“You have had to live with the missile threat from Gaza for fourteen years now. But now you face a new threat, the tunnels Hamas have built running here from Gaza. How concerned are you about that?”
Incredibly, that really was a question asked by BBC journalist Stephanie Bell of an Israeli man, just broadcast on BBC1. So far over 600 Palestinian civilians have died compared to two Israeli civilians (one of whom was a Bedouin who as a matter of policy are denied air raid shelters). Yet the BBC continues to pump out the narrative that the “problem” is Hamas attacks on Israel.
There are many other more interesting questions Stephanie Bell might have asked. Here are some:
“Do you ever wonder about the lives of the Arab families who lived here before they were removed by force? Whether any of them are now living in Gaza and under those bombs and shells”
“Do you honestly believe that this land is yours because God said so?”
The BBC had also been reporting as credible Israel’s appalling denials that it massacred those families in the UN school, and completely unsubstantiated claim it was stray Hamas fire that did it. The UN have confirmed that Israel has regularly been hitting UN schools and medical facilities.
“But Uzbek, criticising “the West” while failing to criticise other governments does no direct harm, and the “West” could do far more good for the people of those other governments if it put its own house in order first; without that, it lacks moral credibility.”
The theme tune of fellow travellers and useful idiots throughout the years. Some of us have moral standards that we seek to apply universally.
Uzbek in the UK, there is another matter too. The UK government allies with the US government. By virtue of democracy (such as it is), US actions are made in the name of voters. When people criticise “the West”, there is often a strong element of “not in my name”.
ESLO, yes, I’m sure your attempts to undermine and discredit the man who stood up to torture in Uzbekistan demonstrate your excellent moral superiority.
@Pykrete
Yes, I agree with your statement. Completley agree. But My response was to the call from Tito to “Ban on lobbying has to be made a crime by international law. Israel is so powerful today because of lobbysts meddling with the politicians in America, Europe, Russia, etc. This has to stop. Israel is now a cancer on the planet. It needs treatment.”
I was telling him that there is no such thing as lobbying in Russia (not Israeli not any other) but full and rampant corruption which is already illegal by Russian Law. But it does not stop putin and co (and other blokes not to say at least Usmanov) benefiting hugely from corruption. Will Tito now be calling making ILLEGAL issue illegal again? And then making it Illegal 3 times. Will it help?
ESLO, there are those who criticise diverse abuses, those who concentrate on certain abuses, those who don’t criticise at all, and those who perpetrate abuse. I’ve ranked these in decreasing order of morality. It would seem, by your repeated denigration of their morals, that you’d like those who criticise less than universally to leave the field of debate. You make no attempt to build bridges, enhance communication, advance understanding, or find points of agreement to work forward from. Instead, you attempt to sabotage my attempts to do so with Uzbek in the UK. If you believe in unity to oppose oppression, you’ve an odd way of working for it.
@Clark
As mentioned by ESLO you need to bring up your moral standard, universalise them. You cannot criticise your neighbour for damping rubbish in your garden and not criticise another neighbour for damping rubbish in 4th neighbours garden just because as it happens this neighbour (whom you do not criticise) agreed to sign under your complaint letter to the council in your support. And if you do, you cannot then claim to be trustworthy person with good integrity.
If one decided to side with another knowingly that this another is causing harm to someone, one cannot be called moral knight. One is only complicit with another’s harm causing capabilities. And on this blog I see that this is happening again and again. So called moral knights (whom I call simply Mad western lefties) cry out loud about Israels/US/UK crimes against humanity while deliberately feeding readers (who have not yet been leftisised to the extend of loosing their consciousness) propaganda from another side.
How do you think I should behave?
Mark Golding
At the time, I posted the link above, I hadn’t actually watched the video as I had to go out. Now I’ve seen it I’m close to tears.
She predicted it a month in advance…It’s devastating evidence.
Turn on the Translation Captions
“Video: Recorded at least one month prior to MH17 Crash, published with ENG subs on June 18, 2014
Note: Pay close attention starting at 01:10”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE
Tony
@Clarke
For example. The way that Mr Murray stands against western governments I fully support. He criticised and continue to criticise them but at the same time when he sees dark side in those who are supposedly allied with him (by also criticising west) he also criticise them. For him integrity is paramount. Thus my respect and even though I disagree with some of his ideas and calls I fully support his integrity.
And this (integrity) MUST be paramount for everyone who has put moral knight armour on his/her shoulder.
And those who do otherwise deserve only contempt not at least for twisting the truth when it suits them.
Callowaay on Gaza. Long but worthy of a listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0gEzPG82pc#t=21
Callowaaaay? Sorry. Galloway.
