Between 4 and 20 August the Saudi Arabian government beheaded 19 people. Saudi Arabia, which has funded and armed ISIS from inception (initially with CIA support), is now bombing alongside the USA in Iraq and Syria.
Forget the war technology porn regularly being broadcast by western media, with those spectacular photos of missiles erupting from ships into the night sky. Those missiles and bombs eviscerate and maim innocents as well as combatants, children as well as terrorists. The West always first denies, then regrets, “collateral damage”. The propaganda can be laughable. During the invasion of Iraq I remember a news propaganda item about how a cruise missile can enter a specific window, being followed by the next item – the US had apologised to Syria for two missiles aimed at Iraq which had hit Syria by accident.
If we can accidentally bomb the Chinese Embassy in Serbia, we can – and do – hit civilian homes near the proposed target. Being eviscerated by a piece of flying shrapnel is no less terrible than being beheaded by a jihadist. Let us not pretend that our violence is somehow nicer. Children will be dying under our bombs soon.
Other than the two extraordinary crazed Nigerians, there have been no recent Islamic motivated terrorist attacks in the UK and even a slowdown in the propaganda of phoney attacks. This was a threat to the major financial interests of the security industry, in both its governmental and private branches.
There can be no greater nonsense than the idea that the Caliphate poses a direct threat to the UK. This is even more crazy than the claim that Saddam Hussein posed a threat to the UK. But by seeking to join in the bombing campaign, and initiating a new round of fake “anti-terror” arrests in London, the British government is doing everything it possibly can do to try to provoke terrorist violence on British streets. The interests of the security state are therefore secured. I am longing for somebody to explain to me the precise mechanism by which our bombing Islamic countries helps prevent terrorist incidents in the UK. The way it can provoke such incidents seems to me too obvious to need stating. Indeed it says a great deal for the wisdom and tolerance of Britain’s Muslim communities that it has not provoked more. They could teach government a great deal about the good sense of not resorting to violence to gratify passions and earn short term acclaim.
Node – How many Israeli-butt licking politicians and mass rapists like Sir Jimmy Savile would take Britain to clean its own backyard than lifting its finger on Muslim countries?
http://rehmat1.com/2012/10/30/pope-knighted-the-most-jewish-catholic-paedophile/
Can we turn our backs on the Christians, Kurds, Yazidi and other minorities of Iraq and Syria? If we do and they are massacred, who’s hands will their blood be on?
Ours, partly. But less because we hypothetically allowed the slaughter, than because we sponsored armed insurrection against Assad by salafists, and because our policy for reconstructing Iraq was nonexistent – we helped create and arm IS. And partly the Gulf and Saudi hands, whose corrupt governments are as happy hunting with the hounds as running with the hare, for money.
There has to be a military dimension to suppressing Mad Mahdi-ism of this sort. Unhindered, even if it doesn’t get back to the UK, it certainly screws our oil supplies. But if we’re seen to be sympathetic to the Christians, Yezidis, and other complete heretics from Islam, while continuing to play off Sunni against Shi’a, we’re on a hiding to nothing.
We bust it, is my bottom line, and I think we have to fix it if we can. More people are going to get killed, hurt and displaced whether we do or not. But I wish we were showing some hints that we were going to do it intelligently.
Rehmat 26 Sep, 2014 – 1:35 pm
“Node – How many Israeli-butt licking politicians and mass rapists like Sir Jimmy Savile would take Britain to clean its own backyard than lifting its finger on Muslim countries?”
I think it’s becausewe have Israeli-butt licking politicians and mass rapists like Sir Jimmy Savile that we prefer to sort out other peoples problems rather than address our own. Paedophilia bonds our politicians to their masters.
@Rehmat: It all stinks. But its the only system people know, so they’ll cling on to it. Gosh, anyone who grew up pro-Falklands (sorry, I’m bringing that up now) has just known a warlike nation. And now our GDP majors on weapons and financial services.
There is something in one of Jesus’s parables about taking the plank out of your own eye before taking splinters out of other peoples.
That was one of a very few readings from school assembly that has stayed with me over the years. It applies at so many different levels.
When I present the spectacle of bombed orphaned children in Iraq and Syria with missing limbs desperately trying to fashion a prosthetic so they can eat and survive, we turn to stone and trump up excuses to hide the pain.
Yet faked executions with no pain, no decapitation, no anguish.. moves us to revisit the destruction, replay the torture and echo the wretchedness.
