The immediate cause of the MH17 disaster was a missile shot by pro-Russian forces who mistook it for one of the military aircraft they had been regularly shooting down. It is a terrible tragedy – and tragically not unique. There have been several such events in my lifetime, including the USS Vincennes incident and the Soviet downing of a Korean airliner.
The problem is that Vladimir Putin has revived the Soviet cult of perfectionism – the idea that the state simply cannot make a mistake. That Putin-backed forces could commit an error is therefore unthinkable, as that would imply that Putin made an error in backing and supplying them. Putin cannot make errors. We have therefore seen a stream of desperate propaganda stories emanating from the Russian media, such as the allegation that it was the government in Kiev attempting to shoot down Putin himself. These narratives are aimed at the domestic Russian nationalist audience, but are accepted by the small band of ardent Putin supporters in the West.
Many people in the West, myself included, have been shocked and alienated by the rampant and vicious immorality of Western foreign policy in what I might call the neo-con era, with the ascendancy of Bush and Blair marking a step change in the open use of military force to grab natural resources – a return to the Imperial heyday. The veneer of concern for democracy and human rights layered over Guantanamo, extraordinary rendition, the curtailment of long-cherished civil rights at home and the mass compound crimes of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, led to a visceral revulsion.
Putin’s successful opposition to western designs on Syria and Iran gave the impression, quite probably correctly, that a revived Russia was the only effective obstacle to western hegemony, China being passive. But unfortunately this led some who opposed Western neo-imperialism to join in the hero worship of Putin.
The mechanisms of this vary. In my view, the largest number are people who are not psychologically equipped to fight over-mighty power everywhere, which is a lonely path, and prefer the much easier option of joining the entourage of a big power, and convincing themselves that power is good. It is comforting to feel part of a powerful team. Some of course are paid by the Russians, and you see them turning up on Russia Today both as presenters and interviewees, but these are a small section. Some were supporters of the Soviet Union.
What is perhaps most extraordinary is that, the very things which these people criticise most about Western society, Russia and Putin do much worse. At the most fundamental level, the disparity of wealth between rich and poor in Russia is far, far worse than the still appalling level it has reached in the West.
The total Russian economy is 20% smaller than the total British economy. Yet Russia has almost three times as many billionaires as the UK, and the Russian billionaires’ combined wealth is over six times the combined wealth of British billionaires.
Go figure. Yet the delusional continue to contrive to believe that Russia is an alternative to global capitalism.
Russia is not only a much more unequal society than the West. It also much worse in the field of civil liberties and media freedom. Scores of real journalists have been killed, mostly unheard of internationally. The free media has vanished. In the West, the field of opinion reflected in the mainstream media has narrowed right down. In the UK, Andrew Gilligan was sacked for telling the truth about Iraqi WMD, while his source was murdered. But the West is moving in the direction of autocracy; Russia is already there. It in no sense represents an alternative, freer society than the West.
Nor is Russia any less imperialist. Putin is in fact an extremely aggressive nationalist imperialist, as his annexations of Abkhazia and Crimea have shown. Highly significant is the legislation just passed to award Russian nationality to ethnic Russians in former Soviet states. That is racially based legislation. It means for example that 40% of the population of Kazakhstan potentially become Russian citizens, with similar figures in the Baltic states. It is highly aggressive and designed to have destabilising potential.
One fact which has become undeniably clear in the Ukraine is that the pro-Russian insurgency in the East is commanded by members of the Russian military and security forces like Strelkov who are Russian, not Ukrainian citizens, and they are under tactical and strategic supervision from Russia. Again, the self-hating fantasist tendency in the West manage to convince themselves that what is happening in East Ukraine is massive destruction of civilian populations by NATO forces.
People who are that removed from reality cannot be helped.
Much more dangerous are those who do have a grip on reality, who understand exactly what is really happening, and who don’t care. That sums up the position of almost all western governments. The truth is that the financial interests of all those Russian billionaires are completely linked in with those of the super-rich of the West. To take only the UK as an example, these are the people Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson and Boris Johnson lunch and have holidays with. These are the people who employ Gerhard Schroeder and David Owen as lapdogs.
