I spoke to a really uplifting Perth for Independence meeting yesterday – over 300 people, more than attended Cameron’s “Rally to Save the Union” in the same city during the campaign. There is no sense of defeat at all in the Yes campaign and it retains its spine-tingling energy intact.
Many interesting contributions including – a continuing feature of this campaign – several first time speakers, and more female than male. In my own talk I said that anyone who voted No because they believed “The Vow” was stupid beyond belief. Scotland will never be given by Westminster its revenues from oil and whisky, and any devolution settlement based on Scotland keeping and spending its own taxation but excluding taxation from oil and whisky, would undoubtedly be arranged by Westminster to result in a net cut in public spending in Scotland.
I have in any case not the slightest interest in any arrangement which does not give Scotland control of its own foreign and defence policies, and leaves us still as participants in continual aggressive war, torture and extraordinary rendition.
It remains my view that Scotland’s innate dislike of the astonishing wealth gap of British society, the rise of UKIP and the shift to the right of the Westminster parties, the danger of leaving the EU and European Convention on Human Rights (and thus expulsion from the Council of Europe), all contribute to a political, cultural and social divergence which make independence inevitable. It is coming in a much shorter timescale than people realise.
Leaving aside the collective betrayal of Wastemonster politicians and their spurious Vow, how about the actual manner in which the balloting was conducted?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_8PnwQJhlU
We needed a neutral international body to have overseen the running of the referendum, not the toothless Electoral Commission which is answerable to a parliament that has no intention of letting go of its controlling powers đ
This left/right business is crap. The real question is top-down/bottom-up, and it crosscuts the synthetic distinctions of divide-and-rule politics. Stalin/Trotsky on the left, Nixon/Wallace on the right, BrettonWoods/Dumbarton Oaks in the world.
“This left/right business is crap. The real question is top-down/bottom-up, and it crosscuts the synthetic distinctions of divide-and-rule politics. Stalin/Trotsky on the left, Nixon/Wallace on the right, BrettonWoods/Dumbarton Oaks in the world”
Left/Right/up/down is just the system gaming the people. What’s your alternative?
Onward, ever onward with the silly talk, Craig. By shackling the Yes campaign to a failed left wing model, you doom it. You are politically inept. You would be better off arguing for a genetic predisposition amongst the Scots for a love of tartan as much as a socialist tendency. All this is daft.
How is it possible that the Scots have been so badly led by the current generation? It is possible because ordinary Scots are ordinary people, getting on with real lives. Being ‘independent’ in an age of interdependence misses the point. They came out in vast numbers to say No. The cul de sac awaits the Yes campaign. Unable to accept defeat the internecine wars await. The SNP will become an uncomfortable place to be for many. Bring on disillusion.
Orwell was wrong…
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/10/20141018_orwell.jpg
The British pedo toffs gained a provisional lease on life with a totalitarian propaganda blitz. But then they pissed away their deftly-faked legitimacy by attacking the sole basis of responsible sovereignty, the law of human rights. So under the supreme law of self-determination of peoples, it’s time for another referendum. Right now, if that’s what the Scottish people want. That is why Savile’s plaything Gutter should fuck off.
Shut up, respect the democratic choice made by the people of Scotland, and put your efforts into turning a united Britain into a fair and decent country we can be proud of.
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Gutter.
You miss the point, the UK isn’t an equal society, independence would’ve shook things up at Westminster, for without North Sea resources, I very much doubt Cameron and Co would be in the mist of a second war, in Iraq, with a war, pending in Syria just around the corner.
Now lets see has anything changed, for the better in the UK since a no vote prevailed? if I recall both Miliband and Cameron have intimated, that billions of pounds will need to be cut from the public purse to ease the debt, yet its costing ÂŁ3 million quid a day to fight ISL.
Independence wouldn’t have been a panacea, and Scotland wouldn’t have suddenly become a Utopian society, but it would’ve given Scots the power to change things, hopefully for the better.
Yes, no prevailed, and for now we must abide by the democratic result, but that doesn’t mean you give up, a no vote of course is only moving the chairs around, on the deck of the Titanic, real change requires real powers, and independence is the key.
