We do not know who kidnapped and murdered the three children in Palestine. These murders are terrible and need to be investigated. You cannot investigate a murder with bombs and tanks. Tony Blair’s immediate bandwagon-jumping and rush to blame Hamas is typical of a man who has caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands through his urge to fix the facts around the policy.
Six Palestinian children have been killed by Israeli forces in the past three weeks. That did not get lead headlines in the mainstream media. I should note in fairness that the BBC World News at 9.00 am this morning did mention it, but on standard form that will quickly get censored out of future bulletins.
I don’t recall Tony Blair rushing out press releases as a result if the deaths of those Palestinian children. How exactly does Blair believe his ghoulish publicity seeking on the back of this terrible tragedy is helping anything, except perhaps his long term money-making potential?
I doubt that Hamas killed the children. It would make no sense given its strategy of joining a unified Palestinian leadership and entering the diplomatic dialogue. It must be possible that the children were murdered by a Palestinian individual or group outraged by the recent killings of Palestinian children. It also must be possible that they were killed by an Israeli individual or group eager to undermine the Palestinian unity process and promote the settlement agenda.
All deaths are tragic, and the deaths of younger people always feel more tragic still. Parents are mourning in Israel and Palestine. The answer is not to create more mourning parents and shattered children. All violence in Palestine must be condemned unequivocally.
12.30pm and it’s still going strong. You should hear some of the stuff being spat out. The Israel lobby is alive and well in OUR parliament.
I have never heard a similar urgent debate for one Palestinian child. On channel 81 now.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2014/july/urgent-question-israeli-teenagers-abduction-and-murder/
…seriously, no doubt the buildings were searched before demolition, and the very weapon with which the nice young settlers were cruelly murdered, with a label saying “This is the very weapon…” is now in the hands of the authorities.
Pathetic.
The Guardian online is streaming live coverage of the funerals of the murdered Jewish teenagers. I’ve never seen such a thing about any Palestinian children’s funeral.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/01/tensions-rise-ahead-of-murdered-israeli-teenagers-funerals-live-coverage
That’s what you get for being Chosen, innit? And it is well known that no Palestinian children ever get killed* and anyone who says they are is an antisemite
*every three days:
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/6185-one-palestinian-child-has-been-killed-by-israel-every-3-days-for-the-past-13-years
“Have just returned home expecting to see a torrent from the trolls! No. Zilch. Have they been told to hold back on this?”
Perhaps it is because trolls find it distasteful to try and make political capital out of the death of children whether they are Israeli or Palestinian.
End of conversation with that particular individual.
“It must be possible that the children were murdered by a Palestinian individual or group outraged by the recent killings of Palestinian children.”
I’d been expecting some tasteless speculation veering towards moral equivalence and the “Ethnic Scot” didn’t disappoint, heading off into George Galloway levels of sophistry.
…find it distasteful to try and make political capital out of the death of children
Unlike the Israeli authorities, eh, ESLO?
(pmsl)
‘Dave Harris’ You omitted Craig’s corollary.
‘It also must be possible that they were killed by an Israeli individual or group eager to undermine the Palestinian unity process and promote the settlement agenda.’
Jemand,
I don’t know if the McCanns murdered their child. I do know they are disgusting, negligent, selfish parents.
Message to BBC Radio 4 just now.
‘You mentioned that Hugh Robertson has made a statement in the House. Please would you interview Mr Robertson and ask him why the Government has never yet made a statement in the House when Palestinian children are killed by Israel? Is it because they would have to make one such statement a week?’
Has there not been a referendum yet on Blair’s trial for war crimes? He needs to be completely stripped of his powers and influence.
Speaking of children here, and making political capital out of them, it would be interesting for some historian to write a probing account of the ‘invention’ of children, from the Victorian period onward, and how this new concept of ‘children’ was almost as soon co-opted by the rich and powerful.
I think the violence against children abroad, indirectly if not directly endorsed by Britain, completely undermines the domestic rhetoric that children in this country actually matter. It completely invalidates the British family justice system, which deludes the public into thinking that the child’s interests are paramount (instead of acknowledging the base economic motivations for why things are the way they are).
At present, I take care of my children half the time, but the government refers to me as an ‘absent parent’ and charges me half of my very low income, stealing this from me and giving it to the other parent so that his/her benefits claims can be offset. I regard this theft as institutionalized violence toward children, because it has the effect of impoverishing the so-called ‘absent parent’.
I only mention all this because it seems that our leaders’ gross disrespect for the lives of other country’s children is matched by the DWP’s brutal attack on low income parents whom they deem to be ‘absent’ (but are actually very much present).
The most likely theory about the murderers does seem to me to be Palestinians acting independently of Hamas. UNless he has access to evidence we don’t, it appears that Blair’s eagerness to retain the ears of the powerful has made him unable to act rationally and independently.
