Between 4 and 20 August the Saudi Arabian government beheaded 19 people. Saudi Arabia, which has funded and armed ISIS from inception (initially with CIA support), is now bombing alongside the USA in Iraq and Syria.
Forget the war technology porn regularly being broadcast by western media, with those spectacular photos of missiles erupting from ships into the night sky. Those missiles and bombs eviscerate and maim innocents as well as combatants, children as well as terrorists. The West always first denies, then regrets, “collateral damage”. The propaganda can be laughable. During the invasion of Iraq I remember a news propaganda item about how a cruise missile can enter a specific window, being followed by the next item – the US had apologised to Syria for two missiles aimed at Iraq which had hit Syria by accident.
If we can accidentally bomb the Chinese Embassy in Serbia, we can – and do – hit civilian homes near the proposed target. Being eviscerated by a piece of flying shrapnel is no less terrible than being beheaded by a jihadist. Let us not pretend that our violence is somehow nicer. Children will be dying under our bombs soon.
Other than the two extraordinary crazed Nigerians, there have been no recent Islamic motivated terrorist attacks in the UK and even a slowdown in the propaganda of phoney attacks. This was a threat to the major financial interests of the security industry, in both its governmental and private branches.
There can be no greater nonsense than the idea that the Caliphate poses a direct threat to the UK. This is even more crazy than the claim that Saddam Hussein posed a threat to the UK. But by seeking to join in the bombing campaign, and initiating a new round of fake “anti-terror” arrests in London, the British government is doing everything it possibly can do to try to provoke terrorist violence on British streets. The interests of the security state are therefore secured. I am longing for somebody to explain to me the precise mechanism by which our bombing Islamic countries helps prevent terrorist incidents in the UK. The way it can provoke such incidents seems to me too obvious to need stating. Indeed it says a great deal for the wisdom and tolerance of Britain’s Muslim communities that it has not provoked more. They could teach government a great deal about the good sense of not resorting to violence to gratify passions and earn short term acclaim.
David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden, Conservative)
I want to take up my right hon. Friend’s exact point. Does the lack of strategic objective not manifest itself in one particular way? We have heard that this could go on for some time, but we have not heard a criterion for stopping, let alone a criterion for what we are going to achieve.
Edward Leigh (Gainsborough, Conservative)
We all want Syria to be a democratic, modern country, and we all want the Syrian free forces to win this battle, but a year ago we were asked in this House of Commons to bomb Assad and now we are being asked to stand on our heads. I have heard of being asked to bomb our opponents and support our friends, but what we are doing now in Syria is extraordinary and makes no sense.
Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border, Conservative)
My hon. Friend is making a very important point. The idea is that somehow we could support the Syrian Government against extremists, but the paradox and the problem is that the only legitimacy the Syrian regime now has is the existence of those terrorists. What possible motive would Bashar al-Assad have to remove them so long as they remain his main reason for international support?
Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border, Conservative)
Members of the House have laid out, with enormous ingenuity, the complexity of this situation; we have heard about everything from Turkey almost to Turkmenistan. In the end, however, this is a relatively simple motion and we should support the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition in the decision that they are making, for two reasons: one is that air strikes, in and of themselves, are a sensible response to the problem that we face; and the second is the caution and the focus that they bring to the issue of defining the wider mission.
Air strikes are sensible because, as I discovered with my hon. Friend Nadhim Zahawi when we stood on the front line looking at the Islamic State, it is clear that essentially what had happened is that an advance across open desert territory, using Humvees and artillery, had been driven back quite easily with air strikes. Those US air strikes of three or four weeks ago achieved the result of preventing people from taking Irbil, and of ensuring that 450,000 refugees currently located inside Kurdistan were protected from the advance of the Islamic State. If nothing else is achieved, that containment is worth while, and the Royal Air Force’s participation in that process would be not only legal but moderate. It would be a reasonable undertaking, not only to defend our troops but to achieve an important humanitarian objective.
Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border, Conservative)
It is a good challenge. The answer is that air strikes need to be focused primarily on containing the advance of the Islamic State territories, and secondly, attacks need to be targeted against terrorist locations. But they cannot be the platform or the foundation of a counter-insurgency strategy. That needs to come from the region.
Just to move towards an end, the fundamental problem is that the Sunni states in the region believe that the Islamic State is an opponent of Iran. This is, in the end,
to do with suspicions between the Sunni states and Iran. As we have heard today, it does not matter how many planes we see flying around, the reality remains that Turkey has not yet committed to engaging in this. This is vital. We still see financial flows coming out of the Gulf directly into the Islamic State. Unless we can find a way of beginning to get the structures in place—structures which involve, first, trust between Iran and those other actors; secondly, some trust from the Sunni people on the ground on the future of their states—we have no future there. That is not a military problem but a diplomatic and political problem. Therefore, the challenge for the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister is to put those planks in place. If we are serious about these things—and we have the Arabists—we could get the money. People are worried about the budget for this; the Gulf states would write a £50 million or £100 million cheque to finance the teams to do that. It is slow, patient work. We must get out of the black and white mentality of engagement or isolation, surge and withdrawal, and instead show, through a light, long-term diplomatic and political footprint, the seriousness that should define this nation.
OK I will stop now with this one:
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North, Labour)
This is the third time during my lifetime in Parliament that I have been asked to vote to invade or bomb Iraq. I have voted against on previous occasions, and I will not support the motion today. I ask the House to think a little more deeply about what we have done in the past and what the effects have been. We have still not even had the results of the Chilcot inquiry.
The current crisis descends from the war on terror, the ramifications of which have been vast military expenditure by western countries and the growth of jihadist forces in many parts of the world. Many people have lost their lives, and many more have had their lives totally disrupted and are fleeing warzones to try to gain a place of safety. Only two weeks ago, it was reported that 500 migrants had died trying to cross the Mediterranean to get into Malta, and many die every day trying to get to Lampedusa. Many of those people are victims of wars throughout the region for which we in this House have voted, be it the bombing of Iraq, the bombing of Libya, the intervention in Mali or the earlier intervention in Afghanistan.
We need to give a moment’s thought to where the problems come from. The growth of the Taliban came from 1979, when the west decided to support the opposition in Afghanistan. The Taliban morphed into al-Qaeda, which then morphed into various other forces in Africa, particularly in Nigeria, and of course into the current group, ISIL. That is an absolutely appalling group of people—there is no question whatever about that. Their behaviour, with the beheading and abuse of people, is quite appalling.
Fool
Thank you for taking on the rôle of Hansard for the purposes of this blog.
You have performed a most valuable service to readers and to Craig.
“This is not, however, 2003. It is an entirely different set of circumstances, an important feature of which is the fact that we would be responding to a request made by the lawful Government of Syria. [Hon. Members: “Iraq.”] I meant Iraq; ”
Respond to a puppet pulled by usa, Well that’s ok then isn’t it.
The Iraq govenment is about as lawful or legitimate as ours. As they sell off the NHS. No mandate, no Democracy. US policy.
Traitors.
Yes i’m sure ‘we’ will “come to Syria later”.
Ah, nostalgia, nostalgia……
You keep chipping away at him but he has to keep pretending he doesn’t read your comments. It must be terribly frustrating.
“Thank you for advising me that the daft auld fuck is still at it. Unnecessary, only because it is always a safe assumption, and as its sole aim is distraction, Habbabreak remains permanently on. But not for you. Occasionally it pleases me to play with a mindless troll, and you’re it.
Returning to Israel’s extermination policy:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/09/gaza-crime-crimes-201492664043551756.html”
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The construction of the above – first the clever-clever personal bit/insult, and then the trademark “Returning to…”, followed by a bit of cut-and paste on one of the usual obsessions
reminds me greatly of
Sofia (ex Kibo Noh), the Celtic Poetaster…..