Nobody is more annoyed than Angela Merkel at the downing of MH17, not because she cares about those dead people, but because of the massive effort she has put into ensuring that, whatever Russia does in Ukraine, German economic interests will not be affected. Germany gets most of its electricity from Russian gas, and both Siemens and Mercedes, on a daily basis, have been lobbying Merkel to make sure that nothing is done that hurts German economic interests. Cameron has been receiving the same lobbying from his banker mates. In both these cases, the politicians are being talked to by the people who finance them.
The result is that there has been a strong diplomatic push, particularly by Germany, to divert the question of sanctions on to matters of process. The problem is not Russia trying to annex bits of Ukraine and funding, arming and staffing the destabilisation of a European state. The Germans are seeking to define the problem down to whether or not Russia cooperates in various stages of the air crash investigation.
Putin will continue his dangerous expansionist nationalism because it is a self-trapping path for a politician to take; but also he is encouraged that whatever he does, nobody makes any serious moves to stop him. The people on MH17 were killed because of the pusillanimity of Western politicians, financed and guided by the financial elite.
The pathetic “sanctions” adopted by the US and EU so far have been specifically designed to be completely toothless. They target middle and lower ranking individuals without major western links anyway. None of the top ten largest Russian billionaires has been touched.
Russia’s richest man – Alisher Usmanov – is extremely close to Putin and as chairman of Gazprominvestholdings has been directly involved for a decade in pressurising Ukraine, and was also Putin’s chosen instrument for closing down the free media. But you won’t see Usmanov on any sanctions list – he has 10% of Facebook, 29% of Arsenal FC, the most expensive mansion in Surrey and numerous other western connections, not to mention he is Gerhard Schroeder and David Owen’s direct boss.
Much has been said of the 1.2 billion dollars contract for two amphibious assault vessels Russia has ordered from France. Amphibious assault! Where?
But, actually much more interesting, 1.2 billion dollars incredibly happens to be the combined value of four of the World’s largest luxury yachts, which met together off Cap Ferrat and Antibes from 10 to 16 June this year. They are Dilbar, Madame Gu, Grand Bleu and Hermitage.
In Putin’s Russia, government, organised crime and secret services are absolutely integrated. All were well represented at the series of meetings that took place on those yachts, where deals were done on everything from metal prices to heroin – and Ukraine. If US drones had wanted to do some good in the world, there was their target, but they were too busy killing some 16 year old kid, and numerous bystanders, in Waziristan or Yemen for a dangerous interpretation of the Koran. None of the people at those meetings will appear on any sanctions list, though they are the men who rule Russia with Putin. They will all still be very welcome in boardrooms in London, Berlin and New York.
If Europe had followed from the start the excellent leadership offered by Radek Sikorski, the passengers on MH17 would not have died. I should like to think that the European Council will start to listen to Sikorski now. But I doubt it.
Peacewisher
So shall we now go ahead and trust putin on everything? Just because he did not buy American lie on Iraq, should we now embrace him as the most trustworthy person in the world? Should for instance we trust putin that people butchered by his Communist buddy Karimov in Andijan were terrorists?
@Phil: Don’t patronise me! I wouldn’t like him if he was a mass-murderer like Bush or Blair. But he wasn’t! In fact he tried to stop the war against Iraq from happening. So who else to you see as “standing up to the neocons”? Or are you OK with what has happened in terms of war around the world since 1991?
Lord Acton’s dictum has meaning here ” All power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. …” – so too with the West, Russia, Israel to mention a few giving meaning to this truism.
@Uzbek: Glad we have a point of contact… the lie that caused hell on earth in Iraq, which still seems to be happening. He was also probably right about the lie that would have unleashed similar forces in Syria.
I don’t trust him, probably because he is a politician. But the US is the bully in the playground, and someone standing up to that bully is surely to be admired… even though, looking at other dimensions, that person may be far from perfect.
I think Mr Murray missed a category: those of us who don’t like to see fatal accident investigations mixed with politics.
Indeed an eloquent start, by a Sane Righty Foreigner, whose jaundiced view has mother Russia in the pits of hell, with nothing good that is ever to be found in those heathen lands of netherworld.
The all sane, all seeing, all wise Sane Righty Foreigner, verily knows that mad western lefties are all blind to the Russian propaganda, clearly mad western lefties have no sense, and no brains to see how blind they are then!
This All Seeing, All Wise, and Everywhere present SRF even can see the open mouths of the mad western lefties, too.
