The referendum result is the loss of a chance to dispute the hegemony of the neo-con corporate elite in the international world. My heart is still bursting with pride that 45% of Scots – a people devoid of political autonomy for three hundred years – had the nerve, intellect and will to see through the avalanche of propaganda from the entire mainstream media, political establishment, banking sector and corporate world. I met numerous voters who had received letters from their employers – including Diageo, BP, RNS and many others – telling them to vote No or their job was in danger. I met the old lady in Dundee who was told by the Labour Party that independent Scotland would flood the country with immigrants, and a Romanian building worker in Edinburgh who had been told by the Labour Party that Independent Scotland would deport all East Europeans.
Yesterday the Daily Telegraph, Daily Express and Daily Mirror in Scotland all had precisely the same full page photo on their front cover – not a startling news snap, but an arty concoction of male silhouettes and union and Scottish flags. The Mirror had photoshopped it to remove the blue from the union jack, but it was the same distinctive photo. There could be no more stark example of the fake diversity of the mainstream media.
Just as the Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem parties have been startlingly shown up as precisely the same creatures of corporate masters offering no policy differences whatsoever, merely a false tribalism. As they partied together at Better Together last night – the only party in the whole of Scotland, at which everybody present lives very, very well at taxpayers’ expense – it was impossible to tell which brand of Tory was which.
Keeping the popular momentum going, keeping all those wonderful people I met and spoke to engaged in trying to engineer a different society, is going to be a hard struggle. But we always knew that. The goal of independence must remain as a powerful unifying factor.
Through media onslaught people were convinced that a No vote was a vote for Devo Max. Actually after a fortnight of pontificating it will fall off the news agenda of the mainstream. Nothing significant will happen. The Westminster view is that we can have any powers we want at our glorified council in Scotland as long as we still don’t get the revenue from oil or whisky – and still provide cannon fodder for neo-con wars abroad, house Trident and are subject to draconian Westminster imposed attacks on civil liberties.
Anyway the dress rehearsal is over. At the next referendum – which is only five years away, after the UK has voted to leave the EU – we will not be putting forward Salmond’s Independence Lite, (I am not criticising, he carried it superhumanly far). We will be proposing a fully independent Scottish Republic, out of NATO, with its own currency, sweeping land reform to give Scotland’s land back to its people, nationalisation of railways and public utilities, a genuine minimum wage you can live on, a humane benefits system and strict regulation and controls on banks and bankers.
I am eating an excellent lunch and looking forward to it.
Quoth Tony M: “What Ruth has written looks absolutely correct and perceptive…”
(re. The British plan to steal Scotland’s independence referendum By Wayne Madsen)
I don’t know Tony – after a bit of a search on Wayne Madsen, looks like he may be a couple of slates short of a watertight roof…
Nationalism is a little like sports fans. I’m PROUD of my team ! What exactly is that vicarious emotion? Usually, pride is associated with personal accomplishment. Very few actually contribute to their team’s success so that pride seems empty.
People who believe there was election fraud need to careful. I am not sure there was. Unless there is proof we should not make accusations. Nevertheless it is right and proper to investigate any allegations. Be wary of this type of thing labelled as Scottish referendum fraud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9RCe55y0dw
Ballot boxes were transparent in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine but not in Scotland. But most likely this is something put out by the spooks to discredit Eastern Ukraine, Crimea and the Scottish Yes vote all at one go. Unless you have proof to the contrary accept the vote. There have been enough real conspiracies (false flags) to not allow ourselves to be dragged down in such a way that the clowns can accuse us of supporting ludicrously blatant filmaking in attempts to make us look as stupid as them.
While suspected irregularities should be investigated I am with Fred on this, though I do not trust him in many other ways. Wait! If the spooks are involved they will have thought it through and if there is widespread support for silly videos, then those that support them could be made to look irresponsible.
“Now we can move forwards together united for a better Scotland”
If your Scottish the answer is clearly no. Did you not get the memo. You think those promises will be fulfilled. lol
You do what we say. Submit to your rule.
Fact is the attitude has never been this working together nonsense.
“In that case you should have supported independence.”
No.
I didn’t put up any posters, I did not wear and badges, there were no stickers on my car, I did not go round knocking on anybody’s doors, I am not a member of any political party.
I supported what I decided would be best for the people of Scotland by going to town yesterday and voting, that is all I did.
I am quite capable of deciding for myself which way to vote thank you.
John; On the contrary. If there are questions (and there are) they should be exposed to antiseptic sunlight. Obviously there are irregularities and they should be inspected.
You have to ask why SNP is so compliant. Why is NO ONE suggesting a recount? The tight Scottish purse?
Address the biased media in the same glib manner, as you’ve done with genuine concerns over ballot rigging on a large scale which have not been addressed at all and what we’ve seen is probably just the lesser part of it. Your peddling an identical line to certain trolls on certain other blogs, you’re a tool of something or someone. I’d love to hear one more time how you gloss over the over-whelmingly anti-independence media and their disgraceful conduct and role. Happy with that are you?
Well the violence has began, and the Nazi saluting celebrants are happy with the “no” win.
