The Guardian have just published the most disgusting outright lies imaginable. I just got back from the St James Centre – I was literally just passing through on my way to change for this evening’s meeting. I saw Ed Miliband beetle in and beetle out again.
There was a prepared claque of Labour members with No signs, who had naturally attracted some curious Yes passers-by too. Miliband only does carefully controlled no opposition photocalls, so when there was some hackling and badinage he immediately scuttled away again. There was absolutely no pushing; shoving or threat. I have been in larger crowds at the chemists’ prescription counter. I personally called out “war criminal”, which I had every right to do.
To portray this as an angry mob denying free speech is so far removed from the truth that Severin Carrell should be sacked immediately. The man is a disgrace. He is of course only part of a deliberate effort to portray Scots as a violent group of intolerant nationalists. We are of course guilty of failing to show hushed deference to any Westminster trougher and war criminal they dare to send to address us.
Apparrently according to the DM he was hounded out amidst YES members shouting obsceneties. They must have heard you then Craig ! LOL
Ed Milliband (he who was largely responsible for derailing a bombing campaign against Syria last year, you may recall), is a “war criminal” ?
Is every member of every party now a “war criminal” as far as you are concerned?
I’ll be glad when it’s over so that (hopefully) Craig can discuss other matters again.
@King Of Nothing – Are you suggesting there is anything else of importance happening?
I’m awaiting Reporting Scotland news to see it. BBC showed absolutely nothing other than it being a bit busy. I note with a laugh that latest NO mantra hashtag on Twitter is #YESTAPO ..I kid you not. The floral Louise Mensch seems to be at the forefront of the ‘condemnation’. Probably saw it from NYC
Wasn’t Ed Miliband against the Iraq war? In which case, maybe you should save your ‘call outs’ to those more deserving. No doubt the Yes involvement has been overstated, however.
“He is of course only part of a deliberate effort to portray Scots as a violent group of intolerant nationalists. ”
The more fervent of the Nat Scots do contribute a lot to that image.
Why were you yelling “war criminal” at Ed Miliband anyway?
Ho hum. This is when everything goes somewhat OTT, isn’t it? Tactics, Craig. You can assume that everything Yes does is potentially sinful from here on. UK plc is wooing the undecideds, many of whom have difficulty separating the SNP from the IRA in their unreliable memories.
Ed Miliband might not be a war criminal… yet. But he is a socialist, therefore a traitor to the human race.
Miliband wasn’t present for the vote on the 2003 invasion. He supported military action in both Afghanistan and Libya though, and the back-down on the Syria vote was more than likely to have been an arranged opposition, after threats from Russia, rather than a principled stance (though the latter element is pure speculation, based on logic.)
To portray this as an angry mob denying free speech …”
But the Gruniard said nothing of the sort. They quote Miliband’s spokesman who said “he [referring to Milliband, presumably] was not fazed by the disturbances” but that “It was a bit of a squeeze.”
So just a bit more bogus victim-status claiming by the nationalists.
There’s footage of it on the ITV website:
http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-09-16/cameron-clegg-and-miliband-pledge-powers-to-scotland/
Barely worse than the boorish jeers in the Commons every week at PMQs.
The misreporting continues.
Ed Miliband is hardly a leading candidate for a war criminal. But when the mob mentality takes over rational argument is futile. For example I had a look at the comments thread on Wings over Scotland and was surprised how often the word “scum” is applied to those who disagree with them. Not pretty.
Craig, this below actually shows that if you drive people to breaking point, there will be a reaction.
(If you consider it to O/T please delete and no hard feelings.)
There’s a great book called ‘The Power of One’, but the real power is when the many speak as One.
This power was displayed to great effect recently in, of all places, Muirkirk.
For those who don’t know, Muirkirk is a mining village in East Ayrshire, far from everywhere and close to nowhere and, like all such villages, was once staunchly Labour.
It could have been used for the much-repeated saying about electing a monkey with a red rosette – there is some truth in this, for they elected George Foulkes.
But those days are gone, as was illustrated last evening…
A swaggering band of ‘No’ canvassers, chests puffed out and red ties rippling in the wind, breezed into town and proceeded to peddle their scares, smears and fears.
They did their thing, some might say treating the public like voting fodder as in days past – until they got to Hareshaw Crescent and Meanlour Drive.
The first inkling our adventurers had that things weren’t quite right was when they passed gigantic Saltires flying from upstairs windows as they trooped into Hareshaw. But they shrugged their padded shoulders and dismissed the fluttering banners as belonging to a very few nasty Natz.
They were soon disavowed of this notion.
Within a few minutes of the Unionists knocking on doors other doors opened further up the street – then, in a scene reminiscent of a John Carpenter movie, a large group of residents came rushing towards the Labour group.
Much shouting occurred and angry voices were heard before the horrified canvassers decided prudence wasn’t just a cousin twice removed and they beat a hasty retreat.
