Delighted that the popular upsurge in Scotland has been reflected in the polls and the mainstream media have started to notice it is happening. There is no doubt that unless the No campaign can find a game-changer (and a curiously untraceable person throwing an egg at Jim Murphy isn’t it), then the people of Scotland are going to seize their chance to escape from neo-con domination and create their own society.
But I also have no doubt the establishment are not going to accept this lightly. They are not simply going to let Scotland’s people walk away with Scotland’s resources. They have yet to make serious use of their most frequent instrument of population control – the “War on Terror”.
The scene has already been set. Cameron has already told parliament that ISIS, or the Caliphate as it calls itself (I always think it is better to call people what they call themselves, rather than some made-up name) poses a major and imminent threat to the UK. Jack Straw is back on Radio 4 saying that Britain must bomb Iraq, as though the very cause of the Caliphate was not the last time he invaded Iraq. Saudi Arabia, which funded and still funds the Caliphate, is giving warnings to the security services of planned attacks in the UK.
The truth is that everybody who has ever carried out an actual Islamic terror attack in the UK (of which there have been very few indeed) has stated that they did so because of British bombings and invasions of Muslim countries – a fact which is very plainly true. The notion that the way to stop this is to bomb or invade Muslim countries is quite incredible.
I fear that we will shortly see arrests of young Muslims in Glasgow and Edinburgh. We will be told they were planning to detonate a dirty nuclear bomb in George Square, or convert the Scott Monument into a giant ballistic missile using fertiliser and Irn Bru. We will be told that only the UK security services have saved Scotland from destruction. The media hype will be on a par with the liquid bomb plot. Like the liquid bomb plot, when it turns out to have been non-existent the media will not tell you that. Anyway the referendum will be over by the time the story is debunked.
In truth, of course, an independent Scotland which does not invade other countries will be a safer place than the continually aggressive and murderous United Kingdom.
Fred,
Normally I agree with your comments on this blog, especially when you are willing to put up with the vitriol hurled at you by supporters of independence for daring to voice your opposition to a Yes vote, but your post regarding the possibility of sectarian violence erupting as a result of a Yes vote is an extrapolation far.
I don’t see how Catholics will be ‘shafted’ in the event of a Yes vote, could you explain what you mean? I speak as an Irish Catholic, and I have experienced very little in the way of sectarianism here in Scotland compared to back home in Northern Ireland. I would also point out that your sweeping statement that Nationalists are Catholic and Unionists are Protestant is no longer true.
“In Ireland the Nationalists are Catholic and the Unionists Protestant. In Scotland the Unionists are Protestant and the Nationalists even more Protestant.
George Galloway is Catholic, Alex Salmond is CoS.”
Wow what kind of cul-de-sac do you live in? What Scotland is this that you talk off? It is certainly not the one I live in or WANT to live in. If you really hold opinions like this then I feel sorry for you. Open your eyes and come out into the light.
“it’s obvious in advance where the biggest problem lies: it’s become impossible to express opposition to free market economics via the main Westminster parties.
Some English and Welsh voters think they’re doing it by voting Ukip. But the referendum offered Scottish voters a way to do it by destroying the union. Whether you think that’s illusory or mistaken, it’s formed the narrative on the streets.”
Paul Mason, Guardian, 3rd September 2014
For me this is the reason I sent in my YES postal vote
BTW toady is the 75th anniversary of the outbreak of WW2
Al Milliner
I didn’t delete it I replied to it (11.55 above). It would be pretty daft to reply to something deleted. And if you are banned, why are you here? You appear to be talking nonsense.
“Some English and Welsh voters think they’re doing it by voting Ukip.”
10% of Scots voters at the last European elections, too.
I posted the facts to back up what I said. Galloway is Catholic, Salmond is CoS, the figures I gave were from the 2001 census returns.
Well where is my post about the bomb plots you were replying to then, Craig???
And yes, you or a moderator has attempted to ban me twice in the last few days.
I’ve been thinking the same thoughts lately. The optimal time to make these terror arrests would be so that they divert attention from the Orange Order march on the 13th. So it makes sense to carry them out on the 12th September. We’ll see. I wouldn’t put it past this government at all.
and the Nationalists even more Protestant.