Habb
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Jesus are you still making condescending remarks about other peoples comments, if I were you I’d give it a rest, have you ANY idea how stupid you look right now.
Diplotmat? more like Laundro-Mat if you ask me.
Fool,
Many thanks for the transcripts,much appreciated.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/MK-Barakei-Israel-has-an-interest-in-Islamic-States-success-376571
Interesting.
President Barack Obama has acknowledged that US agencies underestimated the threat posed by the Islamist insurgency in Syria.
In a frank TV interview, he said that al-Qaeda had been beaten in Iraq by US forces working with Sunni tribes.
But they took advantage of the power vacuum in neighbouring Syria to emerge as Isis, later called Islamic State.
Meanwhile, there has been fierce fighting to the west of the Iraqi capital, Baghdad.
Air strikes helped Iraqi fighters repel an attack at Ameriyat al-Fallujah, a strategic town 40km (25 miles) outside Baghdad.
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Obama went on to say Syria had become “Ground Zero” for militants.
It looks likely that coalition forces are heading for Syria, and with Chinese/Russian backed rebels already propping up the Assad regime, another Angola could be in the offering.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29405373
Abbas has given notice to the US, Ba’al. If they veto the UN resolution, he’s going to sign on with the ICC. Abbas has been reluctant/intimidated by Kerry’s promises and has given him time. We’ll see if he follows through with the threat.
LONDON, September 25 (RIA Novosti) – Barack Obama was elected President of the United States on the strength of one fact. As a US Senator in Illinois, he voted against George W. Bush’s war against Iraq. Had Obama not done that, he would never have attracted the attention necessary to become a serious candidate for the presidency.
Disgust with Bush’s wars and the financial crisis propelled Obama to the White House. A few months later the “anti-war candidate”, now President, was rewarded with the Nobel Peace Prize.
It would be difficult to imagine a Nobel Peace Prize laureate and “anti-war” candidate whose actions have been more warlike.
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A interesting look at Obama, how he went from the “Great Hope” to the “Great Warmonger.”
http://en.ria.ru/authors/20140925/193277663/Obama–The-Warmongering-Nobel-Peace-Prize-Laureate.html
US and Israel are ‘offended’
“The United States on Friday slammed Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas’ speech at the United Nations, saying it was “offensive” and undermined peace efforts.
“President Abbas’ speech today included offensive characterisations that were deeply disappointing and which we reject,” said State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki.
“Such provocative statements are counterproductive and undermine efforts to create a positive atmosphere and restore trust between the parties,” she said.
In what some commentators called his strongest speech since taking over the Palestinian leadership nearly 10 years ago, Mahmoud Abbas earlier on Friday accused Israel of waging a “war of genocide” in Gaza and vowed to seek war crimes prosecutions.
“We will not forget and we will not forgive, and we will not allow war criminals to escape punishment,” Abbas said in a speech to the UN General Assembly.
– See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/abbas-un-speech-offensive-says-us-1545841291#sthash.Zmt6gQO1.dpuf
Henry Kissinger, Bilderberg kingpin and architect of overthrowing democratically elected governments, is keen to establish a global mercenary army to fight terrorists, according to Fox News big mouth Bill O’Reilly, who has heartily endorsed such a notion on recent programming.
“I was with Henry Kissinger last night,” O’Reilly said Sunday on ABC News’ This Week.
“And he told me my idea of a worldwide anti-terror force paid for by the coalition of nations under the supervision of Congress — Kissinger has endorsed that for years.
________________________________
The above frightening scenario,could if it comes to fruition lay any group open to attack if the government of that country deems them to be a terrorist group, even if they’re not.
Instagram has reportedly been blocked in China, amid fierce clashes between pro-democracy supporters and police in Hong Kong.
