An independent Kurdistan is a difficult sell because it is supported by such horrible people – Benjamin Netanyahu and every far right Republican in the US you can think of. Tony Blair is probably holding back on his endorsement until offered a huge consultancy fee or preferential access to “commercial opportunities” in the country.
Nevertheless, I supported self-determination for the Kurdish people long before the Western attacks on Iraq and I still do so now. That is support for a Kurdistan uniting the Kurdish lands of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Western Iran.
(The exception is the isolated Kurdish population of North East Iran, who are geographically far separated from the other Kurdish lands. The North East Iranian Kurdish community were deported there by the Shah in the early nineteenth century to form a barrier against Turkmen incursion).
The history of discrimination and abuse suffered by the Kurdish people is best known as it applies to Turkey, but in fact has been true in all four countries both recently and historically. The independence of Iraqi Kurdistan would almost certainly increase pan-Kurdish sentiment. This would be an undeserved difficulty for the current Turkish government, which has done a great deal more than its military backed predecessors to reduce discrimination and persecution. Neither Iran nor Syria would ever peacefully accept the loss of Kurdish lands.
The neo-con dream is to create a pro-American little state out of Iraqi Kurdistan that provides American bases, oil contracts and pro-Israeli support in the Middle East. There is no doubt that both the current degree of Iraqi Kurdish autonomy and the new push for an independence referendum are American inspired. But the neo-cons are not nearly as clever as they think they are, and have started processes which they have no hope of controlling. I very much hope to see an independent Kurdistan, and I hope to see it grow. Once established I expect to see Kurdistan in short order kick out the Americans and declare support for the Palestinians.
There is another persecuted people in the region who are distantly related to the Kurds. The subjugation and persecution of the Baloch is a direct result of the British invasion of Kelat in 1839. I also hope to see a free Baluchistan, combining both the Pakistani and Iranian colonised Baloch lands.
It’s Either/Or for Kurds, Craig. They want what they are owed, and it’s about oil.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/kurdish-region-is-exploring-whether-to-be-part-of-iraq-or-whether-to-be-independent/2014/07/02/87006f42-0239-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html
Sounds like a wish list which would make the whole area ungovernable if even started.
The talk about Independence is not all fluff, but right now it’s just a negotiation to move Maliki toward living up to his elected position. Maliki has shown no such desire to keep US up close, but if Kerry can get Iraq to ante up what they owe, it’s a win/win for Kurds.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/genels-kurdistan-oil-production-surging-says-ceo-tony-hayward-1404403726?mod=europe_home
I hope to see the opposite.
The neo-cons support further chop ups of muslim countries to further weaken them. Make them easier to invade and control.
What is needed is the opposite. The reunification of whate Syke Picot chopped up.
A united Kurdishtan within a United Islamic state.
The fighting in Tikrit today sounded and looked horrible.
‘There’s been fresh fighting between ISIS militants and the Iraqi army in Saddam Hussein’s former hometown of Tikrit. Thousands of troops have been trying to retake the town, since it fell on June the 11th, but they’ve so far made limited progress.’ Sky News video
Saudi Arabia have moved 30,000 troops to its border with Iraq.
http://news.sky.com/story/1294172/saudi-arabia-deploys-troops-to-iraq-border
No wonder Blair has gone walkies and avoids any questioning.
You said in your last post on Iraq that you thought the US would be happy to see the breakup of Iraq if ISIS can help them in Syria. But this will mean strengthening the Iranians and they will lose face if the wonderful democracy they have established in Iraq is blown to shreds.
Are the Americans really subtle enough to bring off such a volte face?
Craig,
Your blog is simply the most interesting and intelligent on the internet!
Really good post.
Sorry if I sound sycophantic 🙁
Aid; If you think this post is awesome, check out the next.
The Kurdish people are blessed with a unique compassion and intelligence derived from Islam. India and Pakistan are aslosh with Machivellian politics against polytheism creep, the worship of saints etc. The qualities of Iraqi Kurdistan are unique and differ from their neighbours who have been absorbed into Syria, Iran, Turkey and Iran.
The trouble with re-uniting Kurdistan is that politics is itself a form of polytheism and there is no popular wish for re-uniting the Kurdistan that Winston Churchill divided except from those who worship power, i.e political people. The Kurdish understand that breaking boundaries which are now nearly 100 years old will break more hearts who are intermarried with Turkish people and weaken their own culture of Sunni Islam.
This is a Zionist plan, as was Churchill’s when he broke the Ottoman Empire and asked for Mosul. It’s easy for Craig sitting in Kent to advocate the annexation of South East England with Northern France and a break away from Northern England. Only those who worship power and the opportunities for self-enrichment that arise from re-drawing boundaries, look forward to the turmoil involved.
I wonder whether the Yazidis will return?
As a part of Iraq, Kurdistan is a direct neighbour of Sunni Saudi Arabia. I wonder why the Zionists want to keep Saudi separated fromits friends?
