I have no sympathy at all for anybody who voted No on the grounds of the pledges by Brown, Miliband, Cameron and Clegg about constitutional change, and is now whingeing about the blatant dishonour of those pledges. I cannot understand how anybody could be so stupid as to have believed them, and yet have a brain capable of sparking respiration.
Labour is interested in losing no influence of Scottish Labour MPs on any UK or English matters. It wants greater powers to English metropolitan councils which are controlled by Labour – because that will give Labour careerists more jobs and access to contracts. Those are Labours “constitutional reform” goals. The Conservatives “constitutional reform” goals are to keep Scotland’s tax on oil revenues and tax on whisky coming to Westminster, while loading greater responsibilities but no more money on the Scottish parliament, and stopping Scottish MPs voting on English matters thus guaranteeing conservative apparatchiks continued jobs and access to contracts.
Both Tories and Labour want to keep the appalling corrupt and undemocratic House of Lords for its jobs for apparatchiks, access to contracts etc.
Nobody cares what the Lib Dems think anyway.
I ask again – what did you expect?
This is the collective wisdom of Andy Myles and myself, over an excellent mackerel breakfast at Nom De Plume.
Stop confusing unrelated issues John Goss. I don’t care what any oligarch’s politics and morals, or their nationality past or present, I was giving examples of the few who can afford to buy luxury motor cars. BAE and the Rolls-Royce brand is toxic thanks to the murky goings-on in its factories and facilites in Scotland which have long been and remain hubs for sectarianism and nests of vile bigots. The larger the workplace in Scotland the greater the problem, but RR is notoriously bad and BAE buys off MPs who stiff constituents who raise the issue or complain to them. Talk to Irene (Lady) Adams about it, I’m sure she’ll spill the beans.
Hey, my condolences. I knew Britain was a pathetic little has-been shithole, but I haven’t been there for a few years because, you know, Who wants to go to a chicken-shit police state where you have to tell them your passwords at the airport like they think they’re the Soviets or something, and Big Brother cameras in every street and toilet, but, Wow, Nazi oiks beating up dissenters including cute girls, I never expected that. It’s like Ukraine, except the Ukies wait till their children hit puberty to break them in with the sex trafficking.
You guys better get the fuck out of there toot sweet. Coulda told ya, if you’re going with the US satellites, it means kiss your human rights goodbye. Like here comes EU Commissioner Krel De Gucht, shitcanning UN Charter Article 1 clause 2 along with Article 1 clause 1 of the CESCR and ICCPR – “A Europe driven by self-determination of peoples … is ungovernable,”
So oh well, fuck core human rights, you’re in Europe. But still. What did that drunk maniac Churchill say, an iron curtain will come down, or something like that? Who knew it was coming down again, this time on you.
All this crapola on ISIS, ISIL or IS or whatever the hell they are (not Muslims). I have a feeling they are a diversion fro AQ. While our chappies are busy feeding us fear-based steel-cut oatmeal to keep us regular, AQ is off the shit-stick for the duration of Western obsession with beheaders worse than their forbears. Rope-a-dope makes us stung by the bees while we’re busy with the butterfly net.
Anyway the MI complex needed sales for their ordnance inventories which have been swelling of late. We should accommodate them swiftly for the sake of jobs in the sector so Obama can have his ‘jobs’ stats for his all-important legacy.
“Stop confusing unrelated issues John Goss”
Brush up on your social skills. Just an FYI.
Leslie
arhh blerr unfurr english blahh blahh – this is debate?
John
Sadly, your ID is about as safe as an open roller shutter door on a warehouse to the IT mob.
Hi Craig, my greetings to the 45% of brave scottish. A great oportunity to bring outstanding changes not just to Scotland but to the world was at grasp, but it has not been the end of it. Just keep it simmering until it gets to boiling point again.
