bring down the Shia-led government? The only man trying to force us to do that right now is Tony Blair. In an article and interview today, he rejects the idea that the 2003 war is to blame for the current crisis, arguing instead that it is the failure to confront Syria that has allowed the spread of extremism.
There are options short of an Iraqi style invasion, he argues, without spelling out what they are. But it seems clear that air power, intelligence and military support for the Iraqi army are what he has in mind. Virtually nobody wants to spring to his side in this conversation which, given Blair’s toxicity with so many people these days, perhaps isn’t surprising. But also given the potential threat to the west from a new al-Qaeda style powerbase in the Middle East, the lack of advocates for such military action is also rather surprising.
‘Where’s my famous supporter Michael Gove when I need him’, Blair might wonder. I’ll be talking to the British Ambassador to Iraq live from Baghdad and our Foreign Affairs Correspondent Jonathan Rugman has been talking to the son of the Iraqi President, who is also a deputy prime minister of Iraqi Kurdistan.’
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1402854258.html
Read just some of the 2000+ comments on the Guardian article and you can see how low he rates in the people’s opinion.
Tony Blair: west must intervene in Iraq
Ex-PM says allies should consider military options short of sending troops after denying 2003 invasion led to Isis crisis
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/15/tony-blair-west-intervene-iraq-isis-military-options#start-of-comments
The revolting war mongers’ stenographers and spin merchants are itching to get their maps and graphics with the magic pens working again on another war.
Meanwhile Agent Cameron is not going to be left out of the limelight. He’s been doing some Muslim bashing. He talks of British values and the need to observe the rule of law. Where do his secret trials fit into that ‘rule of law’? Has he ever read the Magna Carta. He was unable to translate the title when asked some time back.
Be more British Cameron tells UK Muslims: PM issues powerful new pledge to combat extremism
He plans to use 800th anniversary of Magna Carta to reassert British values
Prime Minister said it is time to stop being ‘squeamish about Britishness’
He said refusing to accept British laws and the way of life is ‘not an option’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2658033/Be-British-Cameron-tells-UK-Muslims-PM-issues-powerful-new-pledge-combat-extremism.html
‘The Muslim Council of Britain
Farooq Murad: I hope @David_Cameron takes up with #MailonSunday their misleading headline on Muslims and #BritishValues #MCBAGM’ Facebook
The case against Saddam Hussein.
He was our man allegedly (done as our bosses, the US and thus their bosses told him): Make big war with Iran. A war ensued, millions were killed, we openly armed Iraq selling lots of weaponry, covertly armed Iran, selling lots of weaponry, and with all the money and oil sloshing around, the CIA used the profits to exand their wholesale drug dealing business in heroin, and fund violent reactionaries, quislings, narco-states and death squads all over the globe, and expanding the cocaine side of their black-budget businesses massively.
So little of the money eventually began finding its way to the actual arms manufacturers, the guys with the lathes and the milling machines, working full pelt, that in the US and UK, the government stepped in to keep the lathes turning by guaranteeing payment, the Export Credit Guarantee Scheme, so that we ended up supplying arms on credit, on the never never, probably to both sides again but certainly to Iraq; there still must be legal argument over who actually owns the scrap metal rights in Matrix-Churchill’s appalling ‘SuperGun’. A well-meant suggestion that Lottery funding be used to compensate the taxpayer, purchase the SuperGun and set it up within deadly range of the Westminster Parliament, keep it in working order and test it from time to time, was dismissed by John Major, though people would have payed good money to see in action a weapon which could hurl a projectile bigger than a double-decker bus at the Tories.
Thatcher’s government connived with the US in fomenting the war Iraq-Iran and profiteering from it, they approved blackheartedly that proxy war was a gas, and better still, the taxpayers paying for it were mostly oblivious. Over-reach and hubris British style then struck, British companies, in their greed built and equipped for Iraq a poison gas shell making plant, with secondary capabilities making innocuous, chemicals, bleaches and stuff, and made sure Saddam had all the necessary nerve gas precursors, raw materials and stuff to give Iran (and the world) the shivers.
