Alex Salmond is right to move to block attempts by Labour councils to use the new voter registrations for the referendum to catch people for twenty five year old Poll Tax default. The truth is the Labour Party is motivated not by a desire to collect the tax, but by an intention to chase the newly enfranchised back off the voters register. The Poll Tax is universally acknowledged as unjustifiably inequitable and punitive on the poor – that is why it was abolished. The very idea of digging out these ancient debts is disgusting.
The Guardian report by Labour Party hack Severin Carrell states that
David O’Neill, president of the Scottish councils’ umbrella organisation, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (Cosla), was furious, branding it “the oddest decision ever to come out of the Scottish government”.
Carrell fais to mention that O’Neill is a senior Labour Party politician. The referendum showed Labour and Tory to be united in Scotland. Seeing the Labour Party now determined to pursue poor people for Thatcher’s tax should drive home the lesson.
The Scottish National Party at Westminster voted unanimously against the current bombing of Iraq – which will cost the money to be saved by freezing desperately needed benefits for a year. Alex Salmond is not perfect, but again and again he shows himself the most senior politician in Britain who has some genuine beliefs founded in humanity, and acts upon them.
“I was prepared to accept the Scottish referendum vote but this link (which was posted by A Node and Oddie) has made me rethink,”
Isn’t that what you said on the 19th Sep. at 11:17am?
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/09/31381/#comment-480956
Councils chase debts; they’d probably tell you they have an obligation under the LGA to do so. Mine chased me for £8 some years ago, sending out three or four letters which must’ve cost more than the debt was worth but that’s their mentality. It’s simply bloody mindedness and not some conspiracy to drive people off the electoral roll which would make it more difficult to collect tax from them in the future.
The total owed to local councils in Scotland is said to be £435 million and perhaps if Holyrood would release their grip on local government and end the seven year freeze on council tax (which according to Unison has cost 35,000 jobs) councils wouldn’t be quite so desperate.
John, I was in Scotland for the referendum and voted managing to register just in time.From the get go,it was odd.They asked for no ID when I walked into the church hall.For something that was endangering the Union,you would think that the No side would want to make sure that every one of their votes counted.There wasn’t even a No campaigner at the gate,but there was from the Yes side, giving out armbands and wee badges.He said voting( ~ 08:30) had been brisk and the people walking in and out had given him a wink,nod or the thumbs up.Just before voting closed,I took another walk past and had a chat.The same Yes guy was still there and very confident.Nobody from No, and a single policewoman.
The most odd and suspicious thing about the No win ,is there were no celebrations anywhere with the exception of their HQ when it became obvious that Yes would lose.However, there were flags and people all over the place waiting in anticipation of the Yes which never came.I headed North from Fife on the 20th, and we took the boat across to Stornoway from Ullapool.The disbelief there was total.On the night of the 18th, they said the western Isles and Orkney and Shetland would not be counted until the morning because of bad weather.All three came in not long after Clackmannanshire.What that did was create an arc that separated Scotland from its oil,and I believe that had the fix not worked in the rest of Scotland however it was done,there would’ve been moves to separate the Islands from an iScotland.
There was a woman(mother of a neighbour) who has been a vote counter for 30 years who was told a few days before the referendum that her services were not required.There were all the ballot papers with nothing on the back to identify them.The Russian delegation said that the voting system was open to massive fraud.Ballot boxes were transported in private cars.Seals weren’t checked.There’s a document that says how the ballot papers were to be treated and how the count was to be conducted.They were not followed.Fraud could’ve worked both ways,but there was no concern shown by the No side.
Complaints are being lodged,but its all too late.Sir Ian Wood ,the man who said that north sea oil had 10 years has just been awarded the Fracking rights to Scotland, oh and BTW, there is now 120 years worth of oil.
Mr Goss
“..then anybody who reads your essays would believe that people below £10,000 per annum do not pay tax.”
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I do hope that the above wasn’t another of your “indigenous inhabitants of the Falklands” moments! 🙂
Perhaps you’re a stranger to the UK tax system, but are the first £10.000 of earnings not exempt from income tax?
Why are the Russians more informed on this than the SNP?
“Come back Sofia. You do this stuff so well.”
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Worry not, Mr Goss, he’s still around and might come to your assistance if you ask him nicely enough.
Well done Fred @10:25am. John Goss caught bullshitting again!
