Trident, Austerity and Dentures. Those are the key components of the Labour brand in Scotland. The unionists demographic is overwhelmingly old. Independence had a majority in every age group except the over 55s.
Unionism is not a factor of age in the sense that once people reach 55 they turn into Unionists. People over 55 were the only Unionist age group, because they are also the only age group which predominantly does not use social media, buys deadtree newspapers and watches the regular BBC news bulletins. They are also influenced by residual memories of Empire and Second World War (old Tories). They remember the days when banks were viewed as respectable institutions, when the Labour Party helped the poor rather than supported the rich, and when public figures were widely believed not to lie.
There are very few replacement adults coming along with those kind of beliefs. Unionism is dying out. That is why Jack Straw has launched an initiative to try to outlaw future secession (at the same time contradicting his own position on Kosovan independence against the will of Serbia). Straw as one of the architects of the Iraq War has a strong track record of causing violence that kills many people. His idea of blocking the constitutional road to independence would cause violence beyond doubt.
The high energy community campaign for independence needs no encouragement from me to keep going. There seems general agreement that the May 2015 UK general election provides an immediate campaigning focus. I agree with that, and will address it, but it is also important that we are not corralled purely into the institutional agenda when our great virtue is that we are unconfined and extra-institutional. So I suggest a second vital focus, and that is Trident. Opposition to Trident unites everybody. Let us launch a great movement of protest aimed at Trident, including demonstration and direct action, and let us invite those in the rest of the UK who also oppose Trident to join us in that campaign. This should be a priority.
On the Westminster elections, there seems immediate consensus we should have a single pro-independence candidate per constituency. I strongly support that. There will be difficulties on how to achieve it, and I hope these can be worked through quickly. Tommy Sheridan has suggested that everybody should support the existing SNP candidates, which is very self-denying of him. I see virtue in this. But the Yes campaign was very much wider than the SNP, and I think the momentum could much better be maintained if we start with a clean sheet and local Yes groups choose their candidates through an open selection protest – in which the SNP candidates are welcome to participate, as are Greens and SSP and Solidarity and individuals, and the people will decide.
This is not institutionally neat – there is no clear membership of Yes groups. It requires self-abnegation on the part of existing party candidates. It removes the power of men in suits to screen candidates for acceptability. But those are good things.
I described the independence movement as having a revolutionary spirit. We should nurture that, not try to hammer it into the shape of a regular political party. In the long term there are some very good ideas on a new kind of participative project from the Common Weal. In the short term we need to keep the spirit moving, and go with the flow,
HABB
——————–
For goodness sake get of your high horse, and stop attacking,others who comment, your first comment on this thread and already you’re on the attack.
Iain Hill,
I am not exactly young myself!!
CanSpeccy
“Now they can’t wait for all the noers to die off. Trouble is, by the time the noers are dead the adolescent yessers will have got older and slightly wiser, which means they will be like the now dead noers..”
________________
The above – with which I agree – reminds me of the great and wise political analyst, poet and Sovietologist Robert Conquest’s Rule N°1 (or perhaps it was Rule N°2), viz :
“Everyone is right wing in matters one knows something about”.
It seems that despite having a referendum on the most favourable terms imaginable, the Nats just can’t take No for an answer.
Next time please allow 5-year-olds the vote and be done with it. Anything. There really is nothing worse than a whinging Scot.
_____________________________
Anon1
Yes we’ve heard this type of comment from you everyday since Friday, change the record, gloating only makes you, look even more childish.
Residenofscotland
“HABB
——————–
For goodness sake get of your high horse, and stop attacking,others who comment, your first comment on this thread and already you’re on the attack.”
_________________
Just tying up some loose ends, old boy.
You yourself are not a paragon of politeness, moderation and on-topicness either, are you.
C’mon Craig. Ian and I have admitted our aged disability. You’re considerably younger so shout it out !
David Cameron coming under scrutiny, after revealing a conversation between the Queen and himself to Michael Bloomberg, old Dizzie Lizzie was said to be elated, at the crushing of Scottish independence, said Cameron, to Bloomberg.
Republic
Yes. Nobody I met campaigning on the streets wanted Lizzie, or NATO, or the pound.
Habbabkuk-Troll,
Why should i need to square my opinion with any other poster here?
Rather arrogant of you to suggest what anyone should think-although i understand arrogance is your metier.
Feel free to call me Jonathan although it aint my name.
Now go and change your yellowing,torn and stained string vest.
Your swollen left pap is hinging oot.
Your nurse will be along shortly..
Remember to put your teeth back in.
Saul Alinsky was old when he wrote Rules for Radicals
http://asanebreakfromtheinsanity.blogspot.com/2012/01/who-hell-is-saul-alinsky.html
CanSpeccy
23 Sep, 2014 – 4:44 pm
“What fucking poor losers these Scotch Nats are.”
