Grief is the only appropriate reaction to the death of so many people on Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17. The point scoring and guessing games are macabre. Of course, some people have to suppress grief and get to work urgently to secure the crash site from interference so there can be a proper investigation of what happened.
We have no idea what evidence lies behind the various statements as to who did or did not shoot down the plane. There is no evidence I have seen that it was shot down at all. This could relate to Ukrainian violence, it could relate to MH 370, it could be an unrelated incident. We really don’t know yet.
What is particularly ghoulish is the false grief, what I might call the triumphalist shroud waving, of those seeking gleefully to blame the side they do not support in the Ukrainian conflict. In the current total absence of evidence, this is abominable behaviour.
“the catastrophe in Donetsk was most likely caused by the incompetence and non-professionalism of the Ukrainian operators of the Buk systems during its testing after the battery was deployed in the new location”
What new location? As far as I’m aware we do not yet know what caused the plane to crash, let alone where the cause was located.
Mark; Doesn’t BUK radar recognize transponder? If so, it may have been turned off.
Does anyone know the location over the Ukraine where ground control lost contact with the flight, as opposed to where the crash happened?
You have been duped Fred. It is a pretence. An illusion of democracy. Have you ever sent in a complaint? I have. Anodyne is returned.
At one time the BBC employed Capita to run their complaints and still do.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2009/08_august/04/contract.shtml
They employed another outfit to manage their digital output and image and still do. viz ‘At Lowe Profero, Eloise will work closely with the agency’s CEO, Dale Gall and MD, Buster Dover to drive and grow Lowe Profero’s creative output across all clients including M&S, Revlon and the BBC.’
http://london.loweprofero.com/en/our-work
Harding is ex Murdoch, an avowed Zionist supporter and part of the Z mafia now running the BBC.
‘Berg has replaced Tarik Kafala as head of the online Middle East desk. Overseeing his work will be James Harding, who was appointed the BBC’s director of news and current affairs earlier this year.
In his previous post, as editor of Rupert Murdoch’s Times newspaper, Harding spoke in 2011 at a media event organised by The Jewish Chronicle. He told the audience: “I am pro-Israel. I believe in the State of Israel. I would have had a real problem if I had been coming to a paper [The Times] with a history of being anti-Israel.”’
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/amena-saleem/bbc-editor-urged-colleagues-downplay-israels-siege-gaza
‘The strongly Zionist Jewish Chronicle reprinted those words with glee as news of Harding’s BBC appointment broke. And it also took the opportunity to remind its readers that, during the Israeli massacre in Gaza in late 2008 and early 2009, when more than 1,400 Palestinians were slaughtered, Harding wrote a Times editorial titled, “In defense of Israel” (“Signs of The Times at JCC,” 14 April 2011).
Now bringing his pro-Israel biases into the top ranks of the BBC, Harding will be in charge of its flagship news and current affairs programs including Today, Newsnight, Panorama and Question Time. He will also be responsible for daily news bulletins on the BBC’s main television channels and radio stations.’
http://electronicintifada.net/content/apologists-israel-take-top-posts-bbc/12395
They all stand together.
PLANE CRASH:It is “increasingly likely that MH-17 was shot down by a separatist missile” in Ukraine, Downing Street says
‘A Downing Street spokesman later said it was “increasingly likely that MH17 was shot down by a separatist missile”, and added that the UK was sending extra consular staff and six investigators from the UK Air Accident Investigation Branch to Ukraine.’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28378388
RT Journalist sick of the lying resigns
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/russia-today-correspondent-resigns-over-coverage-of-ukranian?bftw=main
Perhaps some of our Putinistas might wish to follow if they have the moral courage to do so?
Ангрысоба: Only self-denying brainwashed dudes wouldn’t read beyond the truth. Take for example, one of the most radical Israeli author Barry Chamish, who in a 2012 interview claimed that Israel and American Zionist leaders committed 9/11.
http://rehmat1.com/2012/08/22/israeli-jew-author-zionists-did-911/
If only BBC had reporters with the integrity to call out falsehoods. We could immediately enjoy Utopia.
Yeah I am convinced that RT are propaganda organ unlike the bbc, cnn, fox, and the rest of the upright and honest medijia like the rest in hell news of the world.
This is the first time some mercenary has been paid to switch sides in the middle of a fight, or is it?
How Cold War-Hungry Neocons Stage Managed RT Anchor Liz Wahl’s Resignation
Where is she working these days, and what is her going rate?
Judas was a pioneer in the business of switching sides, setting a pretty high bar for everyone else.