The opening bit of Tony M’s post is interesting:
“Having never paid a penny in poll-tax, I must be one of the miscreants, but as a mature student through the entire life of the poll-tax, was only due to pay 20% of it, and never did…”
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1/. It takes up a point often forgotten when people bleat on about the iniquity of the Poll Tax, namely that the system incorporated a considerable number of discounts and rebates on particular for low-income groups and people on a variety of other state benefits.
2/. On your personal case (assuming it is not mere bragadoccio, of course): despite you having been one of the beneficiaries of such a rebate, you appear rather proud that you managed to avoid paying even one fifth of the amount normally due.
Now there are two consequences of that. Firstly, you were happy to let other people pay for the local services I assume you availed yourself of; secondly, you contributed to any cuts in services which the local authority may have had to impose owing to such reduction of revenue.
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I’ll leave it to the casual reader to judge whether people like you have any status when you comment – as you seem to do rather often – on the immorality of govt action and, for that matter, the immorality of corporations seeking to minimise the amount of tax they are supposed to pay.
The word “hypocrisy” springs to mind, does it not? 🙂
“The most odd and suspicious thing about the No win ,is there were no celebrations anywhere with the exception of their HQ when it became obvious that Yes would lose.”
I don’t know how many times this has been explained to you. There is nothing to get excited about voting No and maintaining the status quo. You all got swept away with the hype surrounding the Yes campaign, which was offering something new and radical. It was predicted by me, among others, that the majority of voters would quietly go out and vote No, then go home again, and that would be the first and last you heard of them. No flags, no social media, no carnival atmosphere, no celebrations, just a decision based on the evidence that Scotland is better off in the Union.
DoNNyDarKo 4 Oct, 2014 – 10:44 am
It is strange there were no exit polls. They are always an indication of how the vote really went. On such an important issue you would have thought there would have been.
Anon1 and Fred, you should have researched futher. Get your facts right before wallowing in your undeserved ego-trips. While I made that comment about the irregularities on measured opinion I realised it would not have affected the vote.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/09/31381/#comment-480887
These irregularities should still have been investigated. But the big one appears to be why the postal ballot boxes went to England.
Noddy, those who are paid a miserable £10,000 or less still have to pay VAT out of that pittance. Shake your head lad and rattle that bell on your cap. It might wake you up.
A Lego movie about why Paddy’s not at work today. Brilliant. Made me laugh anyway. It’s al-LEGO-rical Noddy for why Palestinians have no work. Get it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA5RGI3zn20
What surprises me about this affair was hearing that COSLA is still going, I think it exists still only in the imagination of a few Red Tory Labour councillors, I was sure many councils has long ago officially distanced themselves from it, it doesn’t any more and hasn’t for a long time represented all councils, I thought it died with the regional councils in 1996. There certainly hadn’t been a peep out of them for more than a decade, I suppose the junkets must have carried on; most must have assumed it had been disbanded, its leading Labour low-lifes now in the Scottish Parliament or aspiring to become MSPs.
I can say with 100% certainty my conventional (not postal) ballot paper had nothing whatsoever printed on the back, in a council area where others insist they all did and must have had. It did have a curious little diamond shaped mark of about 2 sq centimeters in area, on the front, consisting of speckled grey dots.
As all poll tax defaulters would have to be at least forty years of age or more, the number re-entering the voters roll who could thus be traced is very low, around 150,000, and they certainly haven’t been otherwise invisible, this smacks of vindictiveness on the part of corruption riddled Red Tory councils, mired in PFI kickback scandals and other financial trouble of their own making.
Introduction of Poll Tax in Scotland only, a year before its introduction, then collapse in the rest of the country, breached the 1707 Act of Union, wherein taxation in different countries and parts of the UK, was required to be the same. A long overdue rating re-evaluation was what was required, but this would of course have lead to owners of larger properties, the values of which had hugely increased by a property price bubble, the Lawson Boom, having to pay more, the poll tax was both an attack on the poorest in society and a massive evasion of due taxes by the relatively well-off.
Alex Salmond has put the exercise of democracy before and above party politics and grubby Thatcher-era tax cuts for the richest in society.
Many of the 150,000 new voters wouldn’t have been eligible for poll tax, many of them wouldn’t even have been born when it was operative.
Mr Goss complains
“H is forever pulling up commenters on trivial typos”
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Well, that’s yet another lie from that son of Pinocchio Mr Goss, although a minor and harmless one.
I’m actually rather tolerant about typos and usually only refer to them when they are funny. I tend to reserve my reproofs for egregious errors of grammar or oethography (example “it’s” rather than “its”) but always, of course, with a view to being helpful to those in need.
for example, “oethography” was a typo which I wouldn’t deign to comment on 🙂
Mr Goss
“Noddy, those who are paid a miserable £10,000 or less still have to pay VAT out of that pittance.”
