The No campaign is convinced it has won the referendum over the question of what currency will be used in an independent Scotland. Being convinced they have won, they are starting to show their true feelings.
Everybody in Scotland should read the comments section on this report by the Labour supporting Guardian. That truly horrible, sneering tone is a foretaste of what is in store for Scotland if it votes No in the referendum.
States have currencies. Ireland, Norway, Iceland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, all have currencies, some unique and some shared. Scotland might keep the pound. Otherwise the Scottish economy is perfectly strong enough and Scots perfectly capable of taking another of the many available options. It is entirely a media construct that this is the issue that can halt independence – a construct initiated by George Osborne in cahoots with Darling and their media lackeys.
What is undeniable is that these people actually would act with deliberate malice towards an independent Scotland. The hatred of the Scots is there for all to see. This is not the Telegraph or the Mail. It is the Guardian. Read the comments and judge of their tone and intent. Do you really want to get down on your knees before this hatred, and surrender?
It was always the case that the big knives would come out. The referendum is a perfect illustration of how the democratic process has become simply a fear mongering process of traducing the idea of independence.
That said,and whilei think Alex Salmond was more controlled, while Darling became ejaculatory, indignant and blustery, that was not the way the media have portrayed the debate.
The ‘project fear’ question was not rammed home strongly enough.Darling was not forced to account for this travesty of democracy. It was a telling point and Alex Salmond should have been much more forceful and demanding of an answer of why the No campaign had adopted these tactics.
Darling deserved contempt but Salmond did not deliver it. He was too nice and too sanguine. This is a passionate process and he needs to become prepared to be a political ‘killer’. His anxiety was to not lose the debate.Let’s get some real work done and finish that scabrous political failure ‘Dilettante Darling’.
Let’s say the truth out loud that Darling and his organisation, and other No campaigners are abject anti-democratic political failures. Brown is an abject political pudding and bag of purulating hypocrisy that did not have the guts to seek validation as PM by an election. How anyone can be swayed by such is breathtaking.
Let’s get Nicola Sturgeon out-she is a powerful weapon and needs to become more prominent.
The currency issue is relatively simple and I am surprised that Alex Salmond was not a little more aware of the danger here and did not meet Darling’s plan B comment more robustly. After transition with the pound -it is likely that a Scottish currency would be needed and internal adjustments would be needed to bring this about. It would happen over some years.
Alex Salmond has to be honest and forthright here-Independence is a great prize but it will be awkward and difficult for a while, partly because the established elite will act in petulant buggeration of the process, and simply partly because these things are always hard-edged processes.
Craig- the comment above may not have hit the mark. It is all getting a bit desperate, and you have every right to be exasperated but you are a useful asset that needs to be deployed usefully.Your blog has a good following. Pity it is a target for some very odd people bit the game is not yet over. Darling may have done some kind of lucky toe poke that has glanced off the bar.
I sense that if there is a NO vote, the idea of a social democracy, a mixed (rational) economy, social justice and investment in aspects of life that are important such as education and health will dwindle away. The main point about the referendum is that it partially answered the screaming inadequacy of the current moribund and corrupt parliamentary and governmental system. A referendum YES will have far reaching benefits for England Wales and Northern Ireland by increasing accountability of politicians and their PR and media lackeys. i am at a loss to know why anyone would not desire such an outcome. It is the active participation of people in politics that is at stake here.The no vote is a vote for acquiescence to all the forces that a ruthless establishment wishes to apply.a no vote is a vote for the suppression of dissent and political activism.
I am feeling impassioned enough to actually get out campaigning. i will be draping the largest saltire i can contrive over the front of my residence, which has an elevated position overlooking Aberdeen
One of the absurdities of Scotland is that if you were to ask any number of No voters what their nationality is-they would say ‘Scottish’. It is a ludicrous position.
I know this is correct because just two days ago i spoke to a person who was asking that question and the overwhelming majority of people born in Scotland claimed Scottish ‘nationality’ and did not define the question logically (i.e. in UK we have British ‘nationality’ and British passports). Such absurdities need to be highlighted.
As TonyM said the real surprise is that you still expect anything different from the media. You still expect a fair hearing? How many times can anyone be shocked at the everyday?
The Guardian is an establishment paper marketed at lefties. Grasp this and move on beyond daily shock.
It would have been helpful to have included a couple of comment examples in the article. I went to read some and found a handful of nationalist comments before returning here. So I am only going on the examples posted by Brian and Richard.
