I am an anti-militarist. But I believe violence in defence can be justified. The Israeli mass killings by bombing in Gaza are absolutely unjustified. I also oppose the random and ineffective rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel. But when Israeli ground troops actually move into Gaza, it is my sincere hope that the Palestinians kill as many as are necessary to stop them. That is justified, legal and necessary.
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Peace will never be achieved in this region until israleis go back to where they come from, name east europe, england, etc.
Tito
I don’t think that is practical, or desirable. Peace is going to have to be based on people being broadly where people are, but ending the racial and religious segregated states. Just as the solution in South Africa was not to send the white people to Europe.
“But when Israeli ground troops actually move into Gaza, it is my sincere hope that the Palestinians kill as many as are necessary to stop them. That is justified, legal and necessary.”
If that happens then you are, of course, right, just as when Argentine forces moved into British territory. But that wasn’t right.
If the Devil incarnate came back to earth, he couldn’t do a better job than this bunch of Nazis. Israel, the Anti Christ.
“Peace will never be achieved in this region until israleis go back to where they come from, name east europe, england, etc.”
And yet across virtually the entire region we have a situation in which the Jews have fled or been forced out, but the violence continues.
Anon
The British retaking of the Falklands was legal. The Argentinian invasion was not. But lots of things are legal but not sensible. The government deliberately resolved the Falklands war in the most violent way possible to benefit from jingoism and overcome a disastrous popularity crisis for the Tories at home. Britain’s continued colonial rule over the Falklands is ludicrous.
Having answered you, any other off-topic derailment efforts (from anybody) will be deleted.
I’m not a pacifist either but I hope some settlement can be reached which forestalls any ground invasion so no more people have to die.
I am appalled by what Israel is allowed to do in Gaza – i.e., concoct a justification for whatever kind of intervention it chooses, allow reporting which only suits its fancies, dragoon the cowardly international community to go along with whatever it wants, as lot as it wants, etc., ad nauseam
When Slobodon Milosovic attempted similar behavior in Yugoslavia when it came to his treatment of Bosnia and Kosovo, the UN not only kicked the crap out of him, but arranged the dismantling of the country – culminating in his conveniently dying while on trial in The Hague for war crimes.
The USA even hit Turkey with a devastating earthquake when it tried to help him out during the bombing campaign, resulting in the end of its military rule
The so-called international community should deal even more harshly with the current thugs running Palestine, but, of course, it will just continue giving them the green light to do whatever they want with the poor imprisoned Palestinians.
“If the Devil incarnate came back to earth, he couldn’t do a better job than this bunch of Nazis. Israel, the Anti Christ.”
Nicely put. No doubt Murrayistas will be queuing up to denounce your rabid anti-Semitism..
John Hilley has posted the names and ages of the 135 Palestinian people killed by the Israelis since last Tuesday. There do not appear to be any Israeli deaths.
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1405238446.html
The Palestinians have two choices they can die while Israel bombs them to bits or they can fire some rockets while they die while Israel bombs them to bits.
In the past they had the choice of being shot while they ran or being shot while they threw a stone.
These fireworks and stones the Palestinians use are useless against Israel. But the Palestinians choose to do so instead of living in a state which the Israelis call peace.
It is there choice to make.
But when it comes to what will work against Israel. The only thing which will work is the prospect of war with a nation that can defeat it. Sykes Picot needs to be reversed. Just as Saladine reversed the devision between the Abasid Khilafah and the Fatimid Khilafah before he dealt with the Crusader states.
The word is sumud, Arabic for steadfastness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumud
‘We stay together, or we leave this world together’
July 12th 2014
From the rehabilitation hospital he heads, Dr. Basman Alashi can see where Gaza ends and Israel begins. If he needed a reminder of just how close the border is, it came early Friday morning, when Israel fired two “warning” rockets at the El Wafa Hospital, stoking fears that its 14 remaining patients – all elderly and all dependent on round-the-clock professional care to survive – would become the next victims of a bombing campaign that has so-far killed more than 120 people.
/..
http://972mag.com/we-stay-together-or-we-leave-this-world-together/93427/
I am a pacifist. I do not know whether I can live up to that ideal under certain circumstances since I have not been put to the test. The people of Gaza have been put to that test. I do not blame Israelis. I blame their government. Until governments are forced to destroy all weapons we cannot have a peaceful world. This little girl from Gaza says it all.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=838449942833199
Does Godalming BDS keep such an accurate count of Muslim on Muslim violence, which kills scores more than Israel has in nearly 70 years? Does she publish names and ages, provide us with body counts and tallies of the injured and displaced, keep us updated with dozens of posts per day, describe their actions as sick and unbearable?