Another unknown Sara Firth does Liz Wahl boy that is news, which will be pretty much taking care of the mornings news cycle and nothing to be said about the Mad zionist dogs unleashed on Gaza to commit war crimes as debated in UK Parliament
“Where is she working these days, and what is her going rate?”
Shopping for a good contract. I’m sure Putin is a miserly employer.
Zzzzz. Wake me up when the hysteria subsides.
The ICAO will suss it out. Or the ICJ.
http://www.ejiltalk.org/uses-of-force-against-civil-aircraft/
Watch who is willing to let pacific dispute resolution run its course, and who is pushing to short-circuit independent investigation with use of force.
One of the wrinkles is, if the separatists are ultimately subdued, this is Ukraine’s responsibility.
““Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, MH17 was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet,” the national carrier said.
The decision by MH17’s pilots to skim closely to the prohibited air zone — which is 32,000 feet, according to Europe’s aviation authority Eurocontrol — has prompted numerous questions whether this may have contributed to what is believed to be a case of mistaken identity.”
– See more at: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/ukraine-traffic-controllers-instructed-mh17-to-fly-lower-mas-says#sthash.rMg3En8f.dpuf
Interesting. A Ukrainian air traffic controller tweeted that two fighter jets were observed shadowing the flight. According to sources, he has been removed and the tweet deleted.
Fascinating when sockpuppets become arbiters of moral courage.
The damage on MH17 leaves little doubt that the plane was brought down by one or both of the two Ukie fighters shadowing it:
Pin warhead! Missiles USED to hit air targets use a special warhead, which is only characterisitc for them with very specific traces. It consists of a bundle of sharpened pins, which are sometimes welded together (sometimes not). An opening charge is installed behind this bundle, this is basically what the “pin and shrapnel” warhead consists of. When it approaches the target at the minimal distance the warhead explodes the opening charge and this bundle of pins flies to the target at almost cosmic speed. When hitting the target such pin – only by its kinetic energy – is capable to shoot through the plane destroying the internal structure of the aircraft and completely crashing the on-board equipment. The pin kinetics is so powerful that it can even split the titanium spar in halves. Such warhead has one big advantage – the missile does not need to be perfectly accurate – it explodes before contacting the target and the pins are shot in the direction of the airplane na cone. Even if only 2-3% of these pins hit the target, the plane is doomed – a hole in the wing or fuselage, or simply damaged cladding of the plane flying at trans-sonic speed the enormous relative airflow will destroy the damaged wing up to the very spar in less than a minute. If there is a dozen of such holes – there is simply no chance for anything.
1162038_original.jpg
But this is not the main point. Pin and shrapnel warheads are mainly used on air-to-air missiles because of their compact size. The anti-aircraft defense systems prefer to use high explosive and shrapnel warheads, because in a number of cases they are more efficient than pin and shrapnel ones. The picture we have here shows cladding damage characteristic for pin and shrapnel warheads. High explosive and shrapnel warhead damage looks different. This means that no BUK system hit this aircraft. Here we are dealing with either R-27 Topor or R-73 missiles, which Ukrainians have plenty of and which are installed on MIG-29 and SU-27
Source: http://guruinterneta.livejournal.com/32590.html
The US has had recourse to a deus ex machina due to the catastrophic losses of the junta’s forces on the border with Russia. Without NATO intervention, the junta’s toast.
Paul; Good find. It seems BUK is a high-explosive warhead, but there is one model which has a proximity fuse. Would that likely entail pins or rods, as shown in the pic?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
Regarding Paul, 4.49
Some of your questions would be answered by a perusal of Craig’s posts at the time the Ukraine situation first blew up.
He seems to have moved from an anti-Russian to a more neutral position in the meantime.
MH17 Shootdown Shows Chaff Was Deployed Proving Fighter Jet Was Somehow Involved!
Friday, July 18, 2014 7:20
Photographs and videos emerging from the shootdown of Malaysian Flight 17 shows that chaff was deployed as shared in this newly released video from potrblog, proving that a fighter jet was somehow involved in this false-flag takedown of the Malaysian jet. With the lies the MSM has told about this downed jet now completely falling apart, was it a US, UN or Ukrainian jet that REALLY took down MH17? Much more below.
The video below is purported to be of the 777 shoot down in Ukraine. Note that @11 seconds into the video Chaff streamers are floating down on to the wreckage site. Chaff is dispensed from military aircraft to obscure an aircraft from RADAR and RADAR guided missiles. The presence of the Chaff indicates something is not right about the story being told.
