It is amusing that Polly Toynbee attacks Russell Brand on the grounds there is a real difference between Labour and the Conservatives, on the day Ed Balls argues immigrants must be kept out by amending the EU treaties – in the same paper!
I have never been a great fan of Russell Brand’s media persona, and for a revolutionary to be shacked up with Jemima Khan’s millions is perhaps some kind of extended exercise in post-modern irony as performance art. But Brand’s perception that the neo-con political parties are all the same is absolutely correct, and his is almost the only voice the media will broadcast saying it. When I have been saying precisely the same thing for a decade it is not news. News, apparently, lies not in what is said, but whether or not it is a celebrity who says it.
Not voting is a perfectly reasonable choice. I would prefer that people voted Green, or independent, or SNP in Scotland or Plaid Cymru in Wales. But Brand’s option of not voting is also valid – the entire system of corporations, media and politicians is designed to block real change.
Polly Toynbee is a very rich woman compared to the rest of us, with a great deal of inherited wealth and a Guardian salary well into six figures, for writing a constant stream of tribal pro-Labour drivel. She quotes with approval John Lydon’s observation:
it’s clear, if you’ve got a pile of money in the bank, you vote for people with piles of money in the bank
Which is absolutely true, and why Polly Toynbee votes Labour. Another irony which flies over the head of the humourless old moneybag-toting harridan.
Toynbee is delighted to discover that the rambling Lydon is not really a revolutionary. The rest of the world had known it was only a money-spinning pose for forty years, and he is pretty right wing.
Extraordinary that Toynbee points out the strangeness of treating Russell Brand as a political guru, and then sets up John Lydon instead. The silly old bat really, really doesn’t get irony, does she? Or is Polly Toynbee in fact herself some kind of monumental performance art installation, designed on every level to project the futility and hypocrisy of New Labour?
What our society does to people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPaKNafdJ18
Lance Vance
“Instead of scoring points against each other on here- why don’t you display some real balls and give this man your support.”
___________________
The reason they won’t, old chap, is that they’re blowhards, armchair warriors and egocentrics.
You may remember that a (serious)commenter called Iain Orr called for co-signatories for a letter he was addressing to the Home Secretary on the Moazzam Begg case.
Of all the prolific commenters on here – many of whom had been vocal on that case ON THIS BLOG – exactly two co-signed. The rest were suddenly nowhere.
They love the sound of their own voice and they love talking to each other on here, but when it comes to “talking” to someone in authority outside……
“The reason they won’t, old chap, is that they’re blowhards, armchair warriors and egocentrics.”
I think what you call those without shame or remorse has something to do with sociopathy.
They are the happiest and most carefree sub-humans on the planet.
Ben
Did you stick your head above the parapet and co-sign Iain Orr’s letter to the Home Secretary on the Moazzam Begg case?
A transatlantic co-signature would have added much gravitas, don’t you agree?
I agree Johnstone 15 Oct, 2014 – 9:49 pm and I am heartened that Craig balanced his difficulty with Russell Brand with the conclusion: Brand’s perception that the neo-con political parties are all the same is absolutely correct.
@Lance Vance: “The threads however, contribute very little- cept sycophancy, point scoring, arrogance and general wind baggery.”
Well, what do you expect? Come on! At least we’ve progressed a bit from simply throwing poo at each other.
*
@Joe “Or Sinn Fein in Ireland/Northern Ireland?
Or the BNP in Oldham, Burnley and various other northern hell-holes? Or their smilier counterparts, the BNP-lite, UKIP ?
Come on, even a spoilt ballot is worthwhile.
@ Habbabkuk: “You may remember that a (serious)commenter called Iain Orr called for co-signatories for a letter he was addressing to the Home Secretary on the Moazzam Begg case.”
I do not recall seeing that. Is it still in effect? Do you have a reference, if you’d be so kind?
” At least we’ve progressed a bit from simply throwing poo at each other.”
I would be happy to review the evidence Glenn. 🙂
I think he has a point. The Left often is guilty of eating their own. Conservatives close ranks. How does one herd cats?
Glenn_UK
“Which do you suppose a politician cares more about – people who vote, or those who don’t bother?”
Well that is entirely another matter to your original assertion that non voters don’t “care”.
I imagine politicians are more concerned to appeal to those who vote. This is no indication of how much they “care”.
“You might note how old people (who definitely turn out to vote in larger proportions) get pandered to”
Meagre state pensions going down, winter deaths going up, no home services, second bedroom tax and forced home sale for care (etc) is not really pandering in my books. Are you thinking of the bus pass? Or are you confusing old people with wealthier people who are often old?