And I wonder what Arsalan’s friends would do for the freedom of the Kurds in their Caliphate – first signs regarding their tolerance to those they have conquered are not good – to say nothing of their past history.
I’m afraid much of Craig’s respect for the self determination of the Kurds will go the same way as his respect for the self determination of Ukrainians in the hands of the regulars here who are unable to understand that notion can apply irrespective of which side is currently supporting their cause. I always find it slightly racist the assumption that certain people are unable to manage and determine their own fates and cannot be trusted to deal with outside interference.
Kurds never forget that kurdish warrior of Islam Salahuddin Ayubi liberated Jerusalem once from crusaders.
Saledin hailed from Tikrit like Saddam but their methods differed. Can there be a leader who is both courageous AND sagacious in the morass of the ME?
‘I supported self-determination for the Kurdish people long before the Western attacks on Iraq and I still do so now. That is support for a Kurdistan uniting the Kurdish lands of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Western Iran.’
The unification of all Kurdish lands is probably a non starter given the geopolitical quandaries it is likely to throw up; there is also the issue of the various Kurdish dialects being mutually unintelligible with each other. An independent Kurdistan in northern Iraq however is a real possibility given that state’s near implosion, but whether the Neocon wet dream materialises depends to a large extent on the reaction of Turkey to this likely development. If they can come to an understanding with the new state, and continue bridge building with their own Turkish minority, the odds on it not becoming ‘a pro-American little state’ would lengthen.
I mean of course ‘Kurdish minority’ in the comment above !
BTW; I believe T.E. Lawrence derived his philosophy directly from Saledin’s behaviors, not just pontifications. Just to be clear.
Is that what you believe Ben yeah?
And were you there?
Pray tell more….??
Read up, Jives. It’ll be quite a new experience.
Re:Lord Richards, ex General Chief of Staff.
From Medialens
Syria conflict: UK planned to train and equip 100,000 rebels 2 years ago!
Posted by richard27 on July 3, 2014, 11:13 pm
The fact that the UK planned this outrage is surely illegal and a conspiracy to overthrow a legitimate foreign government. The chief author of the conspiracy General Sir David Richards should be arrested alongside those who told him to produce it. How can the government get away with this? It proves what snakes there are within the establishment and secret circles. The same monsters behind Iraq, Libya, Bosnia and Ukraine
“The UK drew up plans to train and equip a 100,000-strong Syrian rebel army to defeat President Bashar al-Assad, BBC Newsnight can reveal.
The secret initiative, put forward two years ago, was the brainchild of the then most senior UK military officer, General Sir David Richards.
It was considered by the PM and the National Security Council, as well as US officials, but was deemed too risky.
The UK government did not respond to a request for comment.
Lord Richards, as he is now, believed his proposal could stem the civilian bloodshed in Syria as rebels fought troops loyal to Mr Assad.
The idea was considered by David Cameron and Dominic Grieve, the attorney general, and sent to the National Security Council, Whitehall sources said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28148943
Unbelievable BBC spin ” Richards believed his proposal could stem the civilian bloodshed…”
Posted by SueC on July 3, 2014, 11:55 pm, in reply to “Syria conflict: UK planned to train and equip 100,000 rebels 2 years ago!”
Yeah, right. Just a good ‘ole humanitarian. And the BBC does not even pretend to challenge this absurd notion. Our elites are totally out of control – how do you stop these people?
~~~~
My previous comment about him when he was warning of terror coming out of Afghanistan.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/06/lord-byron-terrorist/#comment-462864
I found out after that he has a des res at Kensington Palace. Presumably a perk for services rendered – ie warmongering for an evil empire. Anyway a nice neighbour for Wills and Kate and Baby George.
“Once established I expect to see Kurdistan in short order kick out the Americans and declare support for the Palestinians.”
– Incredibly naive Craig. USUKZ axis would plant their puppets in government. How on earth could you possibly think otherwise???
It is a good idea for Kurds to have their own homeland. Unfortunately, as you say, all countries out of which a Kurdistan could be created are against it, so it’s unlikely to happen.
If you chop and swap the Mid East again, to do a new Sykes Picot. No one will benefit. Not the Kurds, not the people who are not Kurds living in Kurdish areas, not the people who are Kurds living in non-Kurdish areas. A lot of people who call themselves Kurds can’t even speak Kurdish. A lot of the ones in Turkey can only speak Turkish and many in Iraq can only speak Arabic. Many in Turkey have Turkish ancestry and or are married to Turks, and the same applies to Iraq and Iran.
The Neocons support the creation of a Kurdishstan because nothing gives them more wet dreams than the thought of all the bloodshed its creation will cause.
The PKK and independence is not the be all and end all of what Kurds want.