What type of people represent our society, what type of leaders convey our wishes and bring our concerns to debate and judgement?
The selfish, slavish mongers spewing the line in Parliament today who collectively spin the appeasement for war. These are the characters we grant that duty.
http://rt.com/on-air/uk-parliament-iraq-airstrikes/
There’s that inconvenient connection again.
http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2014/09/24/west-beats-retreat-in-ukraine/
“Don’t be surprised, therefore, if one of these days Putin comes to the aid of Obama once again in Syria. Russia can help Obama legitimize the international campaign against the islamic State by getting a UN Security Council mandate for it; Russia can be helpful in the US’ dealing (or the lack of it) with Syria’s President Bashar Al-Assad. Make mo mistake, Russia’s stance (here, here and here) on the Islamic State threat is unequivocal and broadly supportive of the US-led international campaign.
Russia’s only caveat is that the US operations in Syria should have the concurrence of the Syrian government and/or should have a UN mandate, but then, what stops Obama from seeking a UN mandate is also the apprehension that Moscow may not cooperate.
Quite possibly, the ice will be broken regarding Syria today at the meeting between Sergey Lavrov and John Kerry in New York. The New Cold war, which started with a bang, might be ending with a whimper.”
@Ben: that would indeed be a positive outcome.
I hope someone is putting together an objective life history of ISIS. I do think it probably began in Syria in 2011 as a US supported opposition to Assad that went their own way (politically, religiously, and geographically…), with help from Saudi Arabia.
The state -linked to the establishment -traumatises the people of this country regularity, least they wake up to that.
Like a mild form of Israel ‘mowing the lawn’ in Gaza it seems to me.
“Please try and stay on topic and don’t be diverted by the likes of Habbabkuk and Dreoilin who would clearly like to make the issue about the Falklands.”
The “issue”, John, is not about the Falklands. It’s about your dishonesty and hypocrisy.
You threw out a remark about the “indigenous population” and “resources” which was completely wrong, but when you realised your mistake, you didn’t have the guts to admit it. That’s when you started whining about people staying on topic. You can waffle as much as you like, but you can’t change the facts. They’re all on this page.
————-
Meanwhile I’m seeing quoted on Twitter that David Cameron said,
“Non violent conspiracy theorists are just as dangerous as ISIS.”
Truth-seekers getting too close to the bone for you, David?
Gosh, Dreolin. If David Cameron really did say that we have lost freedom of speech completely! Reminds me of a George Orwell quote about tyranny… and even speaking the truth being a revolutionary act. I’ll check out twitter.
Peacewisher
“@Dreolin:
This is all a diversion, and John probably now wishes he never mentioned Falklands at all in this context, but the Falklands were used by the British because they were strategically important for getting potassium and sodium nitrate rich rocks out of Argentina, and Chile. In case anyone doesn’t know, these are vital components of gunpowder.”
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Dreoilin, thank you for that.
As for you, Peacewisher:
If what you say above is correct, that would imply an important (and large) port in the Falklands and/or a significant naval presence based there to protect the carriage of those nitrates. But neither was the case, in fact.
As always, I stand ready to be corrected. Perhaps Guano would be the appropriate person to do so…?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The moral of my replies to Mr Goss and Peacewisher is that if posters wish to be taken seriously, they should think seriously about what they post and not just write down anything in a vain attempt to appear clever.
Yep, here is on someone’s tweet:
https://twitter.com/TimzTheBandit/status/515490588654047232
Peacewisher
I have just noticed the following in your “response” re the Falklands:
“It is quite possible that Galtieri was lured into invading the Falklands, as Dr David Owen alluded at the time.”
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Well, I’m not Mr Scorgie and so shan’t trot out the “Can you please reference that” line.
Actually, I don’t mind of David said that or not, I’m more interested in why you decided to mention it here. Since it stuck in your mind, no doubt you might wish to tell us who he thought had done the luring? Or, failing that, who you think might have.
Thanks and Peace be upon you (not).
“Gosh, Dreolin. If David Cameron really did say that we have lost freedom of speech completely!”
He’s an idiot.
I think you can watch the video here:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/david-cameron-says-non-violent-conspiracy-theorists-are-just-as-dangerous-as-isis/5404412
(I can’t watch it as I’m getting perilously close to my limit for data DL for this month)
Captain Komodo-Baal-Afrend says of Fred “You’re boring.”
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To which I say : at least he’s willing to argue his corner, unlike some others who hide behind Habbabreak (prop. A. Frend, Mt Olympus, Greece).
