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The Blog That Reaches the Parts… 161
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answering vaguely the rUK option to use the Scottish Pound
…remember that Sudan split in 2011. After the decision to secede was made, then the currency was planned.
Scotland has not yet made the decision to split with the rUK.
Nevertheless, the Sudan Pound was cloned into the South Sudan Pound at parity
today, three years later, the values are approximately
1 GBP = 5.03 SOUTH SUDANESE POUNDS (SSP)
1 GBP = 10.15 SUDANESE POUNDS (SDG)
With the UK ONS publishing details on the wonderful UK economy “At the end of June 2014, public sector net debt excluding financial interventions (PSND ex) was £1,304.6 billion” that’s £1.3Trillion debt, heading for £2.6Trillion debt in 2024.
There’s no telling whether the rUK£ would remain at parity for long, or crash sooner than the Sudanese against the Ecosse£. How’s that for FUD – fear uncertainty & doubt?
“treating independence as a flash cutover”
Sorry, I don’t know what that means.
“Nothing stops government reserving money creation for itself”
Agreed, provided it has its own currency.
“That is what you’re really scared of – the threat that Scotland does it right”
Nothing about Scotland scares me in the slightest. In order for Scotland to do it right I believe it must have its own currency. No ifs or buts. I would applaud an announcement from Salmond to this effect. I don’t understand why the SNP didn’t adopt this policy from the very beginning. What’s the problem?
Gibraltar is Independent and they use the Gib Pound. Seems to work.Westminster has no quarrel there.
Scottish Pound will be fine.
replying to ‘Here’s a question’.
The 85,000 guaranteee.
Essentially that 85.000 guarantee is a ‘mythical’ or theoretical figure. Its intention is to damp down some local trouble. I am deeply sceptical that the UK could survive a financial meltdown of the scale that created a situation where everyone had to be compensated to that degree.
In that scenario, what currency would the payments be made in if there was a financial meltdown of that order? Dollars? Euros? If there was to be a scenario where the entire (those with savings) population was to be compensated to that degree, it would mean that the currency had collapsed for reasons other than financial actions or inaction. A nuclear accident of huge proportions? a monumental natural event? At that point, whatever assets you hold are irrelevant .Tins of beans might become the new currency.
So the realistic scenario is one where ‘a’ bank collapses because of some kind of insane cultish management, similar to the one at Northern Rock, and RBS where the policy of borrowing cheaper international money to finance more profitable home mortgages, hand gambling on property has led to the collapse of the bank due to changes in conditions.
Did Northern Rock collapse in such a way that guaranteed pay-outs were paid? Essentially no. Did the guarantee stop a ‘run’ on the bank-well no. There was a run. Brown was as usual hopeless(despite saving the world) He actually saved the arses of some banking chums .
Northern Rock should have been immediately nationalised.
Eventually measures were taken that led to the liquidation of assets.Not everything was lost. Although the mortgage book fo the bank was suspect it was not worthless.Houses did not dissolve in the rain overnight.
So what we are talking about is putting a measure in place to cover a limited difficulty, using some reserves, that all reasonably run governments have.It is there t provide a breathing space to allow people to go on functioning while the problem is managed to an appropriate conclusion
I see no problem whatsoever in setting that up. It is a managerial and planning issue and one of financial prudence and while it would involve some work it is far from being beyond a country that Scotland would be, with a financially and economically literate and capable employment sector to draw upon to create these mechanisms.
Adjustments of a structural kind would certainly be needed but these are manageable.
The tone of your questions is such that it is intended to create a fear that there would be no money the day after a referendum and that the banks would collapse, all at once, as soon as there is a yes vote. There is an unstated implication in the question that Scotland is help[less and that the people are incapable.
At the end of the day-Scotland is a place with good human resources, with mineral and other wealth, technical knowhow and good communications and with good educational and health and civil infrastructure ad god community relations. In reality it is these (partly hidden or unstated) assets that act as a guarantee.
“Gibraltar is Independent and they use the Gib Pound”
Gibraltar is not independent. It’s a British Overseas Territory, ie a colony. Is that what you want? You’d be able to keep the UK pound of course.
Heresaquestion:
I am not only not refusing to consider there not being a cu, I would welcome it.
This goes for mj as well, plan b is an independent currency and it would be my plan a.
Lots of folk in Eire hop across the border and bear these costs, if you want to buy a baguette in calais you convert your currency. No big deal unless your part of an international jet set that commutes internationally to do their shopping. Most of us do it where we live.
A country that issues its debts in its own currency can’t go bankrupt.
International lending institutions lend in dollars, why on earth would you want to borrow in a currency you do not control(which is the cu problem for junior partners). These institutions don’t ‘support’ countries, they exploit them.