————————————–
As you are aware CanSpeccy, as it has been pointed out many times, the people of Scotland are the Scots. You and others here use the term Scotch in a deliberate derogatory sense (almost racist really).
————————————–
You go on: “Now they can’t wait for all the noers to die off. Trouble is, by the time the noers are dead the adolescent yessers will have got older and slightly wiser…”
————————————-
However Mr-know-it-all:
If there is another referendum in, say 10 years, the 16/17 year olds will be in the age group range 25/34 years which voted 59% Yes.
If the referendum is held in, say 20 years, those 16/17 year olds will be in the age group range 35/44 years which voted 53% Yes.
Have a nice day.
The rules
•RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood.
•RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone.
•RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
•RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules.
•RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
•RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones.
•RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news.
•RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.
•RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
•RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.
•RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem.
•RULE 12: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions
Anon1,
You,too,are missing the point,perhaps deliberately.
Many voted Yes who were not SNP or nationalists.
A big change is coming dear boy…
Just ask the shattered remnants of Scottish Labour at their next meeting in that telephone box.
It’s amazing how many conservatives though deriding his tactics, employ them with consistency and vigor.
Habbabkuk,
Show me a wise political analyst and poet with (gasp!) rules and i’ll show you a fool and a fraud.
This seems quite interesting.
__________________________
So the BBC lied to you, Scotland. It is true that the Referendum Bill of 2013 forbids the CHIEF COUNTING OFFICER from recounting votes after they have been declared. But it does not forbid anyone ELSE from recounting the votes and it gives any person in Scotland the power to request and receive the register of the votes. So…you may not be able to revote (this time around) but you can all ASK FOR AND RECEIVE the full tally of votes and see what the outcome really was. And….the votes have not yet been certified. They are certified six weeks from now. So the election is not actually legally ‘over.’ You can as you see ‘bring proceedings for a petition of a judicial review’ for the next five weeks.
You need to “apply to the supervisory jurisdiction of the Court of Session’ to get a judicial review. And at this point we need to ask a Scottish barrister what exactly that means.
But Scotland — your process is not over. They are trying to trick you in saying the process is over. That vote count only stands if it rests for six weeks without a petition for a judicial review. Please share widely. And remember — every single one of you has the right to ask for the register of votes in your council and receive it to review it in a public place.
34Restriction on legal challenge to referendum result.
(1)No court may entertain any proceedings for questioning the number of ballot papers counted or votes cast as certified by a counting officer or by the Chief Counting Officer under section 7(2)(b) or (as the case may be) (4) unless—
(a)the proceedings are brought by way of a petition for judicial review, and
(b)the petition is lodged before the end of the permitted period.
(2)In subsection (1)(b) “the permitted period” means the period of 6 weeks beginning with—
(a)the day on which the officer in question makes the certification as to the number of ballot papers counted and votes cast in the referendum, or
(b)if the officer makes more than one such certification, the day on which the last is made.
(3)In subsection (1), references to a petition for judicial review are references to an application to the supervisory jurisdiction of the Court of Session.
Doug Scorgie
“As you are aware CanSpeccy, as it has been pointed out many times, the people of Scotland are the Scots. You and others here use the term Scotch in a deliberate derogatory sense (almost racist really).”
Let me explain something to you, Dougie.
If the Scotch get so upset and feel victimized by something as harmless as being called ‘Scotch’, then the English will make fun of that by insisting on calling them Scotch.
It’s that simple, Dougie. Pathetic victim complexes and cries of racism don’t go down well with the English. Get over it!
RoS
No one ‘crushed’ independence except the Scots themselves. Centuries of blaming every ill that befalls Scotland on the English, and given a free and fair vote they chose to ratify the Union. Pmsl, as Komodo would say.
BEN
_____________
Sounds to me like the Rules of Engagement.
Anon1,
Oh dear.
You really are missing the point you fool.
There are many dumb English people who use the term Scotch without knowing any better,
So those English who deliberately use the term mockingly towards the Scots are in fact mocking the stupidity of their own people!
Get it now?
Duh!
It is a type of war, RoS. Less bloodshed and fewer pyrrhic victories.
“People over 55 were the only Unionist age group, because they are also the only age group which predominantly does not use social media, buys deadtree newspapers and watches the regular BBC news bulletins. They are also influenced by residual memories of Empire and Second World War (old Tories). They remember the days when banks were viewed as respectable institutions, when the Labour Party helped the poor rather than supported the rich, and when public figures were widely believed not to lie.”
Not sure at all about that over-simplification, Craig. Over 55s are simply anybody born before 1959, the broadest demographic of whom will be represented by those who grew up under Harold ‘never had it so good’ MacMillan and Harold ‘white heat of technology’ Wilson, the beat generation, ageing hippies, the summer of love, the swinging 60s, the post war nationalists, Vietnam,and not least, you, and me, and none less than the Chief himself.
