In the past dozen years, the armed forces of NATO countries, whether operating under the NATO banner or in related ad-hoc coalitions, have killed many hundreds of thousands of people. Of those hundreds of thousands of people, only a few hundred at most ever had any connection to any attack on a NATO country.
Whatever modern NATO has become, a defensive alliance it is not; that fact is beyond rational dispute.
It is also the case that the situation in countries where NATO has been most active in killing people, including Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Pakistan, has deteriorated. It has deteriorated politically, economically, militarily and socially. The notion that NATO member states could bomb the world into good was only ever believed by crazed and fanatical people like Tony Blair and Jim Murphy of the Henry Jackson Society. It really should not have needed empirical investigation to prove it was wrong, but it has been tried, and has been proved wrong.
The NATO states as a group have also embarked on remarkably similar reductions in the civil liberties of their own populations during this period. NATO to me is symbolised by the fact that its Secretary General, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, as Danish Prime Minister blatantly lied to the Danish parliament about Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction. When Major Frank Grevil released material that proved Rasmussen was lying, it was Grevil who was jailed for three years. In the United States, no CIA operative has been prosecuted for their widespread campaign of torture, but John Kiriakou is in jail for revealing it.
NATO’s attempt to be global arbiter and enforcer has been disastrous at all levels. Its plan to redeem itself by bombing the Caliphate in Iraq and Syria is a further sign of madness. Except of course that it will guarantee some blowback against Western targets, and that will “justify” further bombings, and yet more profit for the arms manufacturers. On that level, it is very clever and cynical. NATO provides power to the elite and money to the wealthy.
But what of Putin’s Russia, I hear you say? I am no fan of Putin – I think he is a nasty, dangerous little dictator. But little is the operative word.
Russia is not a great power. Its GDP is 10% of the GDP of the EU. Its economy is the same size as Italy’s. The capabilities of Russia’s armed forces are massively exaggerated by the security industry, including the security services, and by arms manufacturers. The entire area of Eastern Ukraine which Russia is disputing has a GDP smaller than the city of Dundee.
Russia is only any kind of “military threat” because of its nuclear arsenal. The way forward to peace is active international nuclear disarmament – and the existence of NATO is the greatest obstacle to that. The idea that almost the entire developed world needs to encircle and contain Russia with massive military threat, is as sensible as the idea that it needs to encircle the UK or France – both of which have substantially larger and more diversified economies than Russia and much larger and more technologically advanced arms industries.
NATO is by far the largest danger to world peace. It should be dissolved as a matter of urgency.
Personally I doubt that they do pay nowadays. It would be interesting to know when the payments stopped.
Wales would love to have Scotland’s Nukes…http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/uk-nuclear-deterrent-welcome-wales-2053261
John Goss
You still don’t get it do you? You outed no one.
We might remember the correlation between the US having ‘no boots on the ground’ in Iraq, means that one-thousand ‘advisors’ do not qualify as troops. and the massive presence of Russian troops in the East.
What’s good for the goose….
Craig; It is most likely the Russian troops wandered over the border in error. When I was living in a farmhouse in wild and woolly Wales I had a troop of SAS soldiers wander out of the forest onto my land trying to find their way home.
Could NATO be called to account for the human tragedy in E. Ukraine? Could the ICC subpoena that corrupted body before the Hague?
http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=OBR&date=20140902&id=17896457
Is the West responsible for the mess in Ukraine?
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141769/john-j-mearsheimer/why-the-ukraine-crisis-is-the-wests-fault
No guarantee of free university education under Labour says Jim Murphy
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Scottish Labour MP Jim Murphy has refused to confirm that free university education will remain, if Labour is returned to power under devolution.
Murphy, who was appearing in a televised debate on Scottish independence, was asked whether a Labour Government at Holyrood would continue the policy of free university education.
A clearly uncomfortable Murphy refused to answer, saying only that the policy would be revealed in Scottish Labour’s manifesto for the 2016 Holyrood elections.
