Between 4 and 20 August the Saudi Arabian government beheaded 19 people. Saudi Arabia, which has funded and armed ISIS from inception (initially with CIA support), is now bombing alongside the USA in Iraq and Syria.
Forget the war technology porn regularly being broadcast by western media, with those spectacular photos of missiles erupting from ships into the night sky. Those missiles and bombs eviscerate and maim innocents as well as combatants, children as well as terrorists. The West always first denies, then regrets, “collateral damage”. The propaganda can be laughable. During the invasion of Iraq I remember a news propaganda item about how a cruise missile can enter a specific window, being followed by the next item – the US had apologised to Syria for two missiles aimed at Iraq which had hit Syria by accident.
If we can accidentally bomb the Chinese Embassy in Serbia, we can – and do – hit civilian homes near the proposed target. Being eviscerated by a piece of flying shrapnel is no less terrible than being beheaded by a jihadist. Let us not pretend that our violence is somehow nicer. Children will be dying under our bombs soon.
Other than the two extraordinary crazed Nigerians, there have been no recent Islamic motivated terrorist attacks in the UK and even a slowdown in the propaganda of phoney attacks. This was a threat to the major financial interests of the security industry, in both its governmental and private branches.
There can be no greater nonsense than the idea that the Caliphate poses a direct threat to the UK. This is even more crazy than the claim that Saddam Hussein posed a threat to the UK. But by seeking to join in the bombing campaign, and initiating a new round of fake “anti-terror” arrests in London, the British government is doing everything it possibly can do to try to provoke terrorist violence on British streets. The interests of the security state are therefore secured. I am longing for somebody to explain to me the precise mechanism by which our bombing Islamic countries helps prevent terrorist incidents in the UK. The way it can provoke such incidents seems to me too obvious to need stating. Indeed it says a great deal for the wisdom and tolerance of Britain’s Muslim communities that it has not provoked more. They could teach government a great deal about the good sense of not resorting to violence to gratify passions and earn short term acclaim.
“It is interesting Juteman. ‘Fred’ clearly has no clue whatever about Scotland”
That’s rich coming from a shit for brained retard.
“I’m sure its safer than a week in the Isle of Man on a motorbike.”
Pretty dangerous place. I knew a young nurse who told me how the motor cyclists (racers) were wheeled into Noble’s Hospital with bones sticking out everywhere. Their main concern apparently was “cut my leathers up the seams”. But Turkey is a dangerous place too, especially on a pushbike (tourer). Cars come at you from every angle in Istanbul. People shout “Hello” to cyclists knowing that only westerners would be mad enough to cycle round the city of a hundred mosques. There may have been Turkish cyclists at some time – but they’re all dead!
Also watch your money, and be careful who you drink tea with. My understanding is that your tea can be drugged and while you’re sleeping it off somebody helps themselves to – well – everything you’ve got. It never happened to me though. So enjoy your holiday.
The quandary is that these ‘Islamists’ who we’re supposedly bombing, but aren’t have been receiving for a long time medical care inside Israel when injured in their fight against the Syrian Army defending the Syrian people and upholding the legitimate Syrian government. There’s no doubt too that they have been receiving arms and supplies, food, water etc. from Israel, via the Israeli occupied Syrian Golan Heights, the cop-out and obfuscation being that this aid and the fleets of identical brand new pickup-trucks are being supplied by Turkey and via, this too is credible though as widely known and accepted that the Turkish government has been under the Israeli thumb for at least a decade and the Turkish armed forces are headed and controlled by the Israeli military figures and cannot act independently, the Turkish military HQ being located in Tel Aviv.
Sources say that the US even provided guarantees that no Syrian military or government interests would be targeted. A Reuters exclusive claiming that the US went so far as to provide assurances to Iran, suggests this version is closer to the truth. When US airstrikes against Syria were on the table a year ago, the various parties went through a similar game of footsies.
Last September, the Americans backed off – allegedly because of communications from their adversaries that even a single US missile would trigger a war front against Israel. This time, Washington needed to know that scenario was not going to be activated, and this week they offered the necessary guarantees to ensure it.
Although the Russians and Iranians have publicly lashed out at the illegality of US strikes, they do not seem too worried. Both know – like the Syrian government – that these air attacks could be a net gain for them.
________________________________
It would appear that certain Middle East countries, are now comfortable with the bombing of Iraq, and possibly Syria, as long as it doesn’t harm their interests.
http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2014/09/coalition-clueless/
@Iain. Extremely well put! They will also justify placing responsibility on the armed forces on the basis of the yougov poll. As someone else said, what a terrible reflection on a supposedly civilised country that the consensus presented appears to be “They are evil, bomb the bastards”.
Thank goodness the motion passed specifically excludes Syria, without further input. I know David Cameron hinted immediately at mission creep, but he has no parliamentary authority to do that, and I hope the 45 will hold him to account.