The ASAWEPSRF pulls the trump card out of the deck, we the mad western lefties have never been to Russia, so our knowledge is incomplete and we are ignorant of all facts. This kind of empirical bollocksology would have the researchers walking into reactors, hanging on from high tension electricity cables, and crawling into the car engine to make sense of how these strange things work! How can anyone detect the temperatures of the surface of the sun without ever having dunked their thermometer once in the molten sun thingys?
The Non-Slavic look, is a clue as to the visceral hatred of all things Russian, perhaps? But hey as any self respecting mad western lefty we won’t go there.
Well ASAWEPSRF further divines that none of the us mad western lefties will want to live in Russia too. Is there any end to the talents of this Uzbek in the UK?
Well what have we learned then?
Sweet FA but who cares? UITUK has had a good rant and rave, and is now feeling loads better about it all. Really if this is the calibre of rebuttal against Putin, he has no worries for sure!
However just to puncture the aura of euphoria UZITUK is residing in ;
Campaigners and charities could be classed as terrorists under wide laws
How many agencies in UK are involved in domestic survailance?
A- 6
B- None! We are British and we don’t spy on people!
C- 784 agencies
Our ASAWEPSRF should know the answer already. He also should know that the queues for food banks are getting longer by the day, and fact that no one can go to these secret food banks without the referral of the government poverty adjudicators (social workers of yesteryears and current report writers and poverty inspectors) without their say so, no food from any food bank either.
“I wouldn’t like him [Putin] if he was a mass-murderer like Bush or Blair. But he wasn’t! In fact he tried to stop the war against Iraq”
Peacewisher
Oh dear. With this you prove my point exactly. Read this.
“So shall we now go ahead and trust putin on everything?”
At least you’re consistent. Now shall we work on reading comprehension?
This debate about Putin reminds me of the hue and cry; “Snowden the traitor” The point seems to have been deliberately ignored. This isn’t about personalities, unless you believe in the personhood of corporations, so ‘hero’ or ‘traitor’ are just words to distract attention away from misdeeds and criminality of Western ‘democracies’. I don’t care if Genghis Kahn arose from the grave to call out all the hypocrites using his tactics, covertly and pusiilanimously hawking their blood diamonds. The methodology may seem different. It’s not.
I know all about Grosny, thank you very much. In 1999, that sort of destruction was really bad. I can’t condone bombing people (always an act of terrorism), but from what I remember much worse was happening in the days of Yeltsin.
Grosny was awful, but was it any worse than the bombing of Belgrade by NATO. I honestly don’t know. Was it on the same scale as any of the shock and awe operations in Iraq? Certainly not!
I’m not sure that Putin has used the Russian military too much since Grozny. From what I can remember they were attacked in Georgian provinces, so actions there in 2008 would have been self-defence.
Speaking of Georgia, one of its offspring was the brutal dictator Stalin. If it wasn’t for Stalin, we’d probably all be living under the 1000 year Reich. I’ve seen UK headlines from 1945 calling Stalin’s troops “our glorious allies”.
Enough for now…
Nice novel for a future book, I shall wait what the investigators in Farnborough will pass us by, no doubt they will want to be fast efficient and open in what they are doing and the British establishment will, of course, have no input control or access to these ‘investigators,.
Loved the bits about yachts, discussions and deals being made on arms metals and heroin, almost as if you have been on board, Craig.
Are there any corroborative statements on these highly conspicuative meetings by oligarchs?
For the sake of clarification, can any of the anti Putin front explain what standards of anglehood and agnelification does he ave to exhibit before they consider having a pint with him in the pub?
The fact the Putin is being held to higher standard than the rest of the carpetbaggers is a bit of mystery too, can there be any explanation about that too?
On one side we have the Porky-shencko the known inveterate liar and cheat, along with his sponsors the US, UK, and agents of the the later in EU, whom are know liars and warmongers, in the pay of the banksters and zionist vermin. In the other corner we have Putin, in any given pissing contest the baddie on our side way outweigh Putin hands down, yet to find the attacks on anyone pro Ptuin (is puzzling) any reason why is this to be the case?
Peacewisher what an ironic name, you only want peace if Putin tells you to want peace.