Some food for thought: do the YES voters intend to keep their money and invest their savings in finantial institutions that carried out fear policies by threatening to withdraw main office from an Independent Scotland? If you want to go through a new referendum in 5 years time than it could be wise to get ready for the same fear tatics again. In case there are not presently finantial institutions that can be trusted than found new ones, maybe a system of savings coops where these 45% of Yes voters could trust their money will be used for the welfare of the people. Does it sounds naive?
From a brazilian nut
Tony M
I don’t know who you are but you wrote and I quote:
“If you are abroad, wherever, whether you are an Arab sheik or a Russian oligarch, or a foreign government buying fighter planes, an airline buying aero engines, Rolls-Royce, boycott them, bankrupt the fuckers, you’re feeding and funding these sectarian evils.”
I responded with a link to a Russian oligarch living abroad (France), funded by foreign governments with aero engines and other weapons to support fascist regimes and coup d’etats and you criticise me for confusing unrelated issues. When I was on the shop floor the unions largely opposed fascism and I have long been a campaigner against discrimination and for peace. Perhaps you would like to explain what you mean about confusing unrelated issues because I cannot work out where you are coming from.
I still don’t see how what you wrote is relevant, you might be right, who knows, I’ve written enough here deploring the actions of oligarchs from the former USSR and their allegiances and actions, their disturbing and powerful influence, so your misunderstanding is intentional. Is this guy you mention funding Loyalist gangs attacking from all sides of George Square, Glasgow in an organised para-military operation to clear some people having a sing-song there, with it seems the nod from the fine officers of the lodge –sorry fine officers of the law?
Please do stop reliving the Cold War, John. I wasn’t arguing about the content of your post as a standalone comment, and do find it interesting, nor with your right to post it or anything else. The only connection between your post and mine is my use of the word ‘oligarch’, why address the post to me, purely on those obscure grounds. Your more recent posts differ qualitatively from many previous comments, the totalitarian Communist dogma and defensiveness, grows more shrill and increasingly irrelevant, the Soviet Union I must report has passed over.
A song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWBrWhrKchQ
The Cold War never ended, it just went into a deeper freeze. The West has always kept a wary eye on the Bear, even when Gorby was taking it in the ass. Yeltsin was a humorous break from serious matters, but they still kept a vigilant eye. Dr. Strangelove is a composite just like Gen Jack Ripper, but these paranoiacs still exist on some level of command and control.
‘We were always at war in Eurasia”
I didn’t know Poroshenko was a State Dept Mole.
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06KIEV1706_a.html
Too late to ask Gordon McMaster about it, and I doubt his replacement Douglas Alexander will ever fill his place.
Come on lads and lassies, let’s get back on topic .. holding Westminster’s feet to fire in the words of the Chief!
Here’s a list of the currently reserved matters (i.e. those that remain the responsibility of Westminster under the current devolution settlement):
the constitution
foreign affairs
defence
international development
the Civil Service
financial and economic matters
immigration and nationality
misuse of drugs
trade and industry
aspects of energy regulation (eg electricity, coal, oil and gas and nuclear energy)
aspects of transport (eg regulation of air services, rail and international shipping)
employment
social security
abortion, genetics, surrogacy, medicines
broadcasting
equal opportunities
https://www.gov.uk/devolution-settlement-scotland
Which one of those policy areas would you be prepared to entrust to Cameron, Farage, Clegg or Miliband?
Fred said: Fuck off you nasty old hag.
and
Which part of fuck off and die didn’t you understand?
I very much disagree with just about everything Mary posts, and to call her politics bonkers is probably too kind, but you should be ashamed of making such nasty comments, Fred. There’s no need for it.
glad you had a chat with my old friend Andy Myles. I am hoping that the Yes movement now becomes a wider movement for democratic accountability. One of the real objects should be to create an outlet that can compete with the traditional media in their own space. The BBC has shot itself in both feet while simultaneously having both feet in the mouth. 1.6 million people is a very healthy potential audience.