How far are the “winners” prepared to push their “victory” to?
Thanks Peacewisher,
Brand’s makeing good points on lots of issues lately. Like what he is doing atm.
“I am quite capable of deciding for myself which way to vote thank you.”
less good at justifying it.
“less good at justifying it.”
Well fortunately I don’t have to justify anything to you sunshine.
I’m not sure if I got all the commas, brackets and quotes in the right plac..but they still haven’t banned me on The Daily Telegraph..well a bit Benedict Brogan – completely banned me..but then he got fired..that must be hard cos I am doing this for free..no me pays my salary. I never complained about Benedict Banning Me. I just re-registered with as close as I could to my banned avatar. I certainly didn’t want and never asked for Benedict to be banned..It was just that one day//he came over a bit ferociously catholicly religiously..and I replied..I don’t think the bloke is evil or anything..just a bit of an ignorant Twat..and Charles Murray…do you want me to go on..I don’t think these people are intrinsically evil..they just atteneded the fina course..The Mind Programming Course..I skipped it..My mate had told me about it..I already realised..I said O.K. I will go on any course you send me..anywhere…all expenses paid..but at night I sleep in my own bed with My Wife..they said O.K. Can you Fly To Scotland Tomorrow..I said O.K…and that is Me.
You want the links..Just go and Live Your Life and Give Them To Me
Tony
“Well fortunately I don’t have to justify anything to you sunshine.”
Did I ask, or try to force you to?
You sound a bit nasty to me. No wonder you’d assume what you did.
What of the ‘Vow’? Chunky mark nailed it in my early entry.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/vow2a.jpg
Is this where we shoud be looking rather than trying to reform electoral/referendum systems which will always be open to abuse?
Is this the kind of currency we should be considering if we intend to remove the dead hand of bankers and their political servants?
Since the blockchain cannot be uninvented, maybe it’s just a matter of time before the dammed-up aspirations of the global untermenshen burst the increasingly discredited systems of kleptocrat-controlled “democracy” and fiat currency.
…
In the meantime 46+% of Scots will continue to resist being manupulated and those others who reluctantly chose the security of the abusers they know will have time to consider whether they will allow themselves to be fecked-over again.
…
And here’s now here’s an offering guaranteed to wash off all those stubborn bits of troll-crud…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vshD7FLuVpI
Thanks sofia. You have eclectic taste and a nuanced touch.
Mine are primordial. 🙂
Paraquat and Dioxin don’t touch me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbI0cMyyw_M
@John. Have you been got at? The worlds powers tried to blame Russia for MH17 based on a video. Did they not?
I’m with Ben about this on principle, although probably wouldn’t be a huge number of votes wrongly counted anyway. Say 0.1% at most. Mostly about fear and loathing in the mainstream media and its effect on pensioners. How low can they get? But it worked.
A number of petitions doing the rounds. Good old 38 degrees now have one, if any of you are interested:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-for-scottish-referendum-vote-count?bucket=&source=twitter-share-button
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VuDjJ9KIxM
Fred,
Sure, but it’s okay for people to mull over the result, is it not? If some suggest that propaganda was partly responsible for the No vote, let them – it is hardly a radical position. I understand you were strongly gunning for a No vote, but – since your side won – there’s no harm in pontificating how that result came about.
In the meantime, your hostility to Clark is dreadfully misplaced. I think you misread his comment above yours – surely if you are identified as pro-Palestinian and “an aging hippy” then you can take it as a compliment? Sure, Clark finds your opposition to independence irrational, as I’ve have done many a time. Don’t be so sensitive – and apologise to Clark please in private.
I continue to be frustrated with your abusive, sweary tone on this board. I understand you believe it is a defence mechanism – Clark has even defended that in the past – but it demeans whatever your views are, and makes this place less pleasant to visit.
I was just trying to make the fuckin thing work..so you don’t freeze to death in winter. I thought it rather important…and so did they. I am talking about all of The UK.
We did it..they couldn’t believe it
Tony
Members of the Scottish Defense League singing “Scotland is British,” that’s priceless. In Scotland too the Brits use W.O.G.s for colonial administration. Graham Walker is the Tewfik Pasha of the north. Talk about British heritage.
Yes, Cameron was – unually – interesting. He made a point of saying no re-runs, so clearly wants us to consider the matter ‘decided’. Curiously, he also brought up the subject of Scottish MP’s voting on English-only policies. Where did that come from? Never underestimate the ability of a politician to take advantage of a crisis. I think we’ll see some very dubious stuff coming from the Tories in the near future …
But yeah the devo max stuff will disappear soon enough, I’m surprised anyone bought it. Maybe they didn’t. Perhaps the actual threats – not propaganda threats – coming directly from employers, telling people they may lose their jobs was a factor. This is understandable. A hard-core independence fan was never going to pay attention to any threats, but the indifferent might.
On the upside, I’m glad the Labour Party sides with the status quo. They have cemented their irrelvenace in the minds of many, including myself. And Milliband will lose his job either way.
So many issues covered on this thread. At least two of you are suggesting Cameron is doing well, and just about everyone seems to have had it with Miliband’s labour. Talk about law of unintended consequences.
