Grief is the only appropriate reaction to the death of so many people on Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17. The point scoring and guessing games are macabre. Of course, some people have to suppress grief and get to work urgently to secure the crash site from interference so there can be a proper investigation of what happened.
We have no idea what evidence lies behind the various statements as to who did or did not shoot down the plane. There is no evidence I have seen that it was shot down at all. This could relate to Ukrainian violence, it could relate to MH 370, it could be an unrelated incident. We really don’t know yet.
What is particularly ghoulish is the false grief, what I might call the triumphalist shroud waving, of those seeking gleefully to blame the side they do not support in the Ukrainian conflict. In the current total absence of evidence, this is abominable behaviour.
Kempe; Are you prepared to do obeisance to the meme promulgated by the liars who control our information?
You lack fundamental curiosity and open-ended awareness. That’s one of the main reasons no one listens to you.
Belloff wrote for The Observer, not the Guardian, I dimly recollect, at a time when they were slightly different beasts, though doubtless all stalwarts of the IRD system of briefing and backgrounding – see page 19 below:
http://cdn.jfk14thday.com/documents/jfkl/personal/salinger/142-press-contacts-memos-3.pdf
Kempe: “That’s not Chaff, the video clearly shows they’re streams of smoke from small burning objects or bits of wreckage.”
I don’t know what it is but it clearly isn’t streams of smoke.
Paul; Link unresponsive.
If there were Ukrainian fighters up there then Russia would have evidence of that. They must monitor that airspace right on their border.
And calling this a terrorist attack is not helpful. Terrorist attacks are planned. This was accidental. Atrocious but accidental.
The alleged Spanish air controller at Kiev could well be fake/psy-ops.
Their handle was @Spainbuca but Twitter says that the page doesnt exist anymore.
Murkier and murkier.
DavidH,
You dont know if it was an accident or a planned atrack.
Like all of us you are just speculating.
Jives; It’s a good point but there is more to the story. He seems to have been taken out of service and his tweet taken down. He was an ATC in Kyev, but he tweeted in Spanish since he is from Spain. He hasn’t been discredited as yet. Let’s not condemn him to fraud without hearing all the facts.
Jives –
Was Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior behind the Downing of Malaysian Airlines MH17?
[we are informed that the Spanish Air controller’s Twitter account has been suspended]
http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-ukraines-ministry-of-interior-behind-the-downing-of-malaysian-airlines-mh17/5391909
Minister of Internal Affairs, Anton Gerashchenko, sure knew stuff before everyone else…and got it reported instantly worldwide. i couldn’t believe how quickly bbc was updating information once the story broke. the BUK missile allegation from Ukraine Interfax was being aired in no time at all.
“If one of the separatists were to shoot someone and post a picture of the body on Twitter with the caption “I’m glad I shot the bastard”, this would still not be seen as meaningful evidence for some people here.”
It wouldn’t be meaningful at all. The separatists could be a figment of our securitat’s imagination. He could be real, but on ‘our’ side’. In this instance, he could have been trying to shoot Putin’s plane, which would be understandable – though I don’t think political assasination is a smart idea personally. Or perhaps it was an accident?
It’s the fable of the boy who cried wolf. Our security services, and our media, lie routinely. So, if this separatists is real, it’s quite natural to disbelieve the evidence. My opinion? Seems to be a lot of stories about. I don’t for a second think a pro-Russia separatists decided to take down a passenger plane (a war crime by any standards). I’m willing to accept it was a separatist, but I echo Ben’s question as to why a passanger plane was in the war-zone. Looks like an accident, to me. Not much help to the families of those who died, of course, but they should know, if this was the case.
My conspiracist theory? Ukrainian forces tried to take down Putin, and hit the wrong target. In which case, we would have to ask where they got their intelligence from. Us, probably. This angle looks unlikely, I admit, but so is the current media narrative.
Anyway, the point is, the psychopaths who run the show in the US are salivating. They are already taking advantage, and it has been ‘established’ that it was a missile. Maybe it was. But we generally come to conclusions after an investigation, not a few grainy iPhone pics. It’s the Shock Doctrine, again, and the US is ready to take action. Watching John McCain looking all bloodthirsty makes me feel ill. Dick Cheney will be up soon, to tell us what to do. Yuk.
Ben,
I wasnt intending to discredit the alleged Spanish ATC,more a case of my previous post nott making clear enough this account was not verified,so it was a kind of balancing post,if you will.
Strange how all the accounts seem to have been closed down sharpish though..
” You lack fundamental curiosity and open-ended awareness. ”
Oh I possess plenty of curiosity, it’s simply tempered with a large dose of common sense and if I lack anything it’s gullibility and the tendency to foregone conclusions.
That’s not chaff.
Wrt the Medias lightning-fast predilection to ‘chust’ following orders, Lee Harvey Oswald’s precise description was broadcast over police radios in Dallas within 9 minutes of JFK’s head-shot.
Surely they are better than that after five decades of practice.
Oddie
I genuinely dont know.
I just referenced the story which seemed ubiquitous yesterday but has now disappeared completely it seems.
As i say,i really know nothing of the integrity,or otherwise,of this report;just passing it on as it seemed curious to say the least.
“That’s not chaff.”
It sure as hell ain’t wheat-germ.
Brendan,
Yours is neither a conspiracy theory or particularly unlikely i have to say.
When one is dealing with such nutters and psychos( on all sides in a conflict such as this) all rational bets are off.
