Pro-Russian forces have removed large parts of MH17, and then substituted or altered them before returning to the site. This is extraordinarily important.
I know and absolutely trust Natalia Antalaeva of the BBC. About one hour ago she broadcast live on BBC World that OSCE observers had witnessed that sections of fuselage were being removed from the site, taken away and later returned after having been replaced or altered. In particular a large piece of tail section had been taken away and later something had been brought back which, according to the OSCE observers, “looked different” from the original.
Natalia said she had herself witnessed rebel forces cutting up sections of fuselage and removing pieces, and cranes lifting large parts of the wreck.
Extraordinarily, a few minutes after this report, the presenter hurriedly added that the BBC had of course no idea why this activity was taking place, it could be for totally legitimate reasons such as searching for evidence. Then silence – there has been no repeat, it has not appeared on the strapline, it was not in the hourly bulletin, and having just googled it I can find nothing on line.
It seems to me that there is a determination to put the lid back on this one at least until after the EU foreign ministers meeting today. I am drafting a substantial post on MH17, possibly for posting tomorrow. The real story is the collusion of the financial elite in making sure nothing is done about Russia.
just so I understand correctly – are you implying this is all russia’s doing?
Sounds like typical BBC “Blame Russia” bullshit. If she saw this why didn’t she ask?
Sidney
Yes. Because it is.
I hope your piece finds space to mention that more civilians have been killed in the last 4 days by Ukrainian shelling of cities than tragically died on MH17.
Derek
Why would I publish lies? Don’t bother coming here, stick to TASS or Russia Today.
“Natalia said she had herself witnessed rebel forces cutting up sections of fuselage and removing pieces, and cranes lifting large parts of the wreck”
Did she not think to take photographs? It seems strange that such a major operation could take place without being properly documented and that we are reliant on eyewitness accounts.
Craig
For a liberal and otherwise a very rational human being, your visceral anti-Russian conviction is amazing. It forces you to do what you rightly criticise main-stream media for: wild assertions with no hard evidence. Even if this means that you have to trust BBC which otherwise you so rightly criticise.
Lots of evidence already from around the net on the holes in the fuselage/other external aluminium skin parts that make it more and more likely it was a ground to air missile strike. Too many holes to cover that up now there’s an existing photographic record for probably all the wreckage (admittedly not all the angles and underneath.)
Black (= orange) boxes handed over, highly doubtful they could be tampered with without detection.
Craig, as for fuselage parts “replaced or altered” I would be skeptical that any replacement 777-200 parts would be available at short notice. Altered possibly, but they’d have to be pretty good to fool the metallurgists who might examine anything representing say a strange weld or other giveaway signs of tears and a corresponding differential in corrosion at a microscopic level, (if I can give an example of possibilities) or other tampering.
Having said that, I look forward to seeing further evidence – it might be (one scenario) that they took parts away for Russian aviation crash investigators to look at (without the prying eyes of official investigators) – that would make sense – and that BTW would be a negation/violation of the UNSC Resolution – if the Russians wanted some clues in advance as to how strong the case is for finger pointing towards them. OTOH planting eg some air to air missile shrapnel from a Sukhoi in the fuselage to muddy the waters? That could be possible?
It’s still early days but, no smoking gun yet, lets say a whiff of cordite?
Interesting. I can see why Russia is ‘helping’ the ‘rebels’, but I can’t see why they or the rebels would want to shoot down a passenger jet. The thought that Ukraine somehow tricked them into shooting down the jet sounds a bit far fetched as well. Incompetence is the most likely scenario, and it wouldn’t surprise anyone if Russian tried to hide that.
thanks, Craig – looking forward to your post…
I agree ‘B’ – if one is interested, even concerned and exploring the curious it makes sense to consider the motives, the Cui bono behind the assurances, the axiom of statement.
As an example why at this juncture has the British government announced an inquiry will be held into the death of the Russian dissident Alexander Litvinenko?
The ‘lid is being put on’ until all the vectors are reconciled and unified to vilify Putin’s Russia.
It would be important if it were definitely true. But I’m not convinced a BBC correspondent has the expertise to know whether aircraft parts are being substituted or merely being moved and returned as part of the investigation process. Also, it would have to be a very elaborate hoax for the Russians to have parts similar enough to substitute – and would they do it in front of a BBC correspondent?
Craig. 22 Jul, 2014 – 12:22 pm
“Sidney
Yes. Because it is.”
Is that just because you say or can you explain why you are so certain?
Are there any other similar reports or photos?
…
On the Air-Disaster thread,
More from BBC,
Dreoilin. 22 Jul, 2014 – 11:56 am
“..The leader of a Dutch forensics team has said he was impressed with the work done at the site of the MH17 airliner crash in Ukraine.
Forensics expert Peter Van Vliet said: “I think they did a hell of a job in a hell of a place…”
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28405448
Do you think we can trust the international forensic team to notice signs of evidence tampering?
Apologies – misunderstood that Antalaeva had learned of the incident from better qualified observers. Nevertheless there must be doubts about reports like these fed to a correspondent.
What looks like the video report in question has just appeared on the BBC website –
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28415769
As in Alice in Wonderland, you can pretty much see the caricatures.
Plenty of Queens of Hearts “Off with Putin’s head !”
And all this skullduggery happening of which we have so little evidence so far.