Some racist comments probably do exist but I wonder why no one posted an example here. These comments bang on about currency and Salmond. They are quite mild. They are stupid. They are propaganda. But they are not racist, homophobic nor full of hatred. Most of them are mocking Salmond which I wholeheartedly commend. All politicians are fair game.
The targeting of Salmond, rather than Scotland and the Scots, is clearly intended. You are being played to play the victim.
Over sensitivity regarding racism is a sign of weakness. Your cries of racism, where in reality your favourite politician is getting trashed, make you shrill rather than assertive.
One thing is for certain. Don’t let them set the agenda. Them banging on about currency is a sure sign you should be elsewhere. Dismiss the currency argument briefly then kick them where it hurts!
Don’t bleat “this currency conversation is a red herring from racist bullies who have nothing but the false currency debate to discuss. They are wrong about this currency debate and they use nasty tactics.”
Shout “fuck off you posh English scum”.
I am sorry. I have no idea why I am having these daily advise surgeries. You discuss currency and racism all
youthey want.I am sure there is room for diplomatic wiggle, but, surely, Brussels would press Scotland to join the Eurozone. All new members of the EU since the inception of the Euro have had to sign up for the currency and the EU would not want to have another semi-detached member like the current UK.
Alastair
“surely, Brussels would press Scotland to join the Eurozone!
Yes you would have thought so. It is easy to imagine reasons for all parties to not want to discuss this.
While thinking about the referendum and the campaign i came up with the idea of making a smock sort of garment to wear around Glasgow. On the back its has a large bare arse with a leering faces of Nigel Farage, self-rutter B’Jesus Johnson, Cyclops Brown, and Dilettante Darling, and says Vote No and place a kiss on the their arses.
On the front it says Vote Yes and say hello to Social Democracy.
Any suggestions of how to do the graphics. How does one print onto a fabric without huge hassle and cost. Any Tee shirt printers around? Advice?
Craig
You see hatred where in reality there is an elites PR campaign trashing your politics. You react and thus create/entrench division yourself. This is the nationalism fire you play with. This is how well intended men start conflict.
Any Tee shirt printers around? Advice?
I am not now nor have I ever been a t-shirt printer. But I believe you can get iron-on transfers which you can print on an ordinary PC printer from your innovative artwork done in Photoshop (£££) or The Gimp (absolutely free). All you need then is an iron. And perhaps someone who knows how these are used. I don’t.
“artwork done in Photoshop (£££) or The Gimp”
Assuming you are using windows then you can probably knock together a simple design using the “Paint” application. This is free, easier to use and will do the job.
Neil-everyone with a brain has mixed feelings about their origins.england is home to petty chauvinism, the BNP and other abominations.It is also home to countless other things.There is much to admire in England. The point about the referendum is that it will trigger a collapse of the trqvesty of democracy thqt is Westminster-‘the lords’ almost a joke but not at all funny. A two and a half party/-one party system, where Nulab merges neatly and seamlessly with the Lib dems and the Tories to form an unshakeable policy unity that moves relentlessly to the diminution of dissent,equality, liberty and justice and the suppression of any competing collective to the class exclusive ‘collective’ that the parliamentary system has become.
A yes vote for Scotland is a yes vote for all parts of England where the sense of democratic self-determination still persists. In other words everywhere in England except the centre of London.
A no vote is a vote for a continuaton of Osbourne and Mandelson schmoozing with gangster oligarchs, a vote for Bilderberg, a vote for Kissinger and an endorsement of his war crimes, a vote for Blair and Campbell’s dodgy dossier and the wanton slaughter of civilians by professional soldiers, a vote for Brown’s ‘financial acumen’ and consistency of policy and ‘democratic ‘ instincts, for BoJo’s sociopathy, for disinvestment in education and health, a vote for Gove spurious ideological shennanigans and IDS’s bare faced dissimulation and abject stupidity.
A country cannot be truly free, independent and sovereign, unless it has the power to issue its own currency.
It cannot control its economy to create employment , generate taxes and support social infrastructure.
Many people are confused about money. Money is not wealth, it can lose its value overnight by hyperinflation.
It is a means of exchange , a token. A tool to enable smooth operation of trade and industry. The Govt gives it value because it accepts it as taxes and enforces its use by the power of its laws.