The Nationalists are obviously whatever the opposition propaganda says they are from day to day. In my time, they were slated (by Labour) for being Tartan Tories, (by Unionists) for having a Catholic bias, and (by the Tories) for being red revolutionaries. Take your pick. Though it’s hard to see how you could get “more protestant” (in terms of bellowing about it) than this:
http://www.sconews.co.uk/news/18734/is-glasgow-planning-a-u-turn-on-orange-walks/
Note: Labour council supporting this display of in-your-face ‘religious’ hatred
Oh, and the Liberals called the SNP Tartan Tories as well. How bitterly ironic. Eh, Clegg?
“I fear you are losing the plot. Alex Salmond being a member of the Church of Scotland and George Galloway being a Catholic in no sense makes the independent movement a sectarian one. The idea that an independent Scotland would take some kind of action against Catholics is, frankly, absolutely bonkers.”
But I have seen a video of a Nationalist supporter saying he didn’t think we should be nice to each other or civilised and we should not be pleasant to the “traitors in our midst”.
Nationalists do have quite a reputation throughout history and talk like that hardly instils confidence this time they are any different. You get people on blogs inciting sectarian hatred and then things like this happen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-13129139
Fred,
“I posted the facts to back up what I said. Galloway is Catholic, Salmond is CoS, the figures I gave were from the 2001 census returns.”
Those two things are certianly facts but they don’t support in any way your claim that sectarian violence would result from a Yes vote. You also didn’t elaborate on what you meant that Scottish Catholics would be ‘shafted’?
There are many legitimate reasons to reject independence without dragging in the remote prospect of sectarian strife.
I see BBC News are moving this afternoon from Freeview channel 80 to channel 150. This appears to puts them between “Connect 4” and “Adult Playboy”. Surrealism squared?
Success has many fathers, and failure is an orphan.
In a world of fear and fashion, confidence in the past decays; and cynicism ensures only the well-off can afford that historical decadence called ‘culture’.
In a genuine crisis, appropriate radicalism is necessary. But when socialist subversives induce fear through bent propaganda, there can be no appropriate radical response, because the crisis is synthetic.
It is an ironic tragedy that the independence movement invokes the history of Scottish psychological fortitude, by advocating ‘running away from the problem’. I hope the Scots wise up to the possibility that they are being lead by a stalking-horse:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10799027/Alex-Salmond-Rupert-Murdoch-is-a-remarkable-man.html
I was just thinking that there’s someone who hasn’t yet spoken up in the Scottish independence vote ‘farewell fortnight,’ and blow me down (up?) he’s come out with a quote in the Jerusalem Post. He didn’t quite yet mention Hibernia – just focussed on the made-up ISIS mob…. you don’t need to read the article as the URL says it all
Fred: Didn’t one of Better Together’s poster girls tweet something along the lines of “Got out Xmas lights. Like taigs most of them don’t work and look better hanging from a tree”?
Isn’t the Orange Order on the side of Better Together? The religious divide such as it is in Scotland seems not to be affiliated to one side in particular. (I wonder what Mr Murphy would make of her comments?)
Frankly apart from a small number of people, I don’t think religion plays a major role in the life of Scotland. I personally have no idea what religion any of my friends follow. I’ve never seen a single person I know (apart from elderly relatives) go to church of any kind.
Craig: Brilliant post and I’m pretty chuffed that this is what I have been saying for some long time.
They simply can’t afford us to go. They never expected it to get this close, and if it looks like it’s going to happen they will do whatever it takes and hang the consequences.
I await a grave announcement from Buckingham Palace, or a terrorist threat saved by the magnificent secret police of the UK (taking a day off from protecting weirdo members of the establishment from prosecution), or a war.
Jack Straw is a right wee blood curdling warmonger isn’t he!
Craig,
I fear that the kind of fear mongering media backlash of the kind you described, is already happening. Check out yesterday’s London Evening Standard.
“The bombers filmed themselves describing their intentions and their reasons for carrying out the attacks. I would have thought that alone proves they were responsible”
Father Christmas always used to leave me a hand-written note.
“I always think it is better to call people what they call themselves, rather than some made-up name”
So you’d call a ‘Brother’ a “nigger”!?
Mode
“I wonder if the sudden readiness of the MSM to report a swing in favour of YES is a tactic. Until recently they have projected a comfortable win for NO with the implication that YES voters are losers. Perhaps Westminster recognise that this strategy is failing, is encouraging apathy in the NO vote. Perhaps they calculate now is the time to scare NO voters to the poll stations and encourage complacency in the YES vote.”