5 videos the Israeli military wish you’d stop sharing on Facebook and Twitter | Yvonne Ridley
http://yvonneridley.org/analysis-and-opinion/5-videos-the-israeli-military-wish-youd-stop-sharing-on-facebook-and-twitter/
Craig; This post was just flypaper for Craig’s minions, because he can’t really believe this shit.
Peacewisher
“I know all about Grosny, thank you very much.”
OK so did know that Putin was a mass murderer like Bush/Blair when you were saying he wasn’t a mass murderer like Bush/Blair. How odd.
“Grosny was awful, but was it any worse than the bombing of Belgrade by NATO.”
Fucking hell. You are actually asking if one massacre was “worse” than another? What a fucking question. Worse. Better. As if we are discussing brands of sunglasses.
You know the answer Peacewisher. The answer is: they were both bad.
You have to ask yourself how you can even get into a such a pickle to even ask such a question.
Of course our government is a big, corrupt killing machine. But so is Russia.
The wars continue exactly because people continue to choose their favourite war machines. I prefer this brand of elites over that brand. I will fight for this flag so my elites can get even richer. Come on Peacemaker. You see the through the PR churned out by our very own killing machine. Why do you think the Russians are any different?
You don’t need to defend Putin to attack Obama. They are both the same problem that ails us.
@Anon. Three examples, because two clearly wasn’t enough:
1. Iraq…. would have been peace if Putin had been listened to, and 1 million lives wouldn’t have been lost. Many lives lost this year
2. Libya… as above, but regime change not invasion so losses much smaller… but continue
3. Syria… Putin was listened to, avoiding further bloodshed.
I’m sure I can find more examples if you want them. Oh yes…. Belgrade, Kosovo.
‘Spetsnaz’? Nope. FBI. It’s all good ‘cuz Putin ‘bad’.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant
“Monteilh was involved in one of the most controversial tactics: the use of “confidential informants” in so-called entrapment cases. This is when suspects carry out or plot fake terrorist “attacks” at the request or under the close supervision of an FBI undercover operation using secret informants. Often those informants have serious criminal records or are supplied with a financial motivation to net suspects.
In the case of the Newburgh Four – where four men were convicted for a fake terror attack on Jewish targets in the Bronx – a confidential informant offered $250,000, a free holiday and a car to one suspect for help with the attack.
In the case of the Fort Dix Five, which involved a fake plan to attack a New Jersey military base, one informant’s criminal past included attempted murder, while another admitted in court at least two of the suspects later jailed for life had not known of any plot.
Such actions have led Muslim civil rights groups to wonder if their communities are being unfairly targeted in a spying game that is rigged against them. Monteilh says that is exactly what happens. “The way the FBI conducts their operations, It is all about entrapment … I know the game, I know the dynamics of it. It’s such a joke, a real joke. There is no real hunt. It’s fixed,” he said”
@Phil: I don’t see the current Red Army as a brutal killing machine, and I’m sure their main concern is defence in the “looking after your own territory”, rather than Orwellian sense. Grosny was terrible. Of course it was. However, give Putin credit for never repeating it. Blair was a serial offender. He did Iraq, Belgrade, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, and Iraq again. Cameron & Hollande did Libya, and were very disappointed to be outvoted regarding Syria.
You are making Russia out to be as bad, if not worse, and that really doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny.
Just read the Ukrainian SBU have confiscated and censored the tapes from the air traffic controllers.So that explains why we’ve heard nothing.
So the evidence that could really help is all being kept secret by either Ukraine or the US.
The Russians have probably their own tapes of the ATC conversations.
There was a far fetched story in the beginning about an ATC guy called Carlos… a Spanish speaker who had been very active on Twitter about the incident just before the crash.
The news that there was Ukrainian fighter up there begins to lend creedence to what he is purported to have tweeted. He also tweeted that the Defence Dept knew nothing but the Dept of Interior did.
Well that’s another fine conspiracy you got me into!!!!
I’m afraid that the entire investigation is fuster-clucked. Whether or not rod/pin type ballistics were used, the fuselage damage (one pic in particular) would have been revealing, but now neither side will achieve the ‘aha’ moment and the debate will continue to the point of exhaustion, just like the ‘grassy knoll’. One thing is for certain; someone directed the flight directly over a hotly contested zone, and no one (not even a professional pilot) could be so ignorant of the danger zone.