Reportedly all three had extremist settler backgrounds, the eldest was 19 and of such an ultra-extreme society other even settler groups detest them, eldest almost certainly has some military experience though this is denied, the eldest, and probably all three carried arms, all three had been involved in price-tag graffiti of Palestinian homes and were en-route to meet with another group also involved in harassment of Palestinians, when they disappeared.
Tony M
Yes – doesn’t justify killing them though (I realise you didn’t say it did, but it needs to be said).
HEBRON (Ma’an) — Israeli forces in Hebron late Monday blew up the homes of two Palestinians Israel says are prime suspects in the kidnapping and killing of three teens who were found dead earlier that evening, witnesses said.
Israel style justice.
If, and it’s a big ‘if’ the two suspects are indeed guilty does it also mean their extended families are equally responsible? Are the Israelis so clever they can apportion guilt within hours of finding dead bodies yet aren’t so clever that they can find the kidnap victims whilst they are still alive? Israeli authorities claimed they knew where the students were and who had abducted them within hours of their disappearance, yet still the suspects haven’t been captured but their families have been rendered homeless on these flimsy suspicions. Just imagine the judicial process Palestinians have to endure in the not so high profile cases.
I wonder why the IDF destroyed the homes with explosives rather than the usual JCB destruction method? This episode of lawlessness appears to be moving so quickly as to appear planned in advance. The people of Hebron and other areas have just been the victims of huge crime committed by Israel …The students are just the required catalyst to legitimise this evolving and ongoing attack.
Can you provide a link to that, Tony M? The Israeli position looks even shakier if these fine upstanding Jewish boys had been persecuting Pals, er, unofficially. It doesn’t look like Hamas, more like spur-of-the-moment, based on personal resentment. Hamas might have kidnapped them and held them against Pal prisoner returns – no point in burying them.
An eye for an eye, except short-sighted Israel’s been taking eyes out pre-emptively for years including their own.
It’s OTT, Over KILL , Ethnic cleansing by death of 1 million demolitions.As the map of Palestine shows today,there are only tiny parcels of land held precariously together of what should have been the sovereign State of Palestine.
Israel’s actions of the last 10 days would have pushed any captor into getting rid of their captives if they were kidnapped. There still is no evidence of anything but retribution.
Had Israel wished for the kids back,there would’ve been some attempt to contact the kidnappers or if the state of Israel wouldn’t ,their parents would’ve as in the case of Shalit.
If every comment had to be surrounded in disclaimers and apologies and expressions of sympathy for all involved, all around, in any incident, it would become impossible to comment at all.
I formed that picture of the three some days ago, those were the notes I took before hearing today confirmation of their death, it hasn’t become inaccurate or more insensitive by events, my impression then was that they were probably already dead and did not discount inter-settler violence or one or the other having killed the other two, then himself. Israeli authorities will make sure the truth never comes out and any trail or evidence anyone could follow or find will be obliterated.
The ages of the other two I don’t know. Adults too are still someone’s child, but at what age are they criminally responsible for their conduct, do they become combatants, wilful oppressors against which resistance is legitimate. Israel arrests and detains, shoots, bombs very young children with impunity. I cannot condemn Palestinian children for defiance or disobedience, for anger, for throwing stones, it is entirely natural, with these settler groups however and the Israeli state terror apparatus, this is not comparable, that is calculated cruelty and murder and theft.
The fanaticism, hatred and irrational brain-washed justifications instilled in Israel’s own young people, a false view of the world and of history, a national persecution mania, all from an early age, is a form of mental cruelty practised against their own people, without which these young people would have lived quite different lives, much happier and for far longer, and been better persons. There is only so much sympathy to go around.
!00 eyes for an eye is more like it.
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Settlers-build-two-new-West-Bank-outposts-in-response-to-teen-deaths-361118
More fuel on the fire, please…
ESLO
1 Jul, 2014 – 1:48 pm
“Perhaps it is because trolls find it distasteful to try and make political capital out of the death of children whether they are Israeli or Palestinian.”
So you have nothing to say about the topic ESLO.
But plenty Israeli politicians and UK Friends of Israel politicians are making (and seem to be enjoying) making political capital out of this tragedy.
The same people who keep shtum when Israel commits child murders.
“Have just returned home expecting to see a torrent from the trolls! No. Zilch. Have they been told to hold back on this?” (Mary, above)
__________________________
Their silence has, however, more than been made up for by the inane chatter of the Bitches.
Up to and including the great scandal of the Israeli Lollipops!
*********************
Separation walls keep out suicide bombers – you know it makes sense!
Mr Scorgie
““…and equally robust (or non-robust, some will inevitably say) questioning of both spokesmen as well. In my opinion.”
Your opinion counts for nothing Habbabkuk because you never back-up what you say. You are a dishonest, feeble Zionist troll.”
__________________
You’re welcome to your opinion on my opinion, but at least my opinion is based on me having heard the BBC item in its entirety.
Did you hear it?