Ha! Ангрысоба/Angry Soba
That was a clever but unsubtle way of repeating some insults. Which bit of my ‘bonkers’ politics don’t you like?
Pro freedom for the Palestinians
Pro truth and justice
Anti illegal offensive wars and killing
Anti corruption in our national and local government
……
??
I could go on.
The new collective word for the tinies in Westminster is
Miliclegeron.
~~~~
Amazing to have it confirmed that following a six week Summer break, they then troll around doing nothing for another month. So very part time. How do they live with themselves?
Summer 22 July 2014 – 1 September 2014
Conference 12 September 2014 – 13 October 2014
but wait.
Marcial Boo, chief executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (Ipsa), said MPs did an important job and should not be paid a “miserly amount”. Their pay will go up from £67,000 to £74,000 under Ipsa’s plan
BBC News – MPs’ pay rise of 9% ‘should go ahead’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29098334
Anti-Israel motions in the mix for Labour Party conference
Jewish News – Sep 18, 2014
Labour’s leadership are fighting to prevent any motion that goes against party policy on Israel from being debated at next week’s conference, according to party sources. The conference steering committee ruled on Tuesday that a number of motions on the …
Rough ride expected by friends of Israel
Jewish Chronicle – Sep 18, 2014
The party conference season gets under way in Manchester this weekend with Labour supporters the first to gather. While there is anticipation in Jewish and pro-Israel political circles that the fringe scene will be dominated by the repercussions of the Gaza …
Miliband set for frosty reception post-Gaza
Jewish Chronicle – Sep 18, 2014
When he addressed the Labour Friends of Israel annual lunch on June 17, the warmth of his reception reflected his pledge to remain a “friend of Israel”, but also his moving description of “the deeply personal journey” he had made to the Jewish state over … When Miliband steps onto the stage at LFI’s conference reception, he will be bracing himself for a chillier welcome than he received in June – an indication, perhaps, of the lengthening odds on Downing Street having its first Jewish occupant since Benjamin …
Mary, I can assure you that I did not quote those posts to insult you.
And by bonkers I mean the kind of far-left, conspiratorial, “anti-Zionist”, terminally malcontented miserablism that passes for “analysis” around these cheerful parts.
A confession by a new ( think ) commenter…Tank D. Of Guilt for voting No…Anon 1 Right in there
Tank dude…they shafted us all..You aint alone… many people hereaboots are saying the same thing….some saying right after voting…
it has cost us heartbreak and tears….on our knees on Friday…BUT we’re BACK
P.S We Know who the Bastard is….that Ripped a Scotland flag off the young girl sitting on the ground.
780,000 postal votes. 21% of the vote. Postal votes (for anyone) were introduced as an electoral manipulation tool by blue labour. Supposedly 2 to 1 in favour of No. Take that fraud out and the result shifts to 52.5% vs 47.5% – much closer and open to the more traditional methods of election rigging, ie ballot box stuff, miscounting, votes in wrong piles as described above. This idea is supported by the fact that the NO voting regions had higher turnouts than the YES regions. the 73% of over 65s voting NO also looks very strange.
Re the broken promises. I’ve heard two labour party activists this morning use the phrase ‘drawn up on the back of a fag packet’ about plans for new powers and why it’s all going to take time. So they’ve got the message out on their blackberries so everyone is in line, and then the beeb saying there will be uproar in scotland if these new powers don’t happen – like the english MPs give a feck about what the scottish people say. ‘back of fag packet’ just mentioned again – 3 different people in 40 minutes.
Angry Soba The only bit you got right is Anti Zionist.
Not far left, not far anything. Not miserable in fact generally cheerful in spite of the state the country is in (you should come and see) and defo not conspiratorial.
TTFN
Darling is the clown he always was. Has he got an enforcer?
‘Better Together leader Alistair Darling has insisted a pledge to devolve more powers to Scotland made before the independence referendum will be acted upon within the timetable.