John Goss,
Yes we’ve done the Tea in The Atlas Mountains. The Moroccan Rug is very nice. I know how to barter – been there before – and we never got robbed..that was in Athens.
Tony
@Oddie: It was during that same UN speech that David Cameron made his breathtaking remark about “conspiracy theorists” being as dangerous as ISIS. I suppose we should be grateful he doesn’t expound the virtues of torture, as Tony Blair at one time appeared to be doing. It looks like being a long nine months to the next election!
David Cameron told the U.N. that “non-violent extremism” is just as dangerous as terrorism and must be eradicated using all means at the government’s disposal. He references 9/11 and 7/7 Truthers as examples of the type of extremism that must be dealt in a similar fashion to ISIS.
If you thought Obama’s War is Peace speech to the U.N. was creepy, wait until you get a load of this. Cameron is officially announcing a the plan to use a full assault on dissenting views.
_________________________________
It would seem David Cameron, want to shut up anybody who challenges his version of the truth, I wonder were he got that idea from.
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/09/david-cameron-says-non-violent.html
Light relief –
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-minister-brooks-newmark-quits-4335398
Ex-Minister for Civil Society (wtf dat? Who knew there was one?) wears (partly) paisley pyjamas. Abdolutely bloody disgusting. Chap was right to resign.
@Fred: Yes, I remember that incident as well. Here’s a report from the coalition side:
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Horror-at-Fallujah-SAVAGE-ATTACK-Bodies-2772639.php
And it does admit the root cause:
“Virulent opposition to the coalition that ousted Saddam Hussein began almost a year ago in the Sunni Muslim city, when U.S. forces unleashed a wave of hatred of Americans after shooting dead nearly 20 civilians when a protest outside a school turned violent.”
Maybe this was a “Bloody Sunday” type incident.
The battle of the Euphrates Bridge sounded particularly nasty. But, was that a reason to destroy a city? The UN certainly didn’t think so.
Latest from UN:
http://rt.com/news/191216-lavrov-us-rejects-principle/
One quote from Lavrov:
“The US-led Western alliance, while acting as an advocate of democracy, rule of law and human rights in individual countries, is acting in the international arena from the opposite position, rejecting the democratic principle of the sovereign right of states enshrined in the UN Charter and trying to decide for others what is good and what is bad,”
MOSCOW, September 25 (RIA Novosti) – NATO’s official statement on the withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine was sent by a junior NATO clerk by email, Rossiya Segodnya reported.
Igor Konashenkov, a representative of the Russian Ministry of Defense, pointed out the junior rank of the official’s remarks, adding that the statement was sent by the clerk to the authoritative news agency Reuters by ordinary email.
Konashenkov joked that he next expects NATO statements from cleaning ladies working at NATO headquarters, who will send the statements as text messages.
The comment, made by NATO’s Lieutenant Colonel Jay Janzen to Reuters, stated that there has been a significant pullback of Russian conventional forces from inside Ukraine, but many thousands are still deployed in the vicinity of the border.
Speaking of the pullout of the phantom Russian forces, he added that NATO welcomes these positive signs.
_______________________________
A junior NATO clerk, sending an E-Mail in an almost off the cuff style with important information as to the whereabouts of Russian forces, seems a bit disconcerting.
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140925/193278365/Media-Gets-Latest-Info-on-Russian-Forces-in-Ukraine-from-Junior.html
@Lemm: Of course. Aren’t they clever. Weren’t the good citizens of the Western world dumb to be taken in by it. Ripple effect mass hysteria? I guess they were basing it on the reaction to Orson Welles reading of “War of the Worlds” using the preferred media outlet of the time.
Tory MP asks for privacy to be respected … Bit late for that isn’t it mate.
Republicofscotland,
Well it was Cameron and the sound synch was terrible..but I listened to the bit I think you are referring to…9/11 & 7/7 …together with “non-violent extremism” but I don’t think that Cameron actually said that he wants to “shut up anybody who challenges his version of the truth”, even if Cass Sunstein told him to say that. I actually think that is a misinterpretation. I will see if I can quickly find a transcript to confirm – as watching this bloke speak is nearly as obnoxious as watching Tony Blair – and anyway – no one who has actually got the intelligence to analyse what is going on and cares about the truth is going to be kept quiet by any threats from such an airhead. Humanity cannot progress on lies.
As Harold Pinter said to close his Nobel Acceptance Speech
“I believe that despite the enormous odds which exist, unflinching, unswerving, fierce intellectual determination, as citizens, to define the real truth of our lives and our societies is a crucial obligation which devolves upon us all. It is in fact mandatory.
If such a determination is not embodied in our political vision we have no hope of restoring what is so nearly lost to us – the dignity of man.”