Ba’al Zevul (Chimp Assassin) (1 Jul, 2014 – 3:10 pm) wrote: […]
Possibly here, this was stuff I read http://mondoweiss.net/2014/06/maintains-missing-manipulation.html just before the weekend.
A correction, the religious settler sect the eldest belongs to apparently does not permit military conscription/service, though the comments there suggest nevertheless that one of them, presumably the 19 yr old (the other two were 16) was serving or military trained.
“Did you hear it?”
Careful, Doug. The fakir slept on a bed of nails last night and he’s quite prickly.
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
1 Jul, 2014 – 4:19 pm
“You’re welcome to your opinion on my opinion, but at least my opinion is based on me having heard the BBC item in its entirety.”
——————————————————————–
Habbabkuk you can’t even remember what program you were listening to, so you can’t back up what you say, which is something you never do anyway.
You might even be making it up.
——————————————————————
Resident Dissident, if you’re lurking in the shadows, I’m still waiting for a reply; seven days have passed.
24th June 2014
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/06/cui-bono/comment-page-4/#comments
Sophie Long is reading the 6pm News on the BBC New channels. Much emphasis being given to the top item, the funerals of the three boys.
She went to Israel with BICOM for an induction trip.
This Is How Israel Runs The British Press
By Gilad Atzmon
November 07, 2011 “Information Clearing House” — The following is a glimpse into the Israeli Hasbara’s/Mossad’s/Sayanim’s operation in the UK. It explains how Israel and its agents manage to dominate news coverage in Britain and beyond. It seems from the following leaked email as if BICOM (British Israel Communication & research Centre) runs the News desk for the BBC, Sky and the FT. I guess that last week the Guardian also joined the party. It is now an offical Israeli propaganda outlet.
Shockingly enough, not a single British paper was brave enough to report the story or publish the leaked email. Surely they know who their masters are. The message is pretty clear. British press is not trustworthy. It is as Zionised as our political system.
Bicom ’embarrassed’ by misdirected email
Source http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/national/c-16955/bicom-embarrassed-by-misdirected-email/
By Joseph Millis – Thursday 22nd September 2011
There were red faces at Bicom this week when an email from its director intended for donors was in fact sent to the organisation’s media database.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29642.htm
Bit of a slip up there BICOM. Better luck next time.
Mr Scorgie
To help you, I looked it up on the online Radio Times – it was the “Today” programme of this morning.
I’m sure the technically proficient Mary could supply the link so that you and other doubters can listen for yourselves and check my assertion that the BBC gave equal time and equaltoughness (or not) of treatment to the Israeli ambasssador and to the PA leader Mustafa Barghouti.
Now I know that this will come as unwelcome news to the BBC (and Israel) haters on here but hey, you can’t win them all!
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Condemn the murder of all young people, you know it’s the right thing to do!
And let’s not forget the 257 civilians murdered by the Kiev Nazis in Eastern Ukraine, including 14 children.
Nazis too strong a word?
Yats uses the word “subhuman” to describe the resistance. See here: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/15/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/?hpt=hp_t1
Yesterday’s Guardian was another disgraceful piece of propaganda. “Outgunned Ukraine” was the headline; “beleaguered” troops said the text. Bullshit to both. They’ve even attacked Russian border posts now; they’re desperate to provoke Russia. You can be sure the corporate media won’t ignore any Russian response.
NB the way the BBC today presented their map, with the legend “towns held by rebels” to denote…..where ethnic Russian people live !!
Was any Israeli soldier charged with this murderous killing of a 13 year old girl who had 17 bullets emptied her lifeless body? No.
Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child
Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/24/israel
Was the drilling of the gentle Imam Al-Hams debated in our most illustrious chamber? No.
Who really killed Huda Ghalia’s family?
Guardian investigation undermines military claim that Israeli shells could not have been responsible for death of girl’s family
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jun/16/israel
Was the loss of 8 members of Huda Ghalia’s family the trigger for a statement in the ‘House’? No.
Israel learns of a hidden shame in its early years
Soldiers raped and killed Bedouin girl in the Negev
4 November 2003
For 54 years the fate of a young Bedouin girl who disappeared in the Negev desert was relegated to rumour and a single entry in the diary of David Ben-Gurion, the prime minister of the fledgling Israeli state.
“It was decided and carried out: they washed her, cut her hair, raped her and killed her,” he wrote. After that the case became one of the state’s earliest secrets, and no more than hearsay passed between soldiers.
Now the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz has used previously classified army documents to reveal the full story of what Mr Ben-Gurion called a “horrific atrocity”.
/..
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/nov/04/israel1
An horrific story that reverberates where ever the marauding master race goes. It’s in the collective memory. I think the ‘Israeli’ judges spoke better than many. But this is symbolic. They treated that poor girl as one of the unteruntermenschen as they did all the rest of her olive clan and still do.
God or G-d is nowhere in it. We yearn for humanhood.
Those articles were written by Chris McGreal. Where is he now?