So where do you draw the line? If to stop Israel killing Palestinians you had to kill/silence most of the politicians in the world who back Israeli violence, would you do it?
Craig/mods, while you are around can you please delete Anon’s Godalming Ad Feminem
There are 750,000 occupiers from the “Land of the free and home of the brave ” where “All men are created equal” living in israel, but are among the most strident in advocating evil apartheid upon the original inhabitants. I wonder how a person born under the hallowed and immortal American Declaration of Independence can turn out to become the opposite, it has to be Wendy Shermans DNA then?!
Arsalan – the third choice is total non-violence. Yes, they’ll still suffer descrimination, apartheid, land seizures, beatings, assassinations, imprisonment etc while they demand their civil rights but they won’t hand the Israelis their excuses.
Unfortunately we’re talking about various disparate groups and its a hugely tall order for them all to change to passive resistance. But its the only way out.
The Palestinians with Israeli citizenship also have enormous voting strength – but again their vote is hugely fractured. “They are fools” as one senior Isreali politician put it.
At the moment the Israelis have the Palestian authority (with their own personal vested interests) working for them as the most ardent supporters of the one state, two ghetto solution.
If Hamas announced a unilateral ceasefire today, excepting the UN calls for one that would completely wrongfoot the Israelis. They need to stop playing into the Israelis hands, demand their civil rights, and resist passively.
“the third choice is total non-violence”
That was actually Arsalan’s first choice.
“Craig/mods, while you are around can you please delete Anon’s Godalming Ad Feminem”
Why? Does it shame you that there is so much Muslim violence around the world while you remain silent?
Kempe +1 – but as the leaders on both sides are spoiling for a conflict I fear the worse.
MJ. “That was actually Arsalan’s first choice.”
No it wasn’t. Without the rockets Israel’s don’t have the excuse to bombs them to bits.
@Anon – for your information, the BDS movement is not anti-Israel. In fact, it legitimizes the Zionist entity.
http://rehmat1.com/2014/04/28/bds-legitimizes-israel/
Anon I know nothing about ‘Godalming BDS’ if you are meaning me. I know nothing about Palestine solidarity in Godalming.
I wonder if there is a point (?invasion of Gaza) where it would be legally justified to target foreign supporters of the Israeli government?
Je
They do have an excuse. They always do. And when they do, the people who support Israel keep on supporting it.
They didn’t start killing Palestinians like this as soon as Palestinians learnt to make rockets. This has been happening as soon as Zionism started and they needed to kick Palestinians out to take their homes.
Most of the Rockets are fired at Sidrot. Which was a Palestinian villiage, one were the Palestinians had actually sided with the Zionist. It didn’t stop the Zionists from killing and expelling them all, taking their homes and farms did it.
They didn’t need the excuse of rockets did they?
And the supporters of Israel supported that just like they support all else Israel does.
All the provocation Israel needs to kill is the fact Palestinians breath.
Jews are now a minority in the land controlled by Israel. So now you will see more of this to keep the Palestinian numbers in check so Israel can carry on claiming to be both a Jewish and a democratic state.
“No it wasn’t. Without the rockets Israel’s don’t have the excuse to bombs them to bits”
That’s Arsalan’s second choice. The point he was making was that the Palestinians can either do nothing (total non-violence) and get bombed to pieces or offer some token resistance and get bombed to pieces.
Craig,quite a few of the rockets are falling on Palestinian land . Hot of the press .The truth of the matter.
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/an-old-man-and-a-young-man-in-gaza-a-poem/#.U8Juw3LXaD6
Rehmat – I’m not Jewish.
I’ve heard a member of Hamas reported a while ago, saying he knows that the violence is counterproductive. He said, they just don’t know how to stop. The Israelis have the freedom. The Palestinians are in the trap. But the statistics are stark. Over a hundred Palestian dead to no Israelis. They have to acknowledge the greater strength of the occupier, and fight for their freedom and their land and their lives in better ways.
Sjb- “I wonder if there is a point (?invasion of Gaza) where it would be legally justified to target foreign supporters of the Israeli government?”
PS – Anon is in Godalming, if thats what you are after, bwahahaha!