“I bet those politicians are quaking in their boots, thinking about your mates who are bold and “activist” enough not to bother voting”
Their boots quake to a tune neither you or I can sing. The difference is I have the small consolation of not being deluded. Reformists have little except despair and disillusionment in the face of the obvious truth that representative democracy is failed. So go ahead and be sniffy if it makes you feel better.
FTR it’s not just some of my mates who don’t vote. Lots of people don’t.
Thusly I spaked.
Lance Vance
15 Oct, 2014 – 9:43 pm
The threads contribute more than you think Lance although without patronising a few contributors give us some insight into imbalance at best, psychosis at worst.
Mark:
I maybe should concede that there are a few good commentators on here and it is these types of people that I would expect to be profoundly upset at the treatment of other individuals- like Craig, who expose many of the dirty deeds and evil of this filthy country at great risk to themselves.
I’m not trying to preach here and it has been alluded to on these threads before, but we are closer to being a police state that at any other time, where any kind of dissent is being dealt with in an extremely insidious way.
Before these blogs are severely restricted or even outlawed altogether we should at least acknowledge thAt there are other AM writers out there that need your support. If only by accessing their website and giving their stuff a look.
“The threads contribute more than you think Lance although without patronising a few contributors give us some insight into imbalance at best, psychosis at worst.”
Mark; I find it troubling that the Left cannot find common ground, rather than nit-picking points of order like Parliament. Is thee confluence that can be augmented rather than disparaged?
@Phil: I said “Not voting INDICATES you don’t care one way or any other”. (Emphasis added, for those hard of comprehension.)
That indication is the only licence a politician wants. You don’t disapprove vocally = tacit approval, as far as they are concerned. Margaret Beckett more or less said this after one “new” labour victory, IIRC – everyone’s so happy, they don’t want things to change, so more than half the population didn’t bother voting. Riiiiigggght.
On pensioners – of course the Tory thugs and “New” Labour thugs and Lib Dem thugs hate them as much as everyone else (assuming they don’t have money, and aren’t natural supporters). But do you ever hear a word said against them, by even the Tories? They aren’t pregnant, jobless single parent mothers, shiftless immigrants or work-shy “inner-city” types.
No – pensioners are always spoken about fondly. Or are you denying even that obvious fact?
Ben: It’s surely because those not given to following a loud, authoritarian ruler, are not so evenly governed (or united)? The Reicht generally want to find a strong leader, in whom they will put absolute faith. They will shut up about unofficial policies, unless they are the unspoken sympathies of the dear leader even if they should not be spoken aloud.
The left has no such blind faith and obedience, so divide and conquer has worked pretty well for the monied classes, to deal with that section of the rabble who sees through their blatant corruption and hypocrisy.
“The left has no such blind faith and obedience”
Indeedy, glenn. One of their greatest strengths is also their weakness. How human of them. Isn’t that how psychopathic criminals game the system to their advantage? You have to give them creds for manipulative intelligence, but is this any way to counter them?
There’s often a residual sentimentality to a lot of discussions about not voting. The case for not voting is open and shut, and it’s been obvious from a game-theoretic point of view since 1957. Still, there’s a hope that it will send them a message of some sort. They don’t give a shit if you vote or not because it’s rigged. The fundamental reason not to vote is that voting is a waste of your time. The boycott’s not an end in itself, or even a means. Ignoring elections frees you up to promote the collapse of the discredited regime and prepare for it with parallel government.
Glenn_UK
“@ Habbabkuk: “You may remember that a (serious)commenter called Iain Orr called for co-signatories for a letter he was addressing to the Home Secretary on the Moazzam Begg case.”
I do not recall seeing that. Is it still in effect? Do you have a reference, if you’d be so kind?”
__________________________
With pleasure, Glenn.
See the “Lack of forgiveness” thread, from 23h16 on 6 October onwards
Also : post on the “An ugly mood” thread at 15h20 in 12 October.
https://secure.greenpeace.org.uk/page/s/stop-fracking-law?source=em&subsource=20141015fraem01&utm_source=gpeace&utm_medium=em&utm_campaign=20141015fraem01
https://www.change.org/p/bbc-itv-channel-4-sky-include-the-green-party-in-the-tv-leaders-debates-ahead-of-the-2015-general-election
I personally find Brand ever-so-slightly creepy. The ladies, mysteriously, love him, so put it down to jealousy on my part. However, personal opinions aside, I can’t help agree that Brand is just part of the whole managed-dissent apparatus. Not his fault. He may well be entirely genuine, but in his role as a sleb, he’s basically harmless, so his career isn’t being ruined. Other’s aren’t so lucky.
Can’t help but feel, though, that even our celebrities are becoming US-style political eunuchs; compared to the majority, Brand is Che Guevara.
so will the court case http://www.techdirt.com/20140916/another-case-against-gchq-filed-european-court-human-rights-could-overturn-uks-main-snooping-law
be suspended because http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/theresa-may-promises-action-curb-ripa-spying-journalists...
looks like you at gchq are rather worried that the ECtHR case has some legs!