Uzbek, I agree that ideally, everyone would universalise their criticism. Personally, I cannot; I can’t even learn enough about one conflict to be thoroughly informed about it, let alone all such conflicts. I’m a tech with a head full of computer stuff; international politics isn’t my life.
Compassionately. People are more often wrong than evil. Relate your experiences from Uzbekistan. When people post untrue assertions or link to misleading articles, just post a correction and/or a link to the facts. Facts can change some people’s minds. Eventually.
I know you’ve been unfairly criticised by commenters on this site, while also being pressured by other Uzbeks; it is all most unfair upon you. Strength and best wishes to you.
The sad thing is, this is supposed to be satirical, but comes across as straight reporting.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/israel-palestinians-given-ample-time-to-evacuate-t,36527/
Uzbek in the UK,2:02 pm:
I agree that this is an ideal to be worked towards, but you can’t expect people to arrive at their destination until they’ve travelled the road for a long time… Have patience.
I entirely disagree, because they are not attempting to deceive, but have been deceived themselves (as we all are to some extent). If you treat them with contempt, they’re likely to go even further toward the opposing viewpoint. If they feel that their opinion is routinely suppressed or ridiculed by the powers-that-be, they are likely to become over-defensive (ie aggressive) when they argue with you.
Uzbek, it’s a hard road. I’m personally sorry for the unfair accusations you’ve suffered at this site.
Rabbi David Eliezrie, Yorba Linda
Then the good rabbi goes on to say Gazans must repudiate Hamas, although none so far will accept zionists must repudiate the satanic creed of zionism, and so far none ever accept that Isreal proper is only an eight mile stretch of land that was supposed to be like Lichtenstein or Monaco a sort of private domain for the house of redshield, and no this aberration that is bent on genocide and ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population in favour of the migrants coming from US, Europe and elsewhere.
As the killing goes on now the three more Palestinians shot dead in the West Bank
The article as usual portrays the Palestinian trouble makers, and for the sake of keeping up the façade in the middle in passing in a single paragraph points out;
Freedom to practice their religion is not the point of the debate though. How dare the Palestinians protest about the destruction of Gaza?
Good points Tito
@Clark
The problem that these people mislead others intentionally and on purpose.
You are right that one cannot (possibly) learn about all conflicts (unfortunately) happening on our planet. BUT one MUST learn everything possible about the conflict he/she is commenting on, or at least listen to more than one side. This was/is not a case with regards to conflict in Ukraine. What I see (and I know something about history of both Russia and Ukraine) is simple one way street. The way that benefit perpetrators. How are they (so called moral knights) are different from the very people (western governments) they criticise? They too twist truth when it suits them. They too deliberately mislead and make other believe what they say by pretending to be trustworthy and well intentioned.
Uzbek, you’re right that some commenters sometimes mislead deliberately. But you should still excuse them to some extent because they believe it to be necessary in order to counter propaganda. I disagree, I think that only facts are durable, but I recognise the difference in motivation between Blair lying to start an attack on Iraq, and a commenter here lying because they think they have to counter lies like Blair’s.
People aren’t always very clever; you generally have to do some of their thinking for them 😉
Collapse of Ukraine Government: Prime Minister Yatsenyuk Resigns amidst Pressures Exerted by the IMF
Clark
I do not mind accusations. At least it shows that these people are not capable of entering discussion and resort to insults.
I disagree with this “because they are not attempting to deceive, but have been deceived themselves”. I have asked many times and times again to learn about history of both sides. Listen to both sides before coming up with comments of accusation of one side to the benefit of another. Unlike me these people grew up here (in western society) where access to the information was much more open than the one I grew up in. How comes that it took me only few years to catch up and for people who from birth had access to the information takes never to do it? Are they stupid? If yes, should they then be paid attention to?
I was brainwashed to the extend you cannot even imagine. Soviet/Russian/Uzbek brainwashing technologies are way and way ahead of western. This is one of the areas where west is catching up with former soviets. BUT I learnt (still learning) and I call these people to do the same BEFORE they bluntly insist on supporting one side and ignoring everything that supports other side.
It looks to me like perfectly orchestrated deceit.
And here is the quote to finish our lovely conversation. I am sure you know who it belongs to. “In a time of universal deceit – telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
passerby
At least in Ukraine Prime Minister can resign. I have not seen this happening in Russia for the long time. Except of course the time when putin and Medvedev changed seats.
‘Some of us have moral standards that we seek to apply universally.’
ESLO- So you will castigate as racists and ethnic cleansers those who support the argument outlined in this article posted earlier by Doug the Dog ?