He said: “Our party will set out its manifesto at the next election. This is much more important than one manifesto or one election.”
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Remember Johann Lamont’s something for nothing comment.
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read more.
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9690-no-guarantee-of-free-university-education-under-labour-says-jim-murphy
@LaGuerre, anent “Nobody had the right to leave” Fortunately that at least has changed. See Article 13 in the NATO Charter, to which the Scottish will want to turn when they gain their independence. A straightfoward notice of denunciation, wait a year, then you’re out.
Just in time…another Scot Indy thread ahead.
Relations between the OSCE and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) have been crucial in developing the security architecture of post-Cold War Europe. Since the beginning of the Helsinki process, NATO has significantly contributed to the debate within the CSCE/OSCE on developing the OSCE Security Model. NATO’s important role in promoting security in Europe is emphasized in a number of OSCE documents, such as the 2003 OSCE Strategy to Address Threats to Security and Stability in the 21st Century.
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After September 11, relations have continued to expand, reflecting the new focus on agendas set by the OSCE participating States at the recent meetings of the OSCE Ministerial Council and by the NATO Member States at the NATO Istanbul Summit. The Istanbul Summit Communiqué states that “NATO and the OSCE have largely complementary responsibilities and common interests, both functionally and geographically.
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NATO will continue to further develop co-operation with the OSCE in areas such as conflict prevention, crisis management and post-conflict rehabilitation.”
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There are 57 members of the OSCE, and according to the above statement taken from their site, they are very close to NATO and have common goals, Hmm! What exactly is NATO’s goal at the moment.?
In the ritual ceremonies of Gorsedd Beirdd Ynys Prydain at the National Eisteddfod of Wales the cry goes out from the Archdruid “A oes heddwch?” Is there peace? and the crowd respond “Heddwch!” There is peace. Sadly this year this seems to be even more deluded than usual with NATO trampling on the vineyard of pacificism that is Wales.
So, NATO, get the hell out of Wales, please.
Scotland, say YES, and Cymru, deffrowch o’th gwsg hir! Cherish the hen iaith and demand your freedom.
ELSO ; “And of course the main trigger in Osama Bin Laden turning against the US and the West was because of their involvement, at the behest of Saudi Arabia, in dealing with your friend’s invasion of Kuwait”
More complete rubbish from ELSO/ResDes, it’s well known that it was the Israeli attack on Beirut that turned OBL against the West;
“In 2004, Osama bin Laden claimed that the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Centre were motivated by the Siege of Beirut in 1982, maintaining: ‘I couldn’t forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere.”
http://www.kent.ac.uk/english/radicaldistrust/projects/siege-of-beirut/
The International Organization for Migration (IOM) and the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) are important partners of the OSCE, and regular participants in the annual Tripartite process between the UN, Council of Europe and OSCE.
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The CEO of the Red Cross and other senior administrators receive obscene salaries and other massive perks, all of which are paid directly from the man/woman in the street’s direct contributions to these supposed ‘good causes’.
In 2012, the salary of the president, Marsha Evans was $651,957 per annum and the total revenue of the Red Cross was well in excess of $3bn per annum (three billion dollars!).
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When questioned on why millions of dollars weren’t donated to the 9/11 liberty fund the head of the Red Cross gave this reply.
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The then Red Cross President Dr. Bernadine Healy arrogantly responded when accused of withholding of funds by stating, “The Liberty Fund is a war fund. It has evolved into a war fund. We must have blood readiness. We must have the ability to help our troops if we go into a ground war. We must have the ability to help the victims of tomorrow.”
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http://chrisspivey.org/john-hamer-charities/
It’s somewhat disturbing that OSCE and NATO are such butt-buddies, RoS. OSCE has been doing some good and showing integrity. Cross-contamination is an issue.