What has happened in Scotland is that the The Left (note capital letters) has (thank fuck) lost control of leftism. It’s not ‘The Left’ anymore. It’s just the left. Political radicalism is no longer a small Jules Verne island where curious things happen. It’s the evolving geography of this moment. Our moment.
Left is the new centre.
“Left is the new centre.”
Gerrymandered by conservatives by playing the game better. Thatcher/Reagan moved the needle right so the even the center seems extreme, but that was 3 decades ago. Why is the Left unable to return the favor?
We are out of excuses.
Humor from the Left..oldie but a goodie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Q-sRdV7SY&list=PLF9710C67D9E59D83&index=3
Gutter: Had the campaign been an even playing field and the No side had adhered to the rules, and there were no last minute pledges that won’t materialise which were against the rules, I might have been inclined to agree with you.My mother voted by post only to find out they’d changed their offer afterwards… she wasn’t alone.Too much jiggery pokery went on.
The No’s were so mouthy beforehand,and then this humility in victory just didnt wash..
It’s the people who count the votes that make the difference.
Western Isles with a an SNP MP and as nationalistic a place as I ahve ever been said no ?
Gies a break.
Scotland has accepted it, and they will work toward a new referendum. The desire for self determination isn’t disappearing. As Craig has said ,it is as strong as ever.
The Vow breaking will only strengthen the nationalists.
Republicofscotland
“The vow promised new powers but, not what theyâd be, Holyrood know fine well that Westminster will fall way short of their and the people of Scotlandâs expectations as which powers will be devolved.
The beauty of this position is that Holyrood are in a win, win situation, if Westminster deliver significant new powers then thatâs a win, if not then thatâs also a win. No new significant powers hopefully will trigger, a kind of political civil unrest in Scotland, that may well lead to another referendum.”
________________
The above represents some progress, in that you now admit that nothing was said in the context of ‘The Vow” that could reasonably have led Scottish people to believe that they would have full control of future oil and whisky revenues.
But it is nevertheless still flawed, in that this nonsensical “win-win” theory of yours is based on assumptions as to what Westminster will offer (your assumption is very little) and what the Scottish people expected when they took note of The Vow (your assumption is a lot). Now you cannot back up either assumption, at least not at present.
I offer a different win-win theory for consideration: that Westminster’s offer is generous enough to make happy the broad mass of the Scottish people as opposed to the extremist fringe as represented by people like yourself and several others on here.
Finally, I find it strange that someone who claims to have the best interests of the Scottish people at heart should appear to be wishing “political civil unrest” on that country
Here you go Gutter, your wonderful Westminster.
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One of David Cameronâs top ministers has sparked fury after praising 80,000 job losses âgoodâ and âpopularâ.
Cabinet Minister Francis Maude made his outrageous comments as he revealed plans for further cuts of ÂŁ20 billion if the Tories win the general election.
Speaking at the Tory conference last month at a fringe event titled âhow to cut public spendingâ, Mr Maude gushed enthusiastically about overseeing thousands of civil service job cuts.
________________________________
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/listen-top-tory-minister-praise-4462389?ICID=FB_mirror_main
I beginning to agree with Craig no voters are terminally naive.
What is “left” in Scottland?
Johann Lamont?
He is a very confused woman.
The above represents some progress, in that you now admit that nothing was said in the context of âThe Vowâ that could reasonably have led Scottish people to believe that they would have full control of future oil and whisky revenues.
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Habb
Firstly I never for one moment said that the vow mean’t anything significant, in fact it was I who, informed you of the worthlessness of the vow.
Secondly if Westminster fail to deliver on the so called powers, it will be a win for Holyrood, as in as much as we told you so, Westminster can’t be trusted.
As for the political civil unrest, it didn’t do the protesters in Trafalgar Square during the Poll tax unrest of 1990,any harm.
Have any of you signed the Petition to Devolved Scottish Broadcasting?.
It seems to have got stuck just short of 26,000.
Craig managed over 93,000 with his speech made in St. Andrews 26th. August.