His post at 17h38 reveals that Jivesy fails even the most elementary test of logic.
I dread to think what he’ll be posting later on in the wee small hours…. 🙂
Now that SLAB are disintegrating before our very eyes, and the SNP are enjoying a resurgence in membership, I would surmise that London and Washington will deem Scotland ” an unstable regime” politically, since the last bastion of unionism in Scotland, the labour party, will soon be gone.
They will probably conclude that it would be wise to remove the subs together with their associated nuclear ordnance from Scottish territory asap.
Be interesting to look out for straws in the wind, methinks……………………..
“Independence had a majority in every age group except the over 55s. “
I used these age demographics from the 2011 Scottish census.
I totalled the percentage of voters 16 to 55* then the did the same for 56 and upwards**
The results were :
16 to 55 age group = 54.45% of total population
55 + older = 28.22% of total population
Assuming the 2014 demographics are roughly similar, nearly two thirds of the referendum electorate were under 56. So unless there were some bizarre statistical anomalies hidden in the overall totals, this means that the over 55s must have voted almost unanimously, in favour of NO.
Hmmmm.
Here’s another strange statistic. In the The Scottish Parliament Elections of 2011, 14.1 % of the Scottish electorate applied for postal ballot forms. These included a significant number of ex-pats. In the referendum, ex-pats were not allowed to vote, yet 18.6%, of the electorate applied for postal ballot forms. To spell that out, 32% more postal ballots sent out when one might reasonably have expected a need for less.
Hmmmmmm.
*The total for 15 to 19 age group was 6.25% and we are interested in 16 to 19 so I reduced it by one fifth to 5%.
**The total for 55 to 59 age group was 6.25% and we are interested in 56 to 59 so I reduced it by one fifth to 5%, and added the 1.25 % to the 16 – 55 total.
You can always hire half the afflicted to kill the other half. Just give them medical care for their children. An obscene parallel to Scot NO voters.
“The 43, all barred by Israeli law from identifying themselves publicly, say they avoided serving during Israel’s latest attack on Gaza, fearing what would be permitted. But their concerns relate to more than the legality of military attacks.
In a telling admission, one reservist said he first questioned his role after watching The Lives of Others, a film depicting life under the Stasi, East Germany’s much-feared secret police. The Stasi are estimated to have collected files on five million East Germans before the Berlin Wall fell.
According to the refuseniks, much Israeli intelligence gathering targets “innocent people”. The information is used “for political persecution”, “recruiting collaborators” and “driving parts of Palestinian society against itself”.
The surveillance powers of 8200 extend far beyond security measures. They seek out the private weaknesses of Palestinians – their sex lives, monetary troubles and illnesses – to force them into conspiring in their own oppression.
“If you required urgent medical care in Israel, the West Bank or abroad, we looked for you,” admits one.
An illustration of the desperate choices facing Palestinians was voiced by a mother of seven in Gaza last week. She told AP news agency that she and her husband were recruited as spies in return for medical treament in Israel for one of their children. Her husband was killed by Hamas as a collaborator in 2012.”
http://www.counterpunch.org/
No one ‘crushed’ independence except the Scots themselves. Centuries of blaming every ill that befalls Scotland on the English, and given a free and fair vote they chose to ratify the Union. Pmsl, as Komodo would say.
____________________________________
Anon1
I think you’ll find that I’m not blaming anyone outside Scotland, regarding YES losing the Scottish independence referendum, I was merely stating that Old Drippy Drawers Queen Lizzie, was pleased at the outcome.
I have no grievance with the good folk of England, and neither do many of my countrymen, their government however is a different matter, and although I and many others accept NO won the referendum, it doesn’t mean to say, that we give up trying, after all circumstances constantly change.
Habbabkuk,
You don’t like it up ye Habby do ya?..:.)
Dinner has been served.
Jivesy
“Habbabkuk-Troll,
Why should i need to square my opinion with any other poster here?”
__________________
Well, no absolute need of course, but I thought it might possibly be in the rule book of the Egregiousness of Excellences. The breaking of which might cause you to be ejected from said body AND get a stinging rejoinder from Mr Scorgie. You wouldn’t want that, would you?
” If there is another referendum in, say 10 years, the 16/17 year olds will be in the age group range 25/34 years which voted 59% Yes.
If the referendum is held in, say 20 years, those 16/17 year olds will be in the age group range 35/44 years which voted 53% Yes. ”
Cunningly avoiding any mention of the 18-24 year olds of whom only 48% voted yes.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/scotland-referendum-who-voted-yes-4286743
Then of course this is all based on one of those weighted YouGov type polls which we’ve been told can’t be trusted.
Another explanation is of course that age not only brings wisdom but experience that says no politician ever has delivered on their election pledges, so why should they believe Salmond’s promises?