IF this is video of the 777 shoot down in Ukraine, it indicates that a military aircraft was involved in the shoot down. This could be anything from a fighter actually shooting down the 777, to a fighter shadowing the 777 and having to launch Chaff to avoid a missile.
What ever the case, the glittering streamers and specs in the video show that the official story being told is not correct.
http://youtu.be/PUltrf8n_vA
” The damage on MH17 leaves little doubt that the plane was brought down by one or both of the two Ukie fighters shadowing it: ”
Wow I’m impressed. Did you have any trouble persuading the separatists to let you examine the wreckage? Did you happen across the flight recorders whilst you were in the area?
Don’t you mean Flechette?
That is anti-personnel ie designed to kill human beings (favourite round of the zionistani uniformed mercenaries).
For missiles to destroy aircraft they a pretty easy job sock loading of certain parts of the craft with the propagation waves does most of the job. Included ripping off panes that in turn has cascade effect, as any first year engineering student would know.
Note to self; Read three times and then press button
Me pigeon English practice for my holidays already.
http://youtu.be/PUltrf8n_vA
That’s not Chaff, the video clearly shows they’re streams of smoke from small burning objects or bits of wreckage. Ideal length for Chaff is half the radar wavelength so the longest length is 50 mm to confuse 10 cm radar. The objects (trails of smoke) in the video are clearly far too long.
chaff looks like aluminum streamers resembling rain on radar. It certainly could be countermeasures and maybe the separatists were shooting at the fighters.
Kempe; You really should try a comprehensive reading course.
We’ll find out in a decade or so who was responsible for the MH17 outrage, it might involve shady operators in Malta/Swiss Timers with anachronistically the wrong colour circuit-board/ray-banned advisors of the PCs at Lockerbie or just a combination of GRU & ‘separatist’ idiots. The culpability probability is about 50:50 us/ru at present, there is much manipulation going on, and I specifically trust neither side, neither Hollywood nor Москва. Will the proxy war be over by 2024?
If you’d bothered to read the comments below the video, Kempe, you’d have noticed that the question of chaff lengths etc is addressed by the compiler(s).
And if you’re really so concerned by remote analysis, you’ll doubtless have no trouble directing me to your presumably lacerating criticism of those who, from their vantage points in Langley, Foggy Bottom, and the FO, immediately pronounced Putin personally responsible.
Craig,
I admire your magic thinking. Your attempt to extract some sense out of Putin’s statement reminds me of the conjuring tricks performed by various Kremlinologists in the sixties and seventies. The best of those was a slightly deranged woman, then writing for the Grauniad, otherwise known as Nora Ballsoff by Private eye readers. She tried to prophecy the future of soviet leadership from the constellation of equally deranged old man standing on top of the Lenin mausoleum during the May Day parade. In my opinion, anyone apart from those who got a first in Greats at Oxford, will be able to understand that those rascals capable of shooting down an airliner flying east at a cruising speed of about 900 km/hour at 11 000 meters only 60 km from the Russian border, will not mistake it for a cargo plane. Where the fuck was this fabulous cargo plane was supposed to land? Why would the so called separatists want to do that even if they had the capability for this kind mischief?
Yeah. The Virginia farmboys are rotating their crops. There is a rare confluence between CIA, NATO and the IMF.
I sense there are some differences extant, but they have been united on this issue.
Resident dentist and a lieutenant of the hasbara brigade
I spread lies all the time. Would you know anyone who would pay me if I switched sides?
If there were fighter planes escorting the Malaysian jet and the fighters were being fired upon is it possible the fighters could accelerate away leaving the 777 as the heat tsrget?
Which could beg even nastier questions.
Theres also claims from a Spanish air traffic controller working the tower in Ukraine who apparently tweeted that Ukraine fighters were alongside the 777 and that the Ukraine command ordered the take down. A few minutes later the tower was taken over by Ukraine military types and all civilian controllers were pushed aside,after having their phones and tech taken from them.
Il try and find the link…
” If you’d bothered to read the comments below the video, Kempe, you’d have noticed that the question of chaff lengths etc is addressed by the compiler(s). ”
Streams of smoke. Too long to be chaff, OK? No radar operates at wavelengths that long.
” And if you’re really so concerned by remote analysis, you’ll doubtless have no trouble directing me to your presumably lacerating criticism of those who, from their vantage points in Langley, Foggy Bottom, and the FO, immediately pronounced Putin personally responsible. ”
I’m more interesting in hearing you defend your remote analysis. The emphasis is on you to provide supporting evidence to support your claim.