These types will do anything-and i do mean anything- required to fulfil their agenda;actions that ordinary sane people would/could never contemplate.
History shows us this.
Who shot Malaysian Flight 17 over Ukraine?
Some hints….
1. The government in Kiev was installed by Washington and is supported by Washington. The CIA-advised Ukrainian army has Russian S-300 surface-to-air anti-aircraft batteries known as BUK M1.
2. On July 3, 1988, America’s USS Vincennes shot-down Iranian passenger airliner Flight 655 by firing two SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles killing 290 people on board including 66 children an crew of 16.
3. The Father of modern Malaysia Dr. Mahathir Mohammed has long been awarded the title of anti-Semitism by the Jewish Lobby for criticizing Israel and believing that Jewish Lobby has too much power in the US.
4. The director of the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry’s department of consular service, Andrii Sybiha, said that taking MH-17′s flight recorder out of Ukraine would be considered treason.
http://rehmat1.com/2014/07/19/who-shot-malaysian-flight-17-over-ukraine/
@Jives
“These types will do anything-and i do mean anything- required to fulfil their agenda;actions that ordinary sane people would/could never contemplate.
History shows us this.”
True dat. I rule nothing in and nothing out, for sure. In passing, I’ve been noticing the body language of some politicians. I swear that Tony Abbott and his front bench looked shifty as all hell when discussing the ‘missile attack’. Perhaps it was my imagination.
Russian President Vladimir Putin called on Friday for a ceasefire by pro-Russian separatists and Ukrainian government forces fighting in eastern Ukraine to allow for negotiations. I wonder why he is asking for peace now and this story in the Guardian ‘Cover-up: Ukraine rebels destroying all links to MH17 air atrocity’ Sure looks like the Ukraine as most of the commentators here believe must have shot down the plane and not the rebels?
Steve Crickmore,
Yeah like The Guardian knows whats really going on there right?
” Who shot Malaysian Flight 17 over Ukraine?
Some hints…. ”
Are you trying to suggest that any of that passes for evidence?
It would be funny if it weren’t so tragic.
No, jives, but it safe to assume Putin, ex-KJB agent in charge of counter -intelligence does. It is not difficult to read his behaviour to confirm our worst suspicions. He wieids absolute power in Russia, and ‘if’ the pro Russian rebels have shot MH17 down, they’ve just cut Putin off at the knees. His international standing has just plummeted, significantly. The armed rebel clowns, as revealed by their conversations, should not have been trusted with a lemonade stand, let alone a surface to air missles. They now will likely vanish as quickly as their Facebook entries.
If the parents gave their children a box of matches to play with, and in their absence the children accidentally burnt the house down who is to blame?
Is it:
– the parents
– the children
– the US
– the UK
– Israel/the Zionists
– The House of Rothschild
– any other puppet of the Zionists
– the BBC for not reporting the events correctly
– someone who wrote a child care manual with a Jewish sounding name or whose brother in law actually is Jewish
– the evil capitalist who made the matches and sold them to the parents at an inflated price and without a proper explanation of their capabilities.
– those who point out the obvious and are clearly in the pay of Israel etc.
The Mail’s excellent photo journalism here, some photos very grim.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697538/Shocking-new-accounts-carnage-MH17-crash-site-emerged-today.html
Hasn’t the media been quick to spin the looting story? What is there left to loot anyway?
ie
Kiev US/West supporting Ukrainians good people
Russia supporting Ukrainians bad people
It is increasingly looking like the Ukrainian military brought down the Malaysian plane.
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/emerging-evidence-points-to-mh17-being-a-ukrainian-false-flag/
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/breaking-part-ii-evidence-continues-to-emerge-mh17-is-a-false-flag-operation/
In the meantime Poroshenko’s forces are still murdering civilians in Lugansk, less than 60 kilometres from the crash scene.
Sky-News just compared the UK newspapers front-pages (on the whole “Putin’s Fault”) with the much closer hit by the mass-murder, Netherlands newspapers today, (“The world feels our pain”, “Murderers”(above picture of separatists) and the more telling “Will we ever know the truth?”)
The sky journo ambushed a passer-by and asked live to mic who she thought was responsible, the eminently sensible sad Dutch lady said, simply, “POLITICS”
MSG: to CIA – NL is drifting off-message, more PSYOPS needed.
MSG: to Putin – Don’t shoot down any airliners, OK?
It would be criminal if US investigators were allowed to be involved in discovering who is responsible for shooting down the Malaysian passenger plane. After allo they investigated Lockerbie and an innocent man was incarcerated in a foreign country more than a thousand miles away from his loved ones until he was nearly dead from cancer.
‘Allo, ‘Allo, wher did that “allo” come from?
I wonder does the useless idiot not think to question evidence from a website that takes its title from a quote by one of Stalin’s chief cronies – we already know that he is incapable of understanding the validity of any of the “scientific” evidence given on that website given his previous forays into basic mathematics (e.g. his flawed statistical analysis of famous people dying on airplanes).
Strangely enough every other article on the same website seems to uncritically support a certain political viewpoint.
Lost the argument again ESLO (oh sorry it’s the weekend) Resident Dissident. Don’t criticise the site come up with alternative meaningful links. I have never, unlike you, praised myself by my own sock-puppet. Get over your incompetence and perhaps we can have an adult conversation. What about this for starters: how much the Rothschilds made from insurance of the other Malaysian passenger plane that will never be found.
http://nodisinfo.com/rothschild-bribes-malaysian-airlines-commit-airplane-crash-hoax/