The wealth of a country is in its natural resources,which includes the ingenuity of its people to exploit those resources and create real wealth from agricultural land, water, forestry, minerals/oil/gas, fisheries, manufacturing etc.
To exploit these resources a Govt can kickstart an industry by issuing a grant of money. The successful business will generate employment and wealth. The repayment of the granted money is returned in the form of tax, both from the workers and corporation. Thus the issued granted money is returned and cancelled, the wealth from labour and production remains.
The US dollar is a fiat currency (as is the pound sterling, the euro and most other major currencies). This means, it is monopoly money. There is no gold reserve that its values are pegged to. It is simply made up. So how does money get made? A private, for profit central bank prints it and lends it to the government (or other banks) at an interest rate. So the Central Bank prints £100, and gives it to the government on the basis that it returns £101. You may have already spotted the first flaw in this process. The additional £1 can only ever come from the Central Bank. There is never enough money. The second issue is that all money is debt.
This used to be the way pretty much all of the money in circulation came to be. That is, until Investment and Retail Banks got tired of the Central banks monopoly on debt based currency, and kicked off the commercial money supply. You might assume that when you take out a loan or other form of credit, a bank gives you that money from its deposit reserves, and you then pay back that loan to the Bank at a given interest rate – the Bank making its profit on the interest rate. You would be dead wrong. The Bank simply creates that loan on a computer screen.
Let’s say you are granted a loan for £100,000. The moment that loan is approved and £100k is entered on the computer – that promise from you to the bank creates £100k for the bank, in that instant. This ledger entry alone creates the £100k, from nothing. Today, over 97% of all money that exists, is made this way. It is digital money no different from the credit on a bank credit card.
This is what drove the dodgy lending practises that created the last crisis in 2008. But since then, the failure to regulate the markets means that while bailouts hit public services and the real economy – banks were free to continue the same behaviour, bringing the next crash. They were also issued with free ‘play money’ as in Quantitative Easing to the tune of £345 bilion.
Govt have ceded control of 97% of the money supply to the private banking system, who invest mainly in the Financial casino sector , Insurance and real estate. This creates little employment and zero wealth, but does create mega amounts of more digital money ,leading to inflation as evident in London.
Scotland will never be really free until its future Govt takes control of its own money creation by issuing its own currency.
” surely, Brussels would press Scotland to join the Eurozone. All new members of the EU since the inception of the Euro have had to sign up for the currency ”
Yes indeed although they could prevaricate and put it off for a number of years as Poland has.
Prior to joining the Euro though a country’s currency has to spend at least two years in the Exchange Rate Mechanism (Mk.II) so at some point Scotland will need to establish it’s own currency.
As several contributors have noted, the Grauniad comments thread includes plenty of mockery of the Nats in general and Salmond in particular. This isn’t ‘anti Scottish hatred’ by a long chalk.
To reiterate, the most likely scenario post independence on the currency front is the following-
1.There will be no formal ‘currency union’ and the larger party (rUK) doesn’t want it.
2. Scotland will however continue to use sterling, rUK will have to accept that, rather as the ECB accepts that Bosnia and Montenegro have the Euro as their currency. As Scotland will continue to use sterling, and have the Queen as Head of State, its relation to rUK in 2016 would be analogous to that of Ireland in the 1922-49 period.
3. In the longer term, an independent Scotland will have to undertake to join the Euro; Brussels will make this a condition of Scotland’s continued membership of the EU. Whether Scottish membership of the Euro ever comes to pass will depend on whether the Euro continues to exist in its present, unwieldy form
UK plc’s been quite happy to let the dear Jocks use their own funny money in Scotland (since 1696, so as long as it’s been in the UK, then) subject to checks and balances. For some time after 1845, Scots notes had in most cases but not all to be backed by English money, whatever that meant. Since 2009, the banks have to back their issued currency with their own reserves.
I see the Clydesdale Bank will be issuing the first plastic banknotes in Britain next year. They will carry a picture of the Forth Bridge. And good luck to them.
Ba’al – Komodo
“Any Tee shirt printers around? Advice?
I am not now nor have I ever been a t-shirt printer. But I believe you can get iron-on transfers which you can print on an ordinary PC printer from your innovative artwork done in Photoshop (£££) or The Gimp (absolutely free). All you need then is an iron. And perhaps someone who knows how these are used. I don’t.”
__________________
Perhaps your frend and alter ego “Afrend” could help?