What can Cameron say to compete with that, whilst drowning in a sea of lies, corruption, blackmail, bribes and bloodshed?
Tony
An interesting article on Munguins Republic.
______________________________________
Are you confused by whats going on in the Middle East, Let me explain. We support the Iraqi government against the Islamic State,we don’t like IS but IS is supported by Saudi Arabia, whom we do like.
we don’t like President Assad in Syria, we support he fight against him,but not IS, which is also fighting against him.
We don’t like Iran but Iran supports the Iraqi government against IS, so some of our friends support our enemies,and some of our enemies are our friends, and some of our enemies, are fighting against our other enemies, whom we want to lose. But we don’t want our enemies, who are fighting our enemies to win.
If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they might be replaced by people we like even less. and all this was started by us invading a country, to drive out terrorists, who weren’t actually there,until we went in to drive them out.
Have got that?
http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk/
“The United States has informed Syria that it will conduct airstrikes against the Islamic State (IS) for three years, Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Muallem said Saturday.”
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140927/193359588/Syrian-Foreign-Minister-US-to-Conduct-Airstrikes-Against-IS-for.html
Thank goodness the commons motion our MPs voted “yes” to yesterday excluded Syria. Not only against UN law, but advanced warning they’d be breaking it for three years!
Tony Opmoc
_______________
A noble speech indeed by Pinter, but unfortunately the governments of today’s world rely more on deception than honour.
And I’m reminded by Egyptologist, G Massey’s words,whenever I here Obama or Cameron speak.
They must find it difficult,those who have taken authority, as the truth, rather than the truth as authority.
Looks like “BBCBreaking” got more than it bargained for:
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/515441145183494144
Fracking will take place below Britons’ homes without their permission after ministers rejected 40,000 objections to controversial changes to trespass laws.
The UK government argued that the current ability for people to block shale gas development under their property would lead to significant delays and that the legal process by which companies can force fracking plans through was costly, time-consuming and disproportionate.
There were a total of 40,647 responses to a consultation on the move to give oil and gas companies underground access without needing to seek landowners’ permission, with 99% opposing the legal changes. Setting aside the 28,821 responses submitted via two NGO campaigns, 92% of the remaining responses objected to the proposals.
The government response to the consultation, published online on the eve of the parliamentary vote on military strikes against Islamic militants in Iraq, concluded: Having carefully considered the consultation responses, we believe that the proposed policy remains the right approach to underground access and that no issues have been identified that would mean that our overall policy approach is not the best available solution.
__________________________________
It would appear David Cameron, and Westminster have spoken, and the words they’ve spoken the British public, over fracking is “Frack You.”
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/26/fracking-trespass-law-changes-move-forward-despite-huge-public-opposition
John Prescott has realised…
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-prescott-isis-air-strikes-4334465
Tony Blair said air strikes alone won’t destroy IS. He’s right.
He also said the US and UK should follow up by putting boots on the ground. On that, he’s absolutely wrong.
Guess the Faith Foundation won’t be sending John a Christmas present, then.
Ba’al Zevul,
Mildly amusing, but I haven’t worn pyjamas since I was a little boy – and to resign on a newspaper sting is ridiculous…so what he was trying to pull a bit (Mirror journalist?) at a Tory Conference by showing what a big boy he is…without his wife and 5 kids??..I mean that is bugger all in the normal scheme of things these horrible people get up to…lets see the actual contents of the ‘D’ Notices Miranda / Charles Lynton etc and all the rest bubbling underground for years on the internet to occasionally surface after death. The interesting question is who is the journalist…anyone you know?
Tony
A resolution calling for nuclear inspections in Israel has been defeated by 13 votes at the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Thursday’s vote saw 45 member states, including Turkey, Russia, China and Iran, back the proposal from 18 Arab countries.
The US, Britain, France and Germany were among the 58 members to vote against the measure at the agency’s General Assembly in Vienna while 27 countries abstained.
The proposal called for the opening of Israel’s nuclear facilities to IAEA inspection and Israel signing the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
The Kuwaiti ambassador to Vienna, Sadiq M. Marafi, claimed those countries backing Israel had violated international law.
He said: “Arab states will decide to continue efforts on nuclear inspection over Israel.”
______________________________
It would appear these genocidal monsters, are above every law, with the UK making sure it remains that way.
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nuclear-inspection-israel-rejected-566818911
The Mirrpr link has the story, Tony, that’s all I know about it. The guy’s an American-born corporate/financial suit, probably obscenely rich, with the usual politics degree from Oxford, but seems to differ from the Tory line on quantitative easing- there may be reasons to suspect a knife in the back.
Seems to have very strong US ties, still.
Also Conservative Friends of Israel, Portland Trust, etc. Very friendly with ‘Free Syrian Army’ last year.