The former chancellor said in a recorded interview that any of the leaders of the three main Westminster parties who rowed back on the devolution timetable would “pay a heavy price”.
Speaking to the BBC, he said: “The agreement reached by the three parties, as far as I’m concerned, is non-negotiable.
“It was promised, it’s got to be delivered, and anyone who welshes on that will pay a very heavy price for years to come.
/..
http://news.sky.com/story/1339484/scotland-devolution-pledge-non-negotiable
I don’t get why people seem to accept that the Lords of the manor are the 3 ‘main’ party leaders. They can patch something together on the back of an envelope without consulting any of the other 65 million people in the country – and everyone buys into them doing that. That becomes a promise that their parties (who weren’t consulted) and the whole country (which didn’t have a say either) must allegedly be held to and keep. It turned what looked like a democratic process of Scottish residents all voting into a complete sham.
I suppose the three of them can just sit down together and decide the next war as well. And is everyone going to agree we’re all bound by that?
Chris,
‘780,000 postal votes. 21% of the vote. Postal votes (for anyone) were introduced as an electoral manipulation tool by blue labour. Supposedly 2 to 1 in favour of No. Take that fraud out and the result shifts to 52.5% vs 47.5% – much closer and open to the more traditional methods of election rigging, ie ballot box stuff, miscounting, votes in wrong piles as described above. This idea is supported by the fact that the NO voting regions had higher turnouts than the YES regions. the 73% of over 65s voting NO also looks very strange.’
Vert interesting
I hope we can, around here, not fall into young-old argument in discussion of the referendum result, it’s ageist, divisive and has no factual basis, there is not any way such an analysis can be made at this stage by anyone not possessing all the ballot papers and matching each to names and addresses and then to dates of birth (we know it’s not a secret ballot), this claim is from a tiny sample poll by some bored droid or spin doctor making it up as they go along, sheer invented nonsense and seems quickly to have been accepted as fact, the source of which ‘fact’ is Blair’s mate Lord Ashcroft’s jerrymandering outfit. I dislike too this ’45’ nonsense, again divisive the ’55’ are not some out-group, and it has a Jacobite taint, which is ok, gripping stuff, but history, backwards looking, and meaningless to most people even this soon after the referendum, it’s braveheart romanticism that will strew the path to independence with new hazards and obstacles, new sticks to beat us, and too it accepts the deeply suspect figures for the outcome as having some basis in fact.
“Mary, I can assure you that I did not quote those posts to insult you.”
Well that’s what it looked like to me as well.
Mary knows why I had a go at her, she was having a go at me first.
Yours was just an unprovoked attack, what has she done to you? What gives you the right to judge her? She has as much right to post as anybody else and if you don’t like her posts then may I suggest you just don’t read them.
As Craig has pointed out in relating his Blackburn experiences, electoral machinery is largely in local government hands. Further the SNP has extensive power in Scottish local government and scrutineers throughout the process last Thursday. This is not to say that a bit of monkeying around is impossible. But the SNP has made no official complaint of large scale rigging. And as far as I can see no large scale rigging could have taken place without the SNP being complicit.
Saying that people were misled by promises is failure to accept the result. Its people as puppets, can’t thing for themselves, didn’t have other reasons to vote no stuff. I could paraphrase Salmond and say I’m not surprised that he’s doing that… only surprised that he’s called foul so quickly. But actually, I didn’t – I expected a lot better from him.
More devolution should be on the table – but on it’s own merits – not on the basis of some electioneering promises the 3 ‘main’ party leaders made. Or any timetable they came up with. They didn’t have any authority to decide such things. And its a stinking precedent that everyone buys into them being the Kings of the country like that.
The whole thing… the 3 noddies making promises… people buying into it… and others using it to cry foul against the result. All of it makes a mockery of the vote. Salmond should respect the vote and the 3 noddies should be deselected for exhibiting no democratic sense or values and creating a post-vote farce.