I’ll take off the rose tinted spectacles when you take off the blinders, and you get a brain transplant.
MJ, I’m not clutching at straws, there’s a treasure trove of mendacity from the coalition to draw on if you wish to treat their statements as unreliable,even deceptive.
“A country that issues its debts in its own currency can’t go bankrupt […] why on earth would you want to borrow in a currency you do not control(which is the cu problem for junior partners). These institutions don’t ‘support’ countries, they exploit them”
At last: the case for independence and having your own currency. You ought to tell the SNP about it before it’s too late!
“I’m not clutching at straws, there’s a treasure trove of mendacity from the coalition to draw on if you wish to treat their statements as unreliable,even deceptive”
OK. Let’s keep our fingers crossed then and hope it all works out.
Good one Craig. Get off the internet and onto the ground.
I second Deepgreenpuddock’s proposal to take your Yes tour unexpectedly into “the heart of the establishment”. Not only will it shake them up you but you may force a scene that cannot be ignored. And you, more than other Yes speakers, may even swing a few votes in that environment.
At this stage you got to be bold. Go on, jump in a car, grab a megaphone and ruffle some feathers. Don’t forget the arse t-shirts!
Good luck with your tour whatever you do.
MJ
I have asked this before and you continually dodge the question.
I quite accept that independence with own currency is better in the long and even medium term, though I see advantages in the short term to using the pound.
But there are many many advantages beyond the fiscal to breaking up the UK and denting the Westminster political establishment. What I can’t understand is this – and you absolutely refuse to give a straight answer.
Why do you think voting No in the referendum, with all the comfort that would bring to the establishment working so hard for it, is better than voting yes? Is an flawed independence that can be a stepping stone, not better than the status quo? Why are you such a strong advocate of the status quo?
Please answer that without any evasions about supporting “real” independence. Do you follow the Communist Party line about Scottish independence threatening the unity of the British working class?
MJ, OK, you’re arguing that Scotland should have its own currency. Scotland only gets choices about its currency if it becomes independent. Are you arguing that the Scottish Government shouldn’t become independent of Westminster unless it declares for a separate currency from the start; that there’s something wrong with deciding about currency later?
MJ’s wilful obtuseness is intended to stall Scotland’s assertion of self-determination, which is prior to and independent of technical policy decisions like monetary policy. Why does he follow the British propaganda line and fixate on monetary policy? Because this is Tory/Labor propaganda aimed at petit-bourgeois financial insecurities. It’s the same as if he said, “Before we declare independence we MUST define our taxi regulations and design our military uniforms and decorations!” To fall for this nonsense you’d have to be an inbred Harrow old boy or something.
Gib is maybe a colony but Scotland would be a next door territory with oil.A good friend to have if RUK wants it.
Scotland wants a currency Union, Westminster says no, so peg your pound to the Pound next door until needs demand a change.The only thing that would demand a change is the RUK pound becoming unstable.
Carney had no problems with Salmonds proposals,and that is who he would have to deal with in the future.And they are a private company with private interests.Westminster parties are all acting like baby in a pram with a rattle.
If Scotland had a mainly service based economy like England I would be worried.Fortunately they produce and have an educated workforce.There’s the currency.
MJ
‘OK let’s keep our fingers crossed and hope it works out’
Glib and desperate.
Unless your working on time travel or precognition, that’s all any of us can do.
Look at it as a win win situation:
Vote yes
Win
Coalirion sticks resolutely to its heartfelt principles
Introduce own currency
Double bubble for us both
🙂
“Why do you think voting No in the referendum, with all the comfort that would bring to the establishment working so hard for it, is better than voting yes?”
Because the SNP’s policies are so flawed they will likely cause even greater hardship. I’m in favour of Scottish independence but opposed to the SNP’s frankly amateurish handling of key issues. I thought I’d said that several times before.
“Is an flawed independence that can be a stepping stone, not better than the status quo?”
No, because you’ll get eaten alive in the interim and it will cease to be a stepping stone.
“Why are you such a strong advocate of the status quo?”
I’m not. I’m simply acknowledging that the status quo can be a fearsome opponent and it will fight dirty to protect itself.
“Do you follow the Communist Party line about Scottish independence threatening the unity of the British working class?”
I don’t follow the Communist Party line on anything. In fact I didn’t know it still existed. That idea sounds stupid to me.
Are those answers straight enough for you?
Amateurish compared to who?
Who sets the benchmark for excellence in key issues?
Paul: if you think Salmond’s handling of the currency issue has been anything other than painfully amateurish then good luck to you.
I find it funny that people talk of a currency union as if it were in the power of Scottish nationalists to impose it upon an unwilling UK. I cannot imagine that Westminster would make any statement indicating that it will or will not accomodate a currency union. So nationalists cannot dismiss the issue. I suspect that Westminster will want to encourage uncertainty with its attendant fear of the unknown to support a NO outcome.