🙂
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
8 Aug, 2014 – 7:36 am
“Puerile gesture politics. Costs nothing and achieves even less.”
——————————————————————–
It has achieved a lot really Habbabkuk. The typical knee-jerk squealing of the Zionists has caught the attention of the media.
Who said “there’s no such thing as bad publicity”?
KingofWelshNoir
8 Aug, 2014 – 8:38 am
“Walk into any English pub when Scotland (or Ireland for that matter) are playing and you’ll see the punters roaring in genuine support for ‘the Jocks’.”
———————————————–
Not if they are playing against England of course when the roars will be “fuck off you haggis- munching bastards.”
Fred
8 Aug, 2014 – 8:45 am
“The principles of democracy are simple, a government will act in the interests of those who vote for them and give them their power.”
———————————————–
C’mon Fred you’re being silly; have you been smokin’ the haggis again?
What about people that don’t vote for the winning party?
The Grauniad comments seemed pretty tame to me tbh. And what can you expect from people who waste their time commenting in a fully controlled, zionist, mainstream media rag.
Clearly the yes campaign has played straight into the hands of the unionists with their badly thought through approach to the vital currency question. Do they really not realise how the world turns, and how the London money power operates? How quaint. Or maybe they do realise, which is even worse in it’s implications for so called “Independence”.
There will be no credible Independence without your own money, and your own central bank. But you don’t seem to realise this, or even how the worlds fiat money system works.
The clue is in the name of your proposed central bank, the Bank of England. It is nominally “nationalised” but in practice is fully under the control of the private, money power banks. And if you put your faith in them, which appears to be the only option on the table, then you really will have have been sold a pup
“That truly horrible, sneering tone is a foretaste of what is in store for Scotland if it votes No in the referendum.”
Of course those arguing the other way never adopt a horrible sneering tone – especially not in the comments here!
“Not if they are playing against England of course when the roars will be “fuck off you haggis- munching bastards.”
Very difficult to munch a haggis – they just melt in mouth which is surprising given they are so difficult to capture.
“To reiterate, the most likely scenario post independence on the currency front is the following-
1.There will be no formal ‘currency union’ and the larger party (rUK) doesn’t want it.
2. Scotland will however continue to use sterling, rUK will have to accept that, rather as the ECB accepts that Bosnia and Montenegro have the Euro as their currency. As Scotland will continue to use sterling, and have the Queen as Head of State, its relation to rUK in 2016 would be analogous to that of Ireland in the 1922-49 period.
3. In the longer term, an independent Scotland will have to undertake to join the Euro; Brussels will make this a condition of Scotland’s continued membership of the EU. Whether Scottish membership of the Euro ever comes to pass will depend on whether the Euro continues to exist in its present, unwieldy form”
I have to say points 1 and 3 are just utter tosh, care to back up your claim that this is the “most likely scenario”? Here is another scenario for you:
1. There will be a currency union as the larger party (rUK) realises that although it does not really want it, it is the most pragmatic path forward and staves off pressure from the financial about the alarming increase in the rUK deficit without the backing of Scottish oil assets.
2. If no currency union comes into being then indeed Scotland does continue to use Sterling at least in the short term. This in turns results in Scotland refusing to accept any liabilities that have been run by the UK.
3. In the longer term Scotland shall probably select a different currency option but that shall be decided by the Government that the people of Scotland elect. It seems unlikely that the Euro shall be selected but you never know. The EU shall not dictate that Scotland has to join the Euro as put simple this not how the EU works.
The bitter fruit of Better together’s campaign. Even if there was a no vote, the have made it all but impossible for Scotland ever to feel welcome. This is what comes of allowing people of Davidson and Osborne to trash Scotland’s reputation within the Union and not having the courage to hit back. Oh they have the brass neck to pick a fight with “cyber-nats”, but they are worthless little shits when it comes to sticking up for Scotland, when its attacked from within the union by those professing to cherish it.
‘The EU shall not dictate that Scotland has to join the Euro as put simple this not how the EU works.’
ROFL!
In the words of Frankie Howerd, my flabber has never been so gasted
The bitter fruit of the independence campaign: Even after a ‘no’ vote, it will be all but impossible for us to trust the Scots ever again. The ‘yes’ campaign have made it very clear that they hate the English. And you know what? The feeling might just be mutual.
English nationalism is a sleeping giant. A very large, ugly, malevolent, sleeping giant. Be careful not to wake it.