Now why would you want to do that, Habby?
Mr Goss
The hole you’re in just got bigger.
“This thread however is about the UK going to war yet again without justification (yet again).”
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So why have you now introduced South African nuclear weapons into it?
You really are an awful old Stalinist, aren’t you – Comrade Stalin is never wrong!
SMERSH is a direct threat to the “streets of Britain”, says David Blair.
An armada of Toyota Hilux are waiting to flood Europe, before queueing patiently at Calais for the big push accross the Channel.
“Oh who do you think you are kidding Mr al-Baghdadi, if you think old England’s done…”
Stinks like a 45-minute warning if you ask me, or like a backpack full of mother of Satan in the morning rush hour….
Anyhoo, the US plan to have 13k troops in Tikrit soon. When ISIS is “defeated” ie stood down or returned to their CIA training facility in Jordan, there will be plenty of Western forces in the area to start on the real point of the ISIS psyops — Syria. Or it might be that those forces will need to pursue ISIS into Syria. Either way, Syria is the near-term goal, probably by the start of next year.
If you can’t see that, Mr Average MP, then you are an idiot.
The following articles may help you decide how to vote today:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11054488/Foley-murder-video-may-have-been-staged.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/19/world/middleeast/us-and-allies-turn-to-rebels-with-a-cause-fighting-isis.html&assetType=nyt_now&_r=2
John was a shop steward for a Union. Much respect for those guys. I worked at a custom door hardware co in the early 70’s (Schlage) and loved it. They knew how to treat people, unlike some here.
Proletariat !!!
@Dreolin:
It’s also on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuwOfQI8YA8#t=234
Peacewisher
“Now why would you want to do that, Habby?”
__________________
Do what, Peacewisher?
I advise you to leave the Ben (California Nazi)-type elipsis in the drawer if you wish to be understood (not important that no one can understand him, of course!)
Ask me a loaded question like that…
Ben Gestetner
“John was a shop steward for a Union.”
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Interesting you should say that, Ben, for I often think of Mr Goss as a kind of upmarket Fred Kite, the Soviet Union-loving shop steward played by the wonderful Peter Sellers in “I’m all right, Jack”.
Are they by any chance related, I wonder?
Dreoilin we had a polite blog, apart from the trolls, the last time you took a break. I won’t say welcome back because of the despicable way you have treated Mary. Don’t think I am going to fall for that kind of nonsense myself.
Read up about the imperialist mistreatment of the indigenous populations of South America by various Empires, or watch The Mission (1986) if you want a feel for what went on. If you can get your head round it The Falklands are a bit like the Blasket Isles. Stay on topic and get off my back. The topic is: the imminent parliamentary permission to bomb the shit out of some poor sods in countries and regions which would destabilise the petrodollar if oil fell into the wrong hands.
@John: As we know, it isn’t about Iraq this time, it’s about Syria. The neocons missed out last time and they sure aren’t going to miss out again.
And we were all told this by the website of “Project for a New American Century”, which according to Wikipedia was dissolved in 2006. I wonder what they call it now?
By the way my mention of the Falkland war was just to point out how it worked wonders for Thatcher’s flagging popularity. People are that stupid. Go back and check and you will see that by replying to one diversion by Habbabkuk a faux topic got Dreoilin ensnared hook, line and sinker.
So I repeat the topic is: The Rush to Violence.
Peacemaker it is ultimately about oil. There is no Islamic state but there are trained armies, trained and funded by the west, who have been taking over oilfields and earning cash that the US believes should be its cash. That’s why they’ve been bombing oil refineries. They want the oil still to be there when, if, this sorry mess comes to an end. Petrodollars are the only thing keeping the US afloat. That’s why UK leaders are all dancing to the tune of Uncle Sam’s crazy brass-balled band.
That’s what the violence is about though, John… the rush to get Syria.
And as we know, Russia has a treaty with Syria. It’s like a game of Risk. Put some armies on Ukraine, and see what happens there, and next go it’s Syria again. And stupid Cameron, like that stupid Hollande, is about to get embroiled in the latest round of the neocon game…
The West seems more like an alien presence seeking not only black gold, but all resources, including water. If only they could find a way to charge us for the air we breathe.
They have the ME, Asia and now Africa targeted for exploitation and plunder. Once everything has been purloined, where do they go?
Other planets with resources are out of reach, so they will continue to shit where they eat.