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Into-the-fray-Why-Gaza-must-go-368862-
FYI just in case if you argue that these views are only held by an ‘extreme minority’ in Israel, please read this list of the supporters of Mr Sherman’s ‘Israeli Institute for Strategic Studies-
http://www.martinsherman.org/category/martin-sherman-2/
As you can see, his backers include a General in the IDF, an Israeli National Security Advisor, an Israeli minister, and our old friend from across the pond, Dr Daniel Pipes- so the sentiments extruded by Sherman in the JPost article above are likely to be close to mainstream opinions in Israel now.
Is that the best you can do? Reasonable, logical, and eloquent!
Condescending upon us all O’ font of wisdom do tell how ought we not commit any thinking errors?
Everything to you looks skewed, and orchestrated, other than your inane belligerence, in a fashionable angst of teenagers! Is that the affects of unbrainwashing, (or is that dirty brain) that you have undergone? From one extreme to the other!
Frankly you have little in the way of value adding to any argument, other than derailing a thread that is about Palestine, and the barbaric behaviour of the zionist scum. This is perfectly exhibited by the support that you get from the zionist support spetsnaz assigned to this blog.
BTW how does it feel to be so wise, and so knowledgeable? When ought we discard the encyclopaedias and instead start consulting you?
Tony; So far the shadowing fighter is hearsay. We await concrete evidence from either side, but using a civilian airliner as a human shield makes sense for Kiev.
It occurred to me that this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE predicting the shootdown of a civil airliner over Ukraine – might possibly be a recent fake propaganda piece…
Well it isn’t – because some of the comments are over a month old. This proves almost conclusively that the Ukraine Government has been shadowing civilian airlines with Fighters and Bombers for at least a month. This gives massive added substance to witness reports that MH17 was followed by Ukraine Fighter Aircraft, and it is they, not The Russians, nor The Rebels that shot it down.
Now watch the Cognitive Dissonance kick in.
Extract from Youtube
“Елена Прохорова via Google+1 month ago
Militia Soldier – Elena, from Sloviansk English Subs
Militia Soldier – Elena, from Sloviansk English Subs
A brave woman from Sloviansk wants to tell the world, what she thinks about the situation. Project Anti-Maidan is just getting up on its feet. We will be thankful for any help you can give…
From:
Anti-Maidan
Views:
94
5
ratings
Time:
02:16
More in
News & Politics”
Tony
The Jpost page seems to have been withdrawn, OldMark. Funny, dat.
Phil: ANY dissent by an establishment figure is welcome. It’s rare enough. So: interesting.
Generally: if you think the BBC’s bad, take a look at today’s Times. Looks like Regev’s running it.
MC Tony Blair iz in da house….da Chineez house.
http://www.wantinews.com/news-8697062-Former-British-Prime-Minister:-the-next-year-and-a-half-Chinese-investment-over-the-past-30-years-from-more-than.html
The translation’s a bit shaky, but it’s the usual Blair guff (on a previous trip, the Chinese commented on its total lack of substance). Blair arrived hotfoot from advising Vietnam, which has a major maritime dispute going on with China, and the other end of his leash is in Bill Clinton’s hand.
Some fucking envoy to the ME.
I see the month old comments, Tony, as well as the flurry of protests including those attacking the young lady for being well-dressed.
The propaganda flows like honey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VyDtDDRUC8&list=PLCpGr3boiJOozdnhzaxOfIYp84Xu4GVzc
Ben
“but using a civilian airliner as a human shield makes sense for Kiev.”
Any evidence of this? From what I have been seeing it is quite an opposite. It is Russian side which is using human shield in their fight. Ukrainian military (unlike Russian military in Chechnya) have avoided heavy use of artillery just because high possible civilian casualties.
And here you are claiming very opposite of this.
WTF?
” From what I have been seeing it is quite an opposite. It is Russian side which is using human shield in their fight. Ukrainian military (unlike Russian military in Chechnya) have avoided heavy use of artillery just because high possible civilian casualties.”
Replace the phrase ‘Russian side..’ with Hamas and you’ll have perfect confluence.
Ben
You have not answered my question. Is it deliberate? What makes you think that Ukrainian military would lure civilian airplane into their airspace and then use it as a shield. And if they are so coward why have they not been doing it before? You might know that they lost at least 4 of their military jets. And unlike Russians they do not have hundreds of jets ready to fly and carpet bomb whoever.
” they lost at least 4 of their military jets”
Once again you answer your own question without any awareness.
Ben,
Are you deliberately avoiding answering my questions? So it takes one side to loose 4 jets to then realise that they need civilian jet cover? Interesting idea. You might well be the best military strategist since Marshal Zhukov.
On another matter. Can I please ask you what do you think about Dmirti Rogozin, Russian deputy prime minister?