Just the word of some politicians and intelligence agencies.
What’s there not to believe ?
Interesting stuff.
re ‘the collusion of the financial elite’ isn’t it the case that the interests of the US overclass and Euro overclass diverge when it comes to Russia ?
The US is now (courtesy of fracking) once again largely self sufficient in hydrocarbons; Russia is not an important trade partner to them and ,in the one manufacturing area where Russia is globally proficient (armaments), a competitor.
Europe instead trades much more with Russia, and we need the pipelines originating there to keep the gas flowing. A serious rupture in Russian/W European trade (which would be the result of ‘real’ sanctions) would hit city slickers charging fees on Russian IPOs,luxury car dealers and estate agents in London , Marbella, and Monaco, and the French shipbuilding industry, to name but three. The fallout across the pond however would be minimal.
Just saw the clip. I think – with the mphasis that she puts on the word replaced – she means that they have put them back.
By the look of things they have been searching for bodies.
They’ve nearly found them all by the last count.
Having taken care to put them in the refrigerated lorries.
Not before time Craig, that you got into the stinking mess that is the MH17 story.
But why only this one (possibly) trivial detail? There’s lots more technical stuff of very high quality from
http://eureferendum.com/
Read that and then come back and tell us some theory that Russian peasants are contaminating the evidence!
Maybe Putin is trying to gather actual evidence to use against the accusations of the US and the west? He does like to play his cards carefully.
I don’t know what really happened to the downed plane, but the jump to conclusions by serial liars like the American National Embarrassment John Kerry leaves me hoping that someone somewhere is looking out for reality.
A member of the international monitoring team said pieces of the wreckage had been cut into and changed, possibly to remove bodies. BBC
Oh! – is empathy and community the main vector?
Craig; Is this the same source who claimed MH17 was diverted due to weather?
In case it hasn’t come up in your research, CNBC just yesterday was doing some in depth reporting on Russia oligarchs and their position following MH17 and Ukraine more generally. Here’s a typical piece:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101852990?trknav=homestack:topnews:20
The emphasis is very much that these people are increasingly concerned about a Western backlash. Surely not more concerned by this than crossing Putin, but still worried about the prospect of fresh sanctions. The fact, however, that they expatriated around $75bn in the first half of 2014 gives a pretty good clue about one of the things Western governments will have in mind in terms of how to appear to ramp up the pressure on Putin.
Nice reference Conallboyle. Craig seems only to cite the lying BBC when it suits him in his anti-Putin agenda. Weird, when – as he correctly asserts – the BBC is now totally corrupt government agenda in every other aspect. Why does Craig follow the BBC agenda on this, and only this? Does he too seek a world war with Russia? Quite bizarre.
Craig, Obomber and the EU are in sync. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28400218
What other financial elites are colluding?
Indeed yes Mark G, to all you’ve said. Perhaps Craig’s Russophobia is getting the better of him once again !
At least MH17 distracts from the slaughter in Gaza. How fortunate for the Zionazis that the two stories coincide.
Agent Cameron is doing his best to stay up with the script. He’s even done a little more than was asked of him by holding the Litvinenko inquiry. It all helps keep the “evil bear” at the forefront of the consumers’ minds.
Well done Agent Cameron. The Drone King will be very pleased with you.
As long as we’re putting on our deerstalker caps to ferret out skullduggery in a UNSC/ICAO/OSCE investigation, the document below may be helpful as a ready reference to every trick in the book.
https://twa800project.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/affidavit-of-hank-hughes.pdf
Now, since we’re bound and determined to catch those dastardly Russians, we ought to remember that (1) the Ukrainian armed forces are clowns and (2) Russians are very good at ECM. Accordingly, your most interesting evidence is apt to be not in the wreckage but in the TARs and CPs, or in the EFF systems of aircraft that were present.
It would be somewhat embarrassing to go off half-cocked about the gossip of some NATO weasel on the OSCE special monitoring mission hyping agreed actions of the Trilateral Contact Group, or something silly like that.
Well, this is an interesting diversion, but at least Craig is consistent… he’s never liked Russia, or control of a business via the public sector. That was obvious from Murder in Samarkind. Maybe he’ll find a place in the “spirit of 97” labour party. I like public sector companies so I’m now well and truly without a party to support.
As I’ve said before, what was very brave of Craig was that he dared to provide evidence linking the Taliban, oil, and Enron. Perhaps this is where the billionaire/global energy cartel have found the need to get involved with MH17. Interesting diversion, but doesn’t take away the facts that MH17 had been asked to fly lower and was being tracked by fighter planes… and that the neocons had a story, complete with fake video, ready to roll remarkably quickly.
“A member of the international monitoring team said pieces of the wreckage had been cut into and changed, possibly to remove bodies”
Removing the badly decomposing bodies appears to be the first priority so some lifting of debris is to be expected in order to achieve this.
To suggest that the debris has been “changed” is something quite different, unless they simply mean that the debris has not always been put back in its precise position. If it’s being suggested that duplicate pieces are being brought in to replace the real pieces and that this is all going on under the noses of BBC reporters and OSCE observers then I have to insist: pictures or it didn’t happen.
EBBD; I wonder if the FBI evidence tampering on TWA800 was decried on national TeeVee by POTUS, or anyone else.
I do think KAL007 and TWA 800 have some relevance to MH17.