____________________
The same thought had crossed my mind.
But if the objective is to mobilise the (No) vote, that seems legitimate enough.
After all, do not politicians and public alike frequently bemoan the mow turn-out in elections of various kinds?
******************
Habbabkuk for a big turn-out.
“the low turn-out” for God’s sake. 🙂
@Tris
I’m no great fan of Unionists either if their Unionism is based on nationalist sentiments.
When is that vote again? “Hurry Sundown”
How will NATO vote in the Scottish independence debate? Dame Mariot Leslie (UK Ambassador to Nato, Retd.) is voting YES
Meanwhile, ahead of sanctions, Americans are panic buying AK-47’s
I don’t suppose these facts are related?
Craig says
“Vronsky
I should say 4 and 5 are certain. The others range from possible to probable.”
____________________
Three points:
1/. It is interesting to see how the focus has shifted on this blog. The first stage – on anticipation of a No vote – was to accuse the Better Together campaign of dirty tricks and dirty campaigning. The second and current stage – with the polls apparently showing a move towards Yes – is to predict how Westminster will stymie what may be the outcome of the referendum.
I remain unconvinced by either of those two phobias.
2/. Vronsky’s 4 and 5 are not discrete points, they are aspects of one single point.
3/. The thought apparently underlying those two (sub)points is a curious one, because it seems to be another way of saying : if Westminster does not give the Scottish negotiators everything they ask for in the negotiations, that would be equivalent to Westminster attempting to nullify the outcome of the referendum.
THat is not a reasonable or rational point of view and renders the whole notion of negotiations otiose.
Al Milliner
“The bombers filmed themselves describing their intentions and their reasons for carrying out the attacks. I would have thought that alone proves they were responsible.”
_________________________
I haven’t yet read the following comments, soi someone light already have made the point. But anyway:
Some Excellence or other is bound to claim on all seriousness that the film you refer to was faked and that the people appearing were actors.
Exactly as some Eminences claimed on this blog wrt the Boston marathon explosions.
I’m afraid there is no limit to the loopiness that is allowed out to wander the streets of Britain.
I’m not 100% convinced Westminster cares if Scotland leaves. If it was so important to them why has Cameron et al not been in Scotland being very vocal for pro union. It seems illogical to me. I don’t believe its because he thinks the Scots would reject him, his ego would never accept that ! So why is he not there, why is he not on the streets making a case for the No campaign.
Why have they sent ( if they did send) a couple of idiots to front the No campaign by default causing a large upsurge in the Yes vote in the polls. I honestly believe that Westminster simply doesn’t care if Scotland leaves, and that should worry the Yes people, because if they don’t care… why don’t they care ?
I also don’t understand the use of rUK. With or without Scotland we are still the UK. Its odd what folk can find insulting, but I find that phrase ( as an Englishman born and bred) pretty insulting. Is that a Yes term or a No term ? I don’t know where it came from.
My honest view is that Scotland should go her own way, Devo max is a really bad solution for the UK and Scotland and we will just end up here again in 20 years time having the same discussion. I also cant help but feel that on the day, when it actually comes to putting a tick in a box the Yes campaign will lose because its one thing supporting an idea when stopped in the street, its another thing altogether when your decision is final and irreversible.
Just for the record I would much rather Scotland played a full role within the framework of the UK but that can never ever happen now, too much water under the bridge.
The thing that bothers me most however is that no matter which way it goes the telly debates have done huge harm to the views of the English in relation to the Scottish and visa versa. I had to turn the last one off half way through, the nationalist crap from both sides was making me angry and I have NO reason to dislike the Scottish people… is this a divide and conquer technique for something we don’t yet know about ?
It seems the question for Indy Scots is ‘when’ not ‘if’ they join NATO.
http://scotreferendum.com/questions/how-long-will-it-take-to-join-nato/
Should they join Craig?
“Seven warships are moving into Cardiff Bay and protesters from across the UK and from all over the world have moved into a park on the outskirts Newport and set up their peace camp there.”
http://www.itv.com/news/2014-09-02/seven-warships-move-into-cardiff-bay-as-nato-leaders-convene-in-wales-for-summit/
The Welsh are unimpressed.
http://stopwar.org.uk/events/protest-the-nato-summit#.VAcg4SgcWFI
Fred?
http://southwalesanarchists.wordpress.com/