The Iranians were duly gassed in their millions, but the frontline was a bit porous especially in the Kurdish areas, where Iranian conscript soldiers were not quite deserting but certainly went temporarily AWOL, enjoying the hospitality of the friendly kinfolk of northern Iraq, with whom they had no beef, and many injured Iranians, half-gassed Iranians were cared for, medically assisted there, with a good many Iranian teenagers discovering a little of life outside Iran and away from military discipline and danger, for some, some R&R away from homes and families. This is where retroactively Saddam would be said to have over-stepped the mark with the poison gas (of which act Winston Churchill would surely have set his great seal of approval!) -disloyal Iraqi Kurds fraternising with ‘enemy’ Iranians, in one fell swoop he’d fix them both and put the fear of $deity, as a warning into his other internal splittists, the Shia of the South.
Poor old Saddam, he’d done many terrible things, but still in the eyes of the US and UK, he was a genius and could do no wrong, suggestions a Knighthood or an Archbishopric might be in order for him, came to naught, he soon realises he’s been done up like a kipper, he’d swapped a lot of oil, for piles of paper dollars, with far less calorific value, then blown his piles of dollars buying arms and fighting Iran, he owed money all over the place, his gas bill was extortionate, his oil is being pinched literally from right under his nose, he developed a bad back, and a painful in-grown toenail compounded his misery.
Kuwait, once part of post-Sykes-Picot Iraq, was cleaved off, long back by the Perfidious Albion, to create yet another oil-rich super-rich pocket mini-state, but being small, its oil reserves soon diminished, but by drilling well off-vertical, into neighbouring ex-parent Iraq’s huge underground reserves, the solution could be found and they soon began pumping it. Crafty Saddam quickly ended the war with Iran, tidied away the many corpses, then had a think, he must accumulate some big piles of the new Euro Wonga, Dollar Moolah (not the radical cleric) had been the cause of all his woes, with his oil selling at two cents a barrel, and he couldn’t print dollars himself like the Saudis could do.
With Fiat money, Mercedes money, Monsieur Saddam woud soon be back in the big time, they couldn’t treat him like this after all he’d done! But first those Kuwaiti ingrates must be stopped. The Americans for once incredibly “had no particular view on his inter-Arab disputes”, they gave the green light, but immediately once Saddam was off to teach the Kuwaitis a lesson, the signals changed from green to red. Kuwait, was the new Belgium, it was Poland, it was Egypt, they were cuddly and Saddam, was a m-m-m-monster lithped the BBC.
And so … Incubators, new new new new new Hitler, Gulf War 1.0, blah blah blah, Highway of Death, Revenge on the Southern Shia, sanctions, sanctions, dead babies, sanctions, still sanctions, dead babies, Gulf War 1.1, more dead babies, harmless ‘depleted’ nuclear waste and so on. There are some who believe he wasn’t hung but patched things up with Kaiser George Busch I’s successor Kaiser George Busch II and Queen LizardDeth and was smuggled out to Scotland, England, where he resides to this day in a bungalow by the sea.
There are also those, Tony, who think that the man captured from that hole was not Saddam Hussein at all, but someone who looked like Saddam with a beard. If so, where is he now?
There are also those who think that Hitler escaped to Argentina, and provided evidence about it in a book…
Good old “Occam’s razor”!
Sorry, didn’t read message thoroughly, Tony. Scotland, eh! That would give the struggle for independence a whole new meaning!
ISIS may be an “unintended consequence” of the aftermath of the Iraq War, but the thinkers behind the neocons do seem quite good at using the unexpected to their advantage, cf 9/11. Now they could find a way to argue for bombing Syria,
I see my favourite discredited liar has been making (himself) some headlines again. Seems we need to launch another ill-planned, underequipped war on false premisses, against an adversary whose sponsors we are deeply committed to pleasing at every possible opportunity.
How times change.
Here’s Tony instructing the Turks to cool it and negotiate with the PKK in 2011:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/violence-should-end-to-start-negotiations-in-turkey-blair.aspx?pageID=238&nID=6192&NewsCatID=351
How the Turks feel about the prospect of the PKK’s successors being armed and supported by the West (as they defend civilisation from the rampaging Qatari-proteges ISIS, has yet to be widely reported. Probably because it’s unprintable.
Here’s Tony leaving Istanbul in his undeniably lovely charter jet, G-CEYL, in 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqV4gLll7r0
G-CEYL left Northolt earlier today, destination unknown as yet.
Looks like I’m behind the curve on this one… USUK are already planning to bomb:
http://rt.com/news/166068-us-uk-iraq-joint-force/
Original article in the Sunday Times, but I wouldn’t want to encourage anybody to pay for the pleasure of reading the original.