This may be relevant (Where’s Werritty? department)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/oct/13/donor-liam-fox-flights-washington
@Peacewisher 7.48 pm Many who comment here, like you and me, find it hard to understand how our political leaders have such massive moral blind spots. What they have learned to do without- and what still comes naturally to us – is what Adam Smith in his “The Theory of Moral Sentiments” (1759, 1790 and 1991) described as the ability to imagine how actions would be judged by an “impartial spectator”.
One feels sympathy with, and a readiness to express moral approval of, actions where, as someone with no material interests at stake, one sees the benevolent intentions of the agent; and can also understand the gratitude that might be felt by those affected by the action. But by what stretch of the imagination can one find benevolent intentions behind bombing that has projected material benefits to oneself [saving British lives even at the cost of losing many more Iraqi ones] and where gratified bombees are thin on the ground?
The trouble is most politicians’ inability to make impartial judgments and calculations – their moral illiteracy/innumeracy. In whatever they do the easiest course is to make self-serving utilitarian calculations: how will that benefit me (my election), my party (its election), my constituents (their NIMBYS and pork-barrel projects), my country (right or wrong)? That’s where oil and financial interests come in, the interests of arms exporters, what is beneficial to those who fund me or my party. So that’s why electors – themselves prone to self-interest – have an almost impossible task: how only to reward/elect MPs who will act as impartial spectators when passing legislation and holding governments morally to account?
When it comes to calculating utilitarian benefits, different arithmetics apply: one US death is worth ten British. 20 French. 100 Chinese or Mexicans, 150 “Africans” and 1000+ Islamic Extremists. Each country seems to operate its own partial arithmetic. In Utopian arithmetic the lives of the innocent are worth infinitely more than those of the guilty.
“Does David Cameron have any idea what kind of war he’s getting into?”
Patrick Cockburn
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/26/does-david-cameron-have-any-idea-what-kind-of-war-hes-getting-into/
Republicofscotland,
G. Massey was quite a guy…but even I bought it until the age of 15,and then resigned from the Catholic Church on moral grounds…yet still believed the story of the historical Jesus until I was about 50. I had no time for religion, politics or history…I was working and continuously learning just to earn a living (tech stuff changes extremely quickly)…its easy to lose it even in your late 20’s if you don’t keep up.
I only realised I was so completely ignorant when I retired 10 years ago, and had the time to learn stuff, that I had never had the time to learn before. I only went to The British Museum for the first time last year – it blew me away. I was completely entranced.
http://gerald-massey.org.uk/massey/dpr_01_historical_jesus.htm
Tony
@Iain: Oh that they did think about it rationally and consider it in ethical and even legal terms. I get the impression that the narrative is already written (by the US), and it is up to the British government of the day, like middle managers under pressure, to put an impossible strategy into operation. Not “my country right or wrong”, but “US, right or wrong”. In those terms, Blair did a pretty good job of it. I seem to remember that either Nelson Mandela or Archbishop Desmond Tutu said he was behaving as if he was US Foreign Secretary. Looks like Cameron is already in trouble with Syria specifically excluded in yesterday’s motion (I noted that Liam Fox was hopping mad about that).
I thought this was a very interesting comment today on Moon of Alabama (I have followed events in Ukraine closely since before it kicked off). It seems that saving face is so incredibly important amongst these people who think they rule the world.
“The cosmetic IS bombings in Syria are a face saver for the US in exchange for de-escalation with Russia.
Cunning Lavrov has disciplined the spoiled brats for the second time in just a year.
De-escalation signs:
EU contemplates removal of sanctions.
Qatar says their gas is no competition for Russia’s.
Porky expects lasting peace.
Case closed.
(until the next brilliant neocon plan).”
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/09/a-too-complicate-game-obamas-deals-with-the-saudis-and-al-nusra.html#comments
Incidentally, occasionally in the depths of the internet – sometimes like tripping over it…I find a comment from someone posting from deep within who obviously knows his stuff…for example…look at the trace….this is a graph of the underground explosive event yesterday…this is a graph of an earthquake…this is a graph of a nuclear explosion….see match and look (an earthquake and a nuclear explosion – are two completely different events – with completely different graphical signatures)
These things are quite important to know – though of course in retrospect – if you survive them…we once got woke up at 2:00 am …I said – nah lightening doesn’t strike twice…and if it does what do you expect me to do about it..climb up a coconut tree…and went back to sleep (there was no higher ground – but it was true – just no Tsunami this time)
Tony
“I am longing for somebody to explain to me the precise mechanism by which our bombing Islamic countries helps prevent terrorist incidents in the UK.”
Nope. Bombing Iraq is a prelude to bombing Assad out of Syria, which is the actual objective of the current military campaign. This is also the reason why Sunni Arab states have so hastily joined the new US+British+French “war on terror”.
Not oil this time, though, for the West – the magic word is now “gas”.