So if you are kicking up hell on here about the “biased BBC”, I expect you would have signed. In an effort to fight back.
Just do it please.
Republicofscotland
“Here you go Gutter, your wonderful Westminster.
_______________________________
One of David Cameronâs top ministers has sparked fury after praising 80,000 job losses âgoodâ and âpopularâ.
Cabinet Minister Francis Maude made his outrageous comments as he revealed plans for further cuts of ÂŁ20 billion if the Tories win the general election.
Speaking at the Tory conference last month at a fringe event titled âhow to cut public spendingâ, Mr Maude gushed enthusiastically about overseeing thousands of civil service job cuts.
________________________________
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/listen-top-tory-minister-praise-4462389?ICID=FB_mirror_main”
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It would be helpful if you put quotations into inverted commas, RoS.
I read your link to the Mirror newspaper and saw that it had two photos of Labour politicians in it. One was of Alastair Darling, well-know to all.
The other was of an individual called “Michael Dugher”, who is apparently the Shadow Cabinet Minister.
Is “Michael Dugher” yet another of the Scots who are so over-represented at the top of the Labour Party?
“Left/Right/up/down is just the system gaming the people. Whatâs your alternative?”
We could start by making strict changes to all constitutions not allowing any government to wage war without a referendum. I think Peacewisher might agree with me on that.
John McDonnell has raised an EDM for taxes spent on military adventures to be spent on important things like the NHS, schools &C. Only 6 MPs have signed it up to now. If yours is not one of them you might like to write politely to her or him.
“By writing to your MP and asking them to back EDM 350 you can make sure your MP plays a key role in the tax shift away from war towards peace.
EDM 350 can be found here:
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/business-papers/commons/early-day-motions/edm-detail1/?session=2014-15&edmnumber=350
Find out who your local MP is here:
https://www.writetothem.com/
If you need advice on wording a letter, how to contact your MP or if you have any questions on the Early Day Motion or the future Peace Tax Bill please email [email protected] ”
What’s your alternative Ben?
“Is âMichael Dugherâ yet another of the Scots who are so over-represented at the top of the Labour Party?”
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Habb
I’ve no idea about Mr Dugher, but I suppose anything that diverts the attention from main point, will suit you just fine.
It’s a start John, but my approach is more radical. When a limb has gone septic, amputation is necessary to keep the body healthy.
Start with publicly-funded elections, but it must be mandatory. In the US it was available in 2008, but signing up means you can’t accept funds from other sources, or even use your own money for the campaign. For it to work, all parties must agree to make the field level. Obama said he wanted to do it, but McCain refused. It’s necessary as a step toward taking the truncheon of private money out of the mix.
Republicofscotland
“âIs âMichael Dugherâ yet another of the Scots who are so over-represented at the top of the Labour Party?â
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Habb
Iâve no idea about Mr Dugher, but I suppose anything that diverts the attention from main point, will suit you just fine.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is there really something you “have no idea” about? I’m amazed ‘cos I thought you knew everything, so broad is the scope of your comments and so bold the thrust of your “comments”.
But that’s by the by.
What WAS the “main point” of your post at 18h28, RoS? I couldn’t see any point, main or otherwise, articulated in your post.
Unless it was to show that you are a man of the people who follows the Mirror?
Dugher one time vice chair of Labour Friends of Israel.
and around in 2003 when Dr Kelly died.
‘Apart from working at Number 10 as Bruiser Brownâs chief political spokesman, the MP for Barnsley East has been linked to many other calamities.
For example, he was Defence Secretary Geoff Hoonâs adviser at the time of the Hutton Report into the suspicious death of the government weapons scientist Dr David Kelly.
Hutton criticised the Ministry of Defence media team for publicly naming Kelly as a source for the controversial BBC report that the Blair government had âsexed-upâ its dossier to make the case for war in Iraq. Dr Kelly was found dead a few days later.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2234946/Ed-Milibands-new-Mr-Fixit-Michael-Dugher-real-calamity.html
‘Tom Baldwin, now Red Edâs senior media adviser, was the newspaper journalist who named Kelly as the source behind the BBC story by Andrew Gilligan that the Blair government had âsexed upâ a dossier about Iraqâs âweapons of mass destructionâ to justify war against Saddam Hussein.