The photo and video-sharing service, which is owned by Facebook Inc, has been put on lockdown by police, according to various sources. Reuters cited Hong Kong-based reporters with The New York Times as being among those to report the story.
The website http://www.blockedinchina.net also indicated that Instagram was blocked across China, including in Beijing and Shenzhen. It suggested that Facebook has also been limited.
The reports come as pro-democracy protesters, some wearing surgical masks and holding up umbrellas to protect against tear gas, expand their rallies throughout Hong Kong in protest against Beijing’s decision to limit democratic reforms in the Asian financial hub.
____________________________
Hong Kong may be heading for a Tiananmen Square type scenario.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-instagram-blocked-in-china-as-candid-images-expose-reality-of-rallies-9761375.html
ResidentHolocaustDenier
“Diplotmat? more like Laundro-Mat if you ask me.”
_____________________
I can solemnly assure you, RHD, that I am not, and have never been, a Diplotmat.
ResidentHilicausrDenier writes, variously :
“It looks likely that…
and
“It would be difficult to imagine….”
and
“The above frightening scenario,could if it comes to fruition…”
and
“Hong Kong may be heading for….”
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I do love a chap who has firm opinions and expresses them clearly and with confidence.
Funny how Republicofscotland and Ben arrive here together, every day, at around 7-8am California time! Like clockwork, one after the other.
Mod; Would you kindly explore the IP’s for myself and RoS, so that the enablers can shut the fuck up?
“Would you kindly explore the IP’s for myself and RoS, so that the enablers can shut the fuck up?”
I already told you Ben. It’s a waste of time. IP addresses can be spoofed. It’s easy.
http://www.hide-my-ip.com/
among many others …
and no, they don’t show up as “unknown” in tracking.
Mod; Would you kindly explore the IP’s for myself and RoS, so that the enablers can shut the fuck up?
_____________________________________
BEN it would appear, that Habb and his minion Dreoilin, think we are the same person, all I can say about that is great minds think alike, lets keep them guessing shall we?
I know, you see, because I’ve used ‘Hide my IP’ myself, and then tested it by leaving a comment on my own blog. On which I was using Statcounter, which I believe is the same as Craig is using, and which shows where people are coming from.
Is it possible for you to shut the fuck up?
You seem to have degenerated into a nudgy pillar of Zion with your high fives to the promoters; adding nothing except negative drive-bys with absolutely no content. Go back to hen-pecking at home. Or dip your beak into the news and contribute something, anything about the subject at hand.
Funny how Republicofscotland and Ben arrive here together, every day, at around 7-8am California time! Like clockwork, one after the other.
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Dreoilin
Ah! the little Wren is confused.
The Quartet’s Middle East Lol Representative would probably rather that the world didn’t know about one of his free lunches last week:
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/kuwait/kuwait-denies-israel-meeting-reports-1.1391568?utm_content=1.1391568&utm_medium=RSS&utm_source=Feeds&utm_campaign=Kuwait_denies_Israel_meeting_reports&localLinksEnabled=false&utm_term=News_RSS_feed
Kuwait has denied reports that its first deputy prime minister and foreign minister Shaikh Sabah Al Khalid attended a closed-door meeting in New York with Tzipi Livni, Israel’s justice minister and chief negotiator with the Palestinians.
It didn’t happen, right? And the Dear Leader wasn’t once more stitching up the Palestinians with his friends. Puts that Abbas speech (thanks, Ben) in context, all right. But
The Israeli media said that the dinner for around 20 people “included Tony Blair, the Quartet Representative for the Middle East Peace Process.”
(‘Daesh’, in the article, =IS )
“Is it possible for you to shut the fuck up?”
No
among many others …
and no, they don’t show up as “unknown” in tracking.
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Dreoilin
But why would a little Wren like you, need to hide his IP address in the first place, unless you’re a mischief making little Wren, which you seem to be.