RoS, the NATO/OSCE relationship is indeed complementary. OSCE came out of the Helsinki Final Act and it reflects that in its aquis. Basically the division of labor is, NATO shits all over human rights and OSCE pulls them out and cleans them off.
http://www.austria.org/human-rights/hr-and-the-osce
“You outed no one.”
Even when you’ve been shown to be untrustworthy, a liar and a homo-sycophant, you’re still in denial.
John Goss
Let me spell it out for you stupid: I am related to Resident Dissident we are not the same person. Though perhaps you should explain why I should account for myself to a gutter creature such as yourself or put up with your garbage?
ESLO/Resident Dissident, you’re so up yourself you’re starting to believe your own shit.
Macky
http://factsanddetails.com/world/cat58/sub386/item2357.html
Moderator
Do I have to put up with such abuse from John Goss.
It’s somewhat disturbing that OSCE and NATO are such butt-buddies, RoS. OSCE has been doing some good and showing integrity. Cross-contamination is an issue.
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Ben, the OSCE are in league with just about every European body, the US is also a member of the OSCE, you can’t honestly say that NATO, don’t influence the decisions of the OSCE.
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http://www.osce.org/networks/111486
Craig,
Ethnic russians in the baltic state may apreciate the increase in standart of life or otherwise, but they oftentimes look back into the soviet times with rose-tinted glases. For example they tend to admire Gorvachev and despise the drunken Yelstin, which they blame (righly) of selling out to the west.
I am not making it up, neither I have read about it in some blog or the other. I know a number of baltic fellas of russian descent and they are all like that. They are migtly pissed of at what they see as disgusting anti-russian propaganda in places like the Beeb. Moreover, most ethnic russians in the baltics tend to ridicule baltic-state nationalism as a 11th hour fade.
About Ukraine I recognise I am extrapolating somehow. But then there is a strong Russian ethnic element in east Ukraine. All russians I know are very nice people, but become red-army like fanatics when it comes to percieved agresion.
When I saw the headlines Celebrity Hacks, I thought for a minute that the “IS” had got themselves a scarlet Johannsen or such for their next hacking enactment. But talking of executions in the USA’s “theatres” of war (you have to laugh at their choice of terms (or you would if it weren’t all so tragic)), there have undeniably been brutal summary executions carried out there, though not at the hand of “IS” puppets so much as that of their puppetmasters on the DC links or sprawled at their games consoles in Creech.
Such was the fate, for instance, of 68-year-old Mamana Bibi, gathering vegetables from the family plot in Ghundi Kala village one sunny afternoon when she was torn to pieces by President Obama, while her grandchildren looked on. Nabeela, aged 8, says: “I wasn’t scared of drones before, but now when they fly overhead I wonder, will I be next?”
“Moderator
Do I have to put up with such abuse from John Goss.”
Yep. Here is the profile. Early in the morning between 7 am and 8 am you have regularly posted comments as Resident Dissident, likewise from about 7.30 pm to 11 pm, at which time I suspect you go to bed. In between these hours from approximately 10 am to 5 pm you post comments as ESLO. I cannot recall any exceptions except at weekends when you are Resident Dissident. Then there was the slip-up where you forgot which persona you were. It is not Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, but Mr Hyde I and Mr Hyde II.
The Russian armed forces are far more formidable than acknowledged here
They have 2,562 active main battle tanks and 12,500 in reserve.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Ground_Forces
By comparison the British army is reducing to an almost comic 156 main battle tanks. Despite massive (incompetent and poor value) military spending here. Such is the genius of our governments.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-army-reduced-to-one-single-tank-regiment-9644238.html
Mochyn 69
deffrowch o’th gwsg hir
Tecwyn Ifan fan?
The West started this destruction of Ukraine according to Victoria Nuland at a cost of $5 billion to arrange a coup!
Its all about the dollar – banking & global American Hegemony
“In between these hours from approximately 10 am to 5 pm you post comments as ESLO.”
Well there goes one theory crackpot.
I did write approximately. But never the two (Resident Dissident and ESLO together) up to now except when you were using the same IP address.