Charles Crawford
Jolly decent of you to help pull Craig out of the quicksand.
If Russia was not at the beck and call of the NWO elite, how come Russia supported Assad against the NWO’s jihadists, thus ensuring the complete destruction of Syria for Israel instead of a swift regime change? Craig is right. They are all in it together.
Ra Ra jolly good sport. Muslim’s being murdered by Muslims.
British, 13 year old public schoolboys’ dreams. Play the Asians against the Arabs, the Shi’a against the Sunni and the US against Russia. Eton toff uses Russian President as fag on telephone.
Waking up to the real world, all of the efforts of the US to subjugate South America have failed. All of the efforts of the US to subjugate Africa have failed. All of the efforts of the US to subjugate the Muslim world have failed and China is equally un-deceivable.
You can pull the wool over some of the world some of the time, but you can’t pull the wool all the time. The false flags like MH370 and MH17 just mount up and draw ridicule on the losers’ desperate attempts to retain control in a changing world.
In S/2014/510 item 11 the UNSC “Demands that those responsible for this incident be held to account and that all States cooperate fully with efforts to establish accountability.”
The obvious way to handle that is with a UNSC referral to the ICC. However, the ICC has latitude to define the situation in a way that makes sense to them. If the aerial incident can’t be judged in isolation from the conflict as a whole, ICC can assert jurisdiction over the whole can of worms, which, unsurprisingly, involves a lot of the same questions as Nicaragua v. United States of America. What fun, re-trying those questions, not in the ICJ but in the ICC! No end of tits in the wringer.
Peacewisher
“However, give Putin credit for never repeating it. Blair was a serial offender. He did Iraq, Belgrade, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, and Iraq again. Cameron & Hollande did Libya, and were very disappointed to be outvoted regarding Syria.”
Do you even read what other people say as you churn out the same thing over and over?
Yes Blair, Bush, Cameron, Obama, Hollande, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all are very bad people. However, so is Putin. They are all corrupt leaders of killing machines.
I say they are all bad. You prefer one killer over others.
You are an idiot. Your feeble minded analysis sustains all the killers and their killing machines.
@Phil: I’m an idiot because I see an option for peace brokered by a previous offender?
All political leaders seem to be corrupted by power. Some leaders don’t get totally corrupted or are pulled back from the brink, maybe for pragmatic reasons. Good for them. Hollande seems to have pulled back. Good for him! Why does appreciating a leader taking a principled stand against the neocons make me an idiot?
Peacewisher
You consider yourself in a position to declare the butcher of Grozny forgiven. Just one of the reasons why you are an idiot. See my previous comments for others.
Who said the IRD is dead?
Mind you, not much use creating a faux dissident if you can’t cash the chip when the going gets tough.
And the going is getting tough: the US narrative is falling apart for the good and simple reason that it is a transparent pack of lies.
Charles Crawford,
Patently stupid post earlier.
You are one of the few posters on this thread that has decided which side did the deed yet have,as yet,zero evidence for your position.
Yet the vast majority of posters here are advocating caution until more facts emerge yet you lazily brand them conspiracy theorists.
Sit back for one quiet minute and actually read the thread and consider your post.
You’ve made a lazy and casual inversion of what’s being said by mosr posters here and,in fact,its your position,completely devoid of proof that most resembles conspiracy theory.
Very poor Charles,very poor.
It was interesting to see the RT journalist who resigned from RT on the Andrew Marr show. She said that she believed there was a place for a counter narrative, but she had over time lost patience with RT’s manipulation of that counter narrative which came to a head over MH17. I was amazed to hear Andrew Marr say that we all check out RT for its counter narrative from time to time.
The internet is great because it allows us to read all the world’s newspapers (sometimes in rather odd google translations).
It is a shame that we do not have our own strong counter narratives in this country. Of course they are always spun by whoever is able to exercise control, but we can but try.
Craig’s chums at work in Odessa, albeit in a minor key:
http://youtu.be/gWKByIuzkJk
Now in a major key:
http://youtu.be/H4dJRnI-X8Q
@Fool: Well picked up. Andrew Marr was probably revealing more than he should when he admitted there was no viable counter narrative in the UK. How things have changed – plenty of counter narrative over Iraq in 2002-3, I seem to remember.