Apparently, tomorrow there’s an orange marching band parading in Glasgow – how’s that for timing/synchronicity?
“John; On the contrary. If there are questions (and there are) they should be exposed to antiseptic sunlight. Obviously there are irregularities and they should be inspected.”
Well Ben it is only obvious when it is proven. Peacewisher, nobody has got at me yet. I did write:
“Nevertheless it is right and proper to investigate any allegations.”
But you cannot make accusations without proof. It is dangerous ground to be walking.
“You have to ask why SNP is so compliant. Why is NO ONE suggesting a recount? The tight Scottish purse?”
There could be a hundred reasons Ben. If the spooks have something on Salmond, affairs, honey-traps, whatever, it might be one reason. He might have pledged (in the lodge perhaps) that whatever the result he would honour it. Money might be an issue. Today election campaigns are costly. Lots of people are asking for, if not a recount, scrutiny of the vote.
Craig,
A friend sent me this:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUR-HgAtwtg&feature=player_detailpage
What are your thoughts?
Courtenay
Ben: Not often you hear words like “vicarious” bandied about these days.
It’s always tough when an election or referendum doesn’t go your way. Probably because it suddenly hits you that all these people – the populace at large – do not share whatever values or understandings you assumed. They’re no longer like me, and I can’t identify with them so well any more – even harsher when it’s people you’re living with.
As for Scotland, I was hoping for a leap of faith – they could have become a first-world Cuba. No need for a spiteful American embargo, and that would never fly here anyway. Without the drag of war adventurism, and back-stopping a casino banking system, they could have become a mighty symbol of what can be done for the citizens of a modern country. (Of course, this is achieved in many northern European countries, but nobody knows anything about them.)
We so desperately need a major change, because we’re screwed on any number of fronts right now. The status quo favours the investor classes and the are uninterested in change other than an increase in the power of corporations. The environment, social inequality, overpopulation, the degrading climate – so much needs to be done. It could have started here, but The Establishment quashed it, by appealing to fear, uncertainty, and revenge if it were not allowed to continue.
I should add a quite explanation on my Cuba comment. Cuba manages a world class health system, and educates its citizens likewise, in the face of the most longstanding and cruel blockade, for over half a century. It survives on less than 5% per capita than the US, yet has none of the absolute poverty. Cuba’s health system is available for all, and no “food insecurity” which bedevils a sizeable proportion of the US.
Scotland could have done very much more, with its significant advantages in income and resources (not to mention no US imposed blockade). As it is, we won’t find out.
Regarding the vote itself. I’m quite sure there was gerrymandering, and have serious concerns about those postal votes. 800. 000 is very high. Wouldn’t suprise me in the least if the result was basically a crock, and Yes actually won. Short of strong evidence I guess you just have to shrug, accept the unfairness. Many said early on that only a strong Yes vote could win the day, so strong that it couldn’t be rigged without being too obvious. I still take this position personally. Doubtless I will be called a whiner, but I don’t care. Vote rigging does happen, and the deniers are just being silly. If there is enough at stake, strange things happen.
But I’m reasonably positive. People are seeing through the bullshit, which, for the future, is a promising sign.
“Is this where we shoud be looking rather than trying to reform electoral/referendum systems which will always be open to abuse?”
Don’t know enough about it but my own view is that all of us should, like Craig and myself, use their own names, not be ashamed of our views, or how we vote, and respect other people’s points of view, providing they are not insulting. The transparent polling box is the way forward, transparent in that everybody knows our political persuasion at a certain point in time. If you vote Yes, or No, it should not matter. But it creates an audit of the published results. Transparent.
And why should we hide them. We tell people here on Craig Murray’s blog, and on Facebook, and other social networking sites what we believe. It disarms the secret services in that if you post what you believe (at a cetain point in time) and this can be checked against how you voted (at a cetain point in time) and there is a genuine people-managed audit against the resultit speaks of fair play. Of course all the trolls have handles and socks and even gloves and that would be disastrous, at least for them, having to post comments under one name. Lecture over.
Glenn; I know you are familiar with US politics and you are spot on about disappointment in our peers when they display a different point-of view. I was totally blind-fold fucked by Obama and it was the final exam for my graduation. I’ve been to the puppet show enough to recognize the script, but that is only a recent development (10 years or so) as I was mildly dissident in younger years but didn’t yet understand the game plan that was being played upon. So I understand folks who react out of fear of loss and recognize the dilemma of working a job, raising a family and all the frills that go with it, and how that leaves little time for reflection. I am one of the lucky ones who were able keep up over the decade and that takes precious time and energy.
People everywhere share dna and survival is a major player in that shared characteristic. It all depends on what one infers ‘survival’ to mean. For you and I it may mean the survival of our mind-set, or a sense of connectivity to other beings. For others it may be just keeping food on the table because the paycheck only meets expenses as they arrive. Or, it may be they just want to keep their job until the last daughter is out of college.
The Scots have gotten engaged and that’s a good thing. I just hope the momentum keeps apace of the future need for their participation in molding their future. the heart rate goes down usually.