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Yes, Mr Goss – that’s why I wrote “those who actually pay tax (income tax, since everyone pays VAT to some extent or other)” in my post yesterday at 20h55.
You really like digging yourself in deeper, don’t you. Are you a mole of the red variety? Or are your reading skills even worse than mine…? 🙂
Talking of taxes …
Drivers in the UK are no longer required to prove that we’ve paid our road tax by displaying a ‘tax disc’ on our windscreens. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but when you think about it, it signals another landmark in our relationship with surveillance. They’re telling us …
(1) Their surveillance system is so effective that we cannot use the roads without being identified and investigated.
(2) Surveillance is replacing paperwork. Surveillance is a routine and necessary part of our relationship with the state.
(3) You ARE being watched.
I think Tony reckons that by not paying poll tax he was preventing Fatcher roasting babies over a fire, or something.
Anon1: You obviously were not up North before the referendum.It was emotional on all sides.
The No side were mute the next day talking about reconciliation.A bit rich when it was coming from the likes of Lamont & Darling who’d been comparing Salmond to Hitler.Why our very own crofting Fred was doing the same whilst neglecting his animals.
I think when the collapse of the economy can no longer be hidden, old tax discs will take the place of currency, or means of exchange. I’m reminded of the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, or one of the sequels, in which leaves were used as currency, resulting in policies of deforestation to curb inflation.
Emotional yes, but far less need for celebrations on the No side. What are you suggesting anyway, Donny? That the vote must have been rigged because you didn’t see much celebration from the No camp?
“Why our very own crofting Fred was doing the same whilst neglecting his animals.”
Now look here you little shit for brained retard why don’t you just fuck off and die.
People like you are a waste of air that decent people could be breathing.
You lost, you are a loser, a pathetic little shit for brained loser get over it.
” Many of the 150,000 new voters wouldn’t have been eligible for poll tax, many of them wouldn’t even have been born when it was operative. ”
A lot more would’ve been under 18 and not liable either.
The idea of this being a plot by unionist councils to drive nationalist voters off the register as implied is looking increasingly fragile.
Anon1
“I think Tony reckons that by not paying poll tax he was preventing Fatcher roasting babies over a fire, or something.”
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That could be it, Anon1.
Or perhaps he would rationalise his action by saying he was striking a blow for freedom and democracy.
Or perhaps this recipient of govt funds to enable him to do his adult education course (and beneficiary of a 80% rebate) still felt hard done by.
Or, finally, he might just be a Del boy.
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You’ve noticed his silence after the stinging rebukes delivered?
Yes definitely emotional.
” old tax discs will take the place of currency, ”
Strangely enough a local pub is offering a cup of coffee for a tax disc.
Node
“Drivers in the UK are no longer required to prove that we’ve paid our road tax by displaying a ‘tax disc’ on our windscreens. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but when you think about it, it signals another landmark in our relationship with surveillance.”
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Well, that’s what we all get because a (perhaps considerable) number of Del Boy cunts think they can avoid paying lawfully constituted taxes and imposts.
Perhaps you should reserve your fretful indignation for the Del Boys cunts?
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Personally, I’m particularly in favour of numberplate recognition technology. You’ve got to do what it takes to beat the law-breaking fraternity of car thieves, road tax and road insurance dodgers, drug dealers, handlers of stolen goods and terrorists of various stripes!
An even more promising development is the interest which has re-awakened regarding the introduction of identity cards, the usefulness of which is manifest to all and beyond dispute.
Such an introduction should of course go hand in hand with the obligation for citizens to register (ie, give their address) in the administrative unit where they live. In some Continental countries this registration is with the police, in others with the local authority (eg, the commune). There is no honest reason why any honest person should object as such an obligation is there on the first place to protect him or her.
Habbabkuk,
“An even more promising development is the interest which has re-awakened regarding the introduction of identity cards, the usefulness of which is manifest to all and beyond dispute.”
Nope.IF so they would’ve been introduced years ago.The fact they are such a political hot potato indicates there is much opposition to them and the benefit to all is much in dispute.
Do try and introduce some balance and perspective Habbabkuk,the shrill statist propaganda you megaphone is lamentably out of kilter with the reality.
My goodness Freddie ,you are beginning to sound like a thug you accused Salmond of being.Tut Tut !
What I was saying Anon is that the guidelines for the referendum were not followed and adhered to.It unfortunately leads to all kinds of speculation except from our crofting friend up there in the wilds.