That nice Mrs Theresa has acted within a month is astonishingly fast for a government response
UK Gov hope is obviously that the court might take the UK micro-capitulation on the gchq powers into account for their proceedings, hence mumbling a response rather than the negative publicity and shining of spotlights where gchq doesn’t like it!, anyway it is excellent news!
er..but..my following question is – ‘the Spartacus question’
when the court asks “which of you citizens are journalists?,” – the obvious answer is – we’re ALL journalists
except perhaps Russell Brand and Polly Filla, sorry, Toynbee
Thanks Ishmael for those petition links. I have signed both.
Video. Brand replies to John Lydon.
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1413431592.html
The court jester is a real and honourable tradition which has long served as a challenge to power. Mockery diminishes pomposity. We need more merry pranksters.
And who paid the court jester? Cui bono?
I would never urge anyone not to vote. Votes for the parties you urge support for (SNP, Green, Plaid) and perhaps in England Left Unity make a stronger statement than would be made by left-wing people joining the ranks of the apathetic and staying at home. More generally, one doesn’t abandon one’s beliefs and principles for voting for “the bad” to defeat “the worse”
Great video Mary. Enjoyed it.
It’s a bit two minds for me tbh, I think John did some good work, he had a great voice in the pistols really. And PIL, loved the fist album. But he seems like a total splitter, coming over with all that fear based you’ll be living in cardboard boxes etc. What a totally conservative narrative.
I notice he had to say he wasn’t twice. That’s way to much uncertainty for me. He clearly is conservative. Authoritarian. Etc.
Glenn (and others). It’s still a bit early to expect a reply to the letter we sent the Home Secretary on 9 October. However, Mrs May appears this morning at 10.30 to give evidence in public to Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee. It’s possible that she might be asked about the collapse of the case against Moazzam Begg. The session can be watched live – see the link on the http://isc.independent.gov.uk/ website. The rigour and intelligence of the questioning will be of as much interest as her replies.
Excuse me for laughing in the back. Rifkind, Blears and Campbell. No chance.
We need the likes of another Lord Onslow.
http://isc.independent.gov.uk/committee-members
Current membership:
The Rt. Hon. Sir Malcolm Rifkind QC MP (Chairman)
The Rt. Hon. Hazel Blears MP
The Rt. Hon. The Lord Butler of Brockwell KG GCB CVO
The Rt. Hon. Sir Menzies Campbell CBE QC MP
Mr Mark Field MP
The Rt. Hon. George Howarth MP
Dr Julian Lewis MP
Lord Lothian QC PC
Ms Fiona Mactaggart MP
Ancram, Lord Lothian, is also there. Related to Agent Cameron by a family connection. Co- founding signatory of the Henry Jackson Society. Another YCNMIU.
Personal life
He married Lady Jane Fitzalan-Howard, the youngest daughter of the 16th Duke of Norfolk. They are both prominent Roman Catholics. She is a Patron of the Right to Life Trust[11] and also a Patroness of the Royal Caledonian Ball.[12]
The Marquess and Marchioness of Lothian (as now formally styled) have two daughters:
Lady Clare Kerr (born 1979), who is married to Hon Nick Hurd MP, son of former Cabinet Minister, Douglas, Lord Hurd of Westwell
Lady Mary Kerr (born 1981)
As his titles cannot pass through the female line, the heir presumptive to his hereditary titles is his younger brother Lord Ralph Kerr. However, his elder daughter is in line to become Lady Herries of Terregles, in succession to her two childless aunts and mother. Lothian is also one of the five co-heirs to the Barony of Butler, abeyant since 1905. Though the most junior heir by primogeniture, he is the one with the strongest claim, as the other heirs have a lesser share. Upon his death, however, his own share will be further divided between his two daughters.
His younger sister, Lady Cecil Cameron OBE, married Prime Minister David Cameron’s 6th cousin and Clan Chieftain, Donald Cameron of Lochiel. Another sister, Lady Clare, is the widow of the Earl of Euston (eldest son of the late Duke of Grafton) and the mother of the current Duke.
Lord Lothian is a keen country music fan and has often played acoustic guitar at Conservative Party conferences.[13] He is a Knight of Malta, a Knight of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem and a Freeman of Gibraltar.
~~~
Incestuous Tory partei relationships.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ancram
Mary
You beat me to the draw on listing the members of the Intelligence and Security Committee. Of course they inspire no confidence. I have spoken to two members’ offices to suggest that questions be asked about the collapse of the Moazzam Begg case, but have little expectation that anyone will rock the boat. However, it is important to keep a running record of examples of Parliament’s failure to hold the government and its agencies to account.