And if a united Kurdishstan is what they want, the best way to get it is to unite the countries where Kurdishstan exists. That way no one will be expelled or transferred. An Islamic EU, or how I would call it, the New Khilafah or the reversal of Sykes-Picot.
Are Paxman and co getting paid to say this (turn our lights off) out of Cameron’s £55m war chest for WW1 ‘commemorations’?
Paxman set to mark WW1 centenary
Jeremy Paxman is leading a host of celebrities in marking World War I’s centenary. http://home.bt.com/news/uknews/paxman-set-to-mark-ww1-centenary-11363916981386
Memo to Cameron and Paxman. Get lost. We do not need reminding of the horror of that war, the war to end to all wars. It is yet more covert propaganda for militarisation. I prefer to listen to Harry Patch’s view of it.
The Neocons support the creation of a Kurdishstan because nothing gives them more wet dreams than the thought of all the bloodshed its creation will cause.
I don’t think so. What the neocons want, and it may be a sensible thing to want, is a stable state with which they can deal, sitting on some extremely valuable oilfields. Also, the Israelis (and hence the neocons) are deeply appreciative of anyone prepared to stir it with Iran – this was actively supported in and following 2003, not only by the Israelis but by the US. More recently, any opposition to the ISIS offensive, which the Kurds are able and willing to provide, is worth supporting. But Arsalan is IMO right with the rest.
Kurdistan is where Kurds live. It’s not in any sense an historical entity-state. The boundaries of what is considered – even by Kurds – Kurdistan have often changed, and half its heartland is in the state least likely to take Kurdish national aspirations seriously – Turkey. (Kurds have been a pain in the arse there since Rome had it – their main source of income was robbing travellers, then). Assuming any kind of resolution to the current bloodshed in the region is possible, highly devolved elected district administrations might be capable of meeting the concerns of both non-Kurds in predominantly Kurdish areas, and vice versa, under the aegis of a unitary Iraq. Otherwise, the almost-state the Kurds have been encouraged since 1998 to build in Iraq should be formalised.
A free Baluchistan? A free Kurdistan? Jeez you know what’s best for everyone.
I say butt out. We should not be pontificating about redrawing maps the other side of the world. It seems the arrogance of empire persists in the minds of 21st century social democrats.
Arsalan
That is simply not true. The vast majority of Kurds speak Kurdish, despite attempts to ban or discourage the language.
I must say I find the argument that it is “colonialist” to support nations fighting the colonial imposed boundaries ludicrous.
I say butt out. We should not be pontificating about redrawing maps the other side of the world. It seems the arrogance of empire persists in the minds of 21st century social democrats.
There is much in what you say. OTOH, we are seeing the map redrawing itself across the Mid East right now, and I’m not sanguine that this will result in anything more stable and less bloody than it has before -under us, the Ottomans, the Seljuks (with caveats) the Persians, the Romans, the Greeks or the Assyrians. Are you?
Craig
Only if you define Kurds as people who speak the Kurdish Language.
Any other definition and then what you say is wrong. Over the last hundred years populations moved to the cities. It wasn’t all populations but the Kurds. It was people moved. Some one of Kurdish ancestry born in Istanbul or Tehran is very unlikely to speak Kurdish. About as unlikely as an American with German ancestry to speak German.
And Mr Craig I am sure the Mr Sykes and Mr Picot said the same when they carved Syria and Iraq out the map the way they did?
divide and conquer is what colonialism is all about, even when they claim they are supporting the creation of new nations.
Removing colonialist boundaries is to remove the boundaries created by Sykes Picot. It isn’t to create a bunch of new boundaries and all the blood shed and displacement that comes with it.
Craig
“I must say I find the argument that it is “colonialist” to support nations fighting the colonial imposed boundaries ludicrous.”
Of course you do. That is because you know what is best for other people. Even those on the other side of the world. The truth is all disputes have winners and losers. All you are doing is making a choice.
The Kurds are not an homogenous people. No people are. Who the f**k are you to claim to understand the complexity of those societies. To pass judgement about what should happen. All you know is a small spectrum of opinion, almost certainly from the mouths of powerful Kurds. You absolutely do not understand the situation. You just think you do. And what about all the other peoples involved. Do you know everything about them to? No , Craig, your arrogance is the ludicrous thing here.
That a problem was created by this country is all the more reason for us to stfu. We shouldn’t be building aircraft carriers and we shouldn’t be blogging our judgements over arguments we cannot fully understand. It’s all comes from the same imperialist mind set (no matter how nice and non-imperialist you say you are). Are you listening to Kurdish opinion about Scottish Independence? Of course not.
Stop being so imperialistic. Stop redrawing maps around the globe. Admit you do not know it all. It’s well past time to stop interfering. Time to stfu.
Most importantly, you waste your energies. If we really want to help other people, if we really want to help the environment, the dolphins, the whole effing caboodle the best thing, by a million miles, we can do is focus on bringing down the corrupt governments of Europe.