Never, and I mean NEVER, has such a thing occurred in an Ayrshire mining village – for ordinary citizens to turn on the so-called ‘People’s Party’ really shows that they’ve burnt their bridges with the electorate whose votes they used to weigh.
Maybe the people of Muirkirk will go back to voting for Labour in council, Scottish and European elections but one thing’s for sure – they weren’t for having any of the ‘Better Together’ shite Labour was trying to pass out last night.
One of the chastened canvassers – a local councillor – was hailed by a resident as they left the area.
“Did ye no’ ken whit was gonnae happen when ye saw the flags?” he was asked.
The councillor took a deep breath and answered shakily, “Naw. We didnae realise… We didnae realise…”
And on Friday morning, after the last result is in and our country has voted for Independence, the whole Labour movement in Scotland will echo his words –
“We didnae realise…”
Just covering up for excesses by the Yes supporters at The Guardian’s expense.
Are you part of the mob, Craig?
Barely worse than the boorish jeers in the Commons every week at PMQs.
Which I am sure we would all like to end, too. Not so?
Which I am sure we would all like to end, too. Not so?
Of course we would, but it doesn’t cause journalists to run to twitter and report a riot in the chamber every time it happens, does it? 🙂
I’ve just watched the video on the news.
It isn’t the Guardian who is telling lies.
The Commons has the Speaker who can and does expel MPs who try to prevent free debate.
WAR CRIMES
A longer answer, best dissolved in Guinness, or a dram. ; ) –
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL
The unfortunate answer is that we can expect nothing else.
The UK – and thousands of higher civil servants and soldiers – are fully implicated in US war crimes, torture to death, rendition for extermination, and 27,000 ‘disappeared’ muslims.
We _are_ the Good Germans who didn’t rock Hitler’s boat. Who did not say ‘Not in my name’. Who turned a blind eye to murder, to torture to death and to rendition for extermination. Which we were told about by one Craig Murray among others.
How can we expect the UK elite – satraps of the Fascist US Empire – not to lie, to cheat and to steal? That’s very small beer compared to their crimes against brown people abroad in just the last decade!
The mass psychosis of the Germans from 1933 to 1945 was _NO_ different to _our_ mass psychosis today.
CRAIG MURRAY
Craig Murray – “None of those prisoners rendered to Uzbekistan have ever been seen again.” In other words, they were rendered for extermination. US Empire Nacht und Nebel, with the UK playing Mussolini to the US Empire’s Nazis. No change there, then!
USUK Nacht und Nebel – Bliar, Brown, Cameron, Clegg, Bush and Cheney –
‘Boiling for Britain / US’ – Muzafar Avazov –
– http://jamblichus.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/boileddude.jpg
Afghanistan in one sentence, from Craig Murray – UK ambassador to Uzbekistan – “There are so many lies about Afghanistan; it’s about money; it’s about oil; it’s about drugs; it’s about the abuse of human rights; it’s about degradation; it’s about all of us paying through our taxes for wars that benefit a tiny clique.” – Craig Murray – UK/USA made use of Uzbek torture Pt2 –
– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MQoG5wfx5g#t=09m56s
Previously –
US NEO-CON NAZI ‘MASS PSYCHOSIS’ – GOING THE WAY OF THE GERMANS IN 1933 – ?
Why did WE tolerate this? Why did WE allow this to be done in our name? Why did WE avert our eyes from rendition, torture and murder?
C. G. Jung knew why.
For ‘German,’ read ‘American’ and it could have been written yesterday.
Q. “Do you not think that the end of the war will bring about great changes in the psyche of the Europeans, particularly in the Germans, who are now awakening as though from a long and terrible dream?”
A. “Indeed I do. As to the Germans, we have a psychic problem ahead of us the magnitude of which cannot yet be foreseen, though its outlines can already be discerned in the cases I am treating. For the psychologist one thing is clear, and that is that he ought not to make the popular sentimental distinction between Nazis and opponents of the regime. Two cases I am now treating are both outspoken anti-Nazis, and yet their dreams show that behind all the decency the most pronounced Nazi psychology is still alive with all its violence and savagery. When Field Marshal von Kuchler, questioned by a Swiss reporter about the German atrocities in Poland, exclaimed indignantly: “Excuse me, that wasn’t the Wehrmacht, it was the Party!” this proved that a division into decent and indecent Germans is thoroughly naive. All of them, whether consciously or unconsciously, actively or passively, have their share in the horrors; they knew nothing of what was going on and yet they did know, as though party to a secret contrat genial. For the psychologist, the question of collective guilt, which worries politicians so much and will go on worrying them, is a fact, and it will be one of the most important tasks of therapy to get the Germans to admit this guilt.”
Some extracts from The Post-War Psychic Problems of the Germans. 1945. C. G. Jung, Jung Speaking. p. 149 – 155.
THE CURE
Laurens van der Post – “We must demand psychological illumination from our politicians. Otherwise they may spar with their own shadows, projected on ‘the enemy’.