Just to be clear — the UK controls its own currency (duh!) and that control has some influence on any economy that uses that currency. If the UK does not want Scotland to share the same currency, what can Scotland do? Print counterfeit pounds? The closest thing to currency union it can impose is produce a Scottish Pound that is tied to the BP at parity with a solid guarantee. But then it has to back it’s own currency with something of real value.
That’s what they chose, I don’t agree but the question is self determination and no one else is offering it.
I’m deeply grateful for your pity, but I’d rather have an answer to my question, who available meets your exacting standards in key issues?
“I cannot imagine that Westminster would make any statement indicating that it will or will not accomodate a currency union”
It already has. The answer was no thanks.
“I suspect that Westminster will want to encourage uncertainty with its attendant fear of the unknown to support a NO outcome”
No need. Salmond is managing just fine by himself.
When civilian deaths reach Gazan levels, maybe we’ll pay attention.
http://rt.com/news/180020-ukraine-death-toll-un/
Notice how MJ shifts the ground after failing the laugh test with his currency bugaboos. Now the problem gets personalized as the cartoon bumbler Salmond because of unspecified “key” issues, as though these issues can’t be settled democratically in an emerging independent state. MJ cannot talk about Scotland’s legal right of self-determination. He’s got nothing but divert, divert, divert.
“He’s got nothing but divert, divert, divert”
Divert from what, the real issues? What are they?
MJ
13 Aug, 2014 – 1:58 pm
“Because the SNP’s policies are so flawed they will likely cause even greater hardship. I’m in favour of Scottish independence but opposed to the SNP’s frankly amateurish handling of key issues. I thought I’d said that several times before.”
Read this s-l-o-w-l-y MJ. A yes vote in the referendum is not, repeat NOT, a vote for the SNP.
After independence there will be an election and, just like before, you can vote for who you want.
Notice how MJ shifts the ground after failing the laugh test with his currency bugaboos.
What divert?
“A yes vote in the referendum is not, repeat NOT, a vote for the SNP”
So folks keep saying. The point is that the policies implemented on day one are absolutely crucial to how things will unfold in the future. Whether you like it or not the SNP is going to be responsible for those policies.
You are ssuming that Hollyrod politics and demeanour will copy the bull mastiff methods of Westminsters odorous, pompous and corrupt practise MJ.
Just look at the two sides and then see who is more relaxed, non threatening and honest about their suggestions, who manages to deliver a debate that is not led by fear and negativity or is arranged, hallo oh so important Jim Naughty, by pre-invited and coaxed audiences.
Well done Craig for taking it to the masses, when all is said and done, many many years from now, long after independence is gained, your name will be one of many that is remembered fondly.
For without bloggers like yourself, and others like Rev Campbell, Lallands Peat Worrier, Scot goes Pop, Munguins Republic and many many more, we wouldn’t be teetering on the precipice of victory, as we are now.
Some might say I’m overly cocky about victory, but I truly believe yes is in front when it comes to the polls.
Come on MJ,
Who gets your coveted imprimatur on key issues?
Are they offering independence?
Are they offering currency independence?
You’re in danger of coming across as quite the little fusspot, or a complete shithead.
here is an issue. When the Tory deliver their referendum on the EU membership, i.e ‘do you want to leave the EU’, and every inept voter votes to get out of the EU, what do you think those multinational companies do who currently using the good ship Britain as their entry into the vastly profitable EU market?
With an Independent Scotland that remains in the EU, these companies would definately consider relocating, using the well trained and eager scottish workforce. Now these facts have not even been discussed, have they.
Companies are not just here to use the City of London, rapidly diminishing itself by being antisocial, they want to sell and trade, whether this is via an Independent Scotland, maybe offering better terms than their Irish neighbours, or any other country that will have them.
But for a fast efficient change Scotland can press all the buttons and hence is a favourite to succeed.
Consider that before you vote. Independence has got all the aces for a sustainable Scotland.
Whilst England will free float in front of the New Jersey coast.
BTW+o/T, the housing bubble is about to burst, starting everywhere else but in London.
Watching the Referendum get closer,I see the Westminster mafia showing us what kind of a union it is and will be if we say no.
They are childish and avoiding the issues and issuing threats.
I can understand they want the Union to remain, but they should also be preparing for the possibility at least that Scotland says Yes and then respect democracy and work together so that both nations get the best out of it.Salmond has said time and again he wants to work together with RUK, and he thinks it our independence will benefit democracy in England and Wales.
Westminster has said,it’s our navy ,we’re keeping the ships,our RAF we’ll keep all the jets,our pound & it’s our ball and you’re no playing.
Not very responsible or grown up is it ?