Alastair Campbell, who advises Miliband on election strategy and was Blairâs communications chief at the time, wrote in his diaries that releasing Kellyâs name would âf*** Gilliganâ. And Michael Dugher, the Labour MP in charge of communications strategy now, was then the special adviser at the Ministry of Defence â which was criticised by the Hutton report into the death of Dr Kelly for the way it confirmed the weapons expertâs identity.
Campbell later claimed remorse over his actions â and demonstrated it by signing a copy of the Hutton report which was auctioned in 2006 for ÂŁ400 for party funds.
Kelly, the day he died, emailed friends referring to âdark actors playing dark gamesâ. Red Edâs team appears to contain some dark actors of its own.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2665444/ANDREW-PIERCE-Red-Eds-team-ghost-David-Kelly.html
RoS
Well, I’ve just googled Michael Dugher to save you the trouble of answering, RoS and am happy to report that he is neither a Scot nor does he sit for a Scottish seat.
It also appears however – apologies to you and Mary for spoiling your suppers! – that Michael Dugher has held the post of Vice-Chair of the Labour Friends of Israel (he is himself an RC).
Reminder – May is on Ch 131 now with the ‘Intelligence and Security Committee.
“What WAS the âmain pointâ of your post at 18h28, RoS? I couldnât see any point, main or otherwise, articulated in your post.
Unless it was to show that you are a man of the people who follows the Mirror?”
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Habb
Hmm! Well if you can’t see the main point of the article from the Mirror (A gutter rag I’d never buy, owned by the Trinity Mirror Group, who own the Daily Record)then I’m afraid there’s no hope for you.
Of course you have feigned stupidity before on this blog.
Be at 7.02 pm.
Yes, taking away the funding of election campaigns including personal funding would be a great start. The US has instructed UK MPs that their salaries are not high enough so they are to rise (again) by 12%. I remember Bill Rodgers, MP, coming to Birmingham University Labour Party, waving his Labour membership card about just before he was about to defect to the Social Democrats. He told students how when he first became an MP he only had a locker in the House of Commons but today he had an office with secretary and so on. It was clear where his priorities lay – in the direction of Bill Rodgers. Now, apart from a handfull, that’s how they all are. Soon they’ll be as bad as your lot in the House of Representatives (who apart from Ron Paul’s son and one or two others) represent themselves and their business paymasters. This shower of shit needs to hit the fan!!!
any of you signed the Petition to Devolved Scottish Broadcasting?.
It seems to have got stuck just short of 26,000.
Craig managed over 93,000 with his speech made in St. Andrews 26th. August.
So if you are kicking up hell on here about the âbiased BBCâ, I expect you would have signed. In an effort to fight back.”
Not bothered signing, as it aint join nowhere!
Since the Scots appear to be happy with the status quo, London aint gonna devolve nuthin, ever! ESPECIALLY their flagship trojan horse ffs!
Get real!
Mary – thanks for your postings at 7.20 and 7.25 pm. The former, a reminder [from the Daily Mail, which has its own rottweilers in this dogfight]of Michael Dugher’s involvement with “many other calamities” was made tastier by my initially misreading the word as “catamites”. UK politics are indeed Byzantine.
‘….my initially misreading the word as âcatamites’
LOL Stranger things have happened at sea!
“any of you signed the Petition to Devolved Scottish Broadcasting?.
It seems to have got stuck just short of 26,000.
Craig managed over 93,000 with his speech made in St. Andrews 26th. August.”
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Could the unpalatable truth just be that Scottish people – as was the case with independence – simply do not share the wilder beliefs of many on this and other blogs that the BBC is a vile, Satanic instrument for doping the mind of the people and furthering the agenda of the plutocratic, Bilderberg and Rothschild-loving, imperialist ruling elites? In other words, that they rather like the BBC as it is?
Just sayin’