Marie Louise von Franz – “Withdrawing our shadows from projection.” – C.G. Jung – Matter of Heart – start @ 1:30:45 –
– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCpWyn4NjEc#t=01h30m45s
from comment ‘US NEO-CON NAZI EMPIRE – LATEST’ to ‘US Troops Begin Operations on the Jordan-Syria Border’, y Sibel Edmonds, 12th December 2011 – ICH –
– SOME LINKS DEAD –
– http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29960.htm
Also – _Our_ crimes –
USUK war crimes, torture to death, rendition for extermination, and death camps on Diego Garcia? –
– http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/09/referendum-conundrum/#comment-479770
Of course we would, but it doesn’t cause journalists to run to twitter and report a riot in the chamber every time it happens, does it? 🙂
A fact which needs to be aired in the social media. If they did, perhaps there’d be less of it. PMQ’s is a disgraceful charade, pointless in the extreme, and would be unacceptable in a school playground. Taking that as an exemplar falls flat for me.
Am I right in thinking that this is not so much of a problem in the Scottish Parliament? Its proceedings are rarely reported in England, obviously.
Does anyone “get” Miliband? Is there a more supine and ridiculous political leader in the land? He makes Duncan-Smith look like feckin Churchill.
His vanilla photo-ops are beyond pathetic, and strategically, he could not be playing a worse hand than how he has partnered with the coalition on the No campaign and signed onto every ridiculous idea that crossed their collective minds.
As important as this issue is to the Scots, the English are getting antsy about this now too. The majority do not want to see the Union broken up, and they sure as heck do not like the new devolution plan, which they see as bribing Scotland to remain. Under either outcome, Cameron gets flack.
So back to Miliband. Leader of the opposition, who went full moron by making no effort at all to differentiate himself from the coalition. Cameron is under serious pressure, and Miliband the clowndork has given him free political cover. Whatever the ourcome of the vote, the 3 major parties are all weakened, and somehow Miliband will have ensured that Labour get the worst of it.
That is some achievement.
In my day MPs would meet with the electorate and take questions. What is blatantly apparent is the message from 3 party leaders without an iota of difference between them. They have all pledged greater powers to Scotland if a No vote succeeds. 3 neocon parties, same hymn sheet. They have had 300 years and more to make Scotland an equal partner in the union and dismally, abysmally failed. It is only now when they can see something slipping away that has been buttering English bread from Angus cows for all those years. The time has come for change. Scotland cannot be bribed again.
Yes. Yes. Yes. The ayes have it.
John Edwards I have to disagree with you. I regularly read WoS including the comments and cannot recall ever reading of anyone writing the word scrum. I am a 63yr old woman from Aberdeen and have been called a lot worse in my lifetime ie coffin-dodger and exuberant are two of the milder ones. I have to say it,s water off a ducks back at the moment. Please get your facts right before commenting.
Two of my favourite inspirational songs for Thursday.
Give me hope by Eddy Grant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH2zXEu7nTc
A Change Is Gonna Come, Sam Cooke, 1963
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbO2_077ixs
Good luck Craig and all like minded Scottish people.
Interesting that my first comment, which was also the first comment on this thread, was deleted within minutes. All I’d done was ask for evidence that Ed Miliband is a “war criminal”.
Obviously, as referendum day approaches, some clamping down is deemed necessary by Craig, or one of his minions, to prevent “unhelpful” questions being asked.
Too many times average folks are too naive about giving their support to all kinds of campaigns.
I remember most bitterly, working for Eugene McCarthy’s campaign to be the Democratic candidate for President in 1968.
McCarthy was the most intelligent, best qualified candidate for the White House during the 20th century, and he was the first one to want to end the disastrous Vietnam War.
While the CIA was getting rid of MLK and RFK, McCarthy seemed like he still had a chance to win the nomination, but then secret operatives of the covert government threw his leadership in the campaign threw their support behind fellow Minnesotan Hubert Humphrey.
In Worcester, Mass., Charles Estes, a sociology professor at Clark University, just switched our organization to Humphrey’s without consulting anyone, and Humphrey ended up losing big.
The leadership of the Yes campaign whose names are hard to come by are starting to cause me similar concerns.
Ed
“Does anyone “get” Miliband? Is there a more supine and ridiculous political leader in the land?”
Probably not, but he is not a “war criminal” and Craig’s childish taunts show him up as someone caught up in the student union antics of the Yes campaign.
@Anon1 – Yes, I noticed your comment mysteriously disappeared too. Normally, a comment would be labelled “off-topic” or somesuch. Yours just vanished without any attribution.
Your comment was much along the lines of my own. To which we have yet to have an answer. Why is Milliband being called a “war criminal” by Mr Murray – any particular reason? Or is not liking someone sufficient grounds these days?
Mary, I think they will all be singing Flower of Scotland on Thursday and Friday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyx1xeZo_tk