Unprofound Thoughts on Fracking 466


I hope I don’t pretend to have expertise on everything. On fracking I have none. My entirely amateur views on the subject are that the major risk appears to be pollution of aquifers. The UK seems too seismically stable for earthquakes or volcanoes to be a serious concern. I am not terribly worried about the local environmental consequences of the installations – human activity of all kinds detracts from the natural environment in a sense. This spot was doubtless a great deal more pleasing aesthetically before Dundee was built upon it. But then Dundee has a great deal more human utility.

It is also plain to me that humans are going to have to burn fossil fuels for a while yet, despite the very obvious fact that we also need to put much more energy and resource into developing renewable alternatives.

So I am not opposed to fracking in principle, which I know will upset some people. But nor can I understand the hurry. Fracking is being undertaken on a very large scale in the United States and elsewhere. Onshore fracking is not actually a new technology at all, but its widespread use is new. Given concerns especially about the effects on underground water supplies, why don’t we just wait for thirty years and see how it turns out elsewhere? That should give time for a good accumulation of evidence.

The hydrocarbons are not going anywhere – they will still be there in thirty years time and I predict will be a good deal more valuable. So my entirely unprofound, non-fundamentalist and dully pragmatic view on fracking is that there should be a thirty year moratorium. Then we can think about it.


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466 thoughts on “Unprofound Thoughts on Fracking

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  • Tony_0pmoc

    Sorry, for losing my avatar.It was just a O instead of a 0..I get banned..but its still me.

    I think people recognise the way I write..even if I do make mistakes.

    Tony

  • Silvio

    Why Standard Economic Models Don’t Work–Our Economy is a Network
    by Gail Tverberg

    The story of energy and the economy seems to be an obvious common sense one: some sources of energy are becoming scarce or overly polluting, so we need to develop new ones. The new ones may be more expensive, but the world will adapt. Prices will rise and people will learn to do more with less. Everything will work out in the end. It is only a matter of time and a little faith. In fact, the Financial Times published an article recently called “Looking Past the Death of Peak Oil” that pretty much followed this line of reasoning.

    Energy Common Sense Doesn’t Work Because the World is Finite

    The main reason such common sense doesn’t work is because in a finite world, every action we take has many direct and indirect effects. This chain of effects produces connectedness that makes the economy operate as a network. This network behaves differently than most of us would expect. This networked behavior is not reflected in current economic models.

    Most people believe that the amount of oil in the ground is the limiting factor for oil extraction. In a finite world, this isn’t true. In a finite world, the limiting factor is feedback loops that lead to inadequate wages, inadequate debt growth, inadequate tax revenue, and ultimately inadequate funds for investment in oil extraction. The behavior of networks may lead to economic collapses of oil exporters, and even to a collapse of the overall economic system.

    An issue that is often overlooked in the standard view of oil limits is diminishing returns. With diminishing returns, the cost of extraction eventually rises because the easy-to-obtain resources are extracted first. For a time, the rising cost of extraction can be hidden by advances in technology and increased mechanization, but at some point, the inflation-adjusted cost of oil production starts to rise.

    With diminishing returns, the economy is, in effect, becoming less and less efficient, instead of becoming more and more efficient. As this effect feeds through the system, wages tend to fall and the economy tends to shrink rather than grow. Because of the way a networked system “works,” this shrinkage tends to collapse the economy. The usage of energy products of all kinds is likely to fall, more or less simultaneously.

    In some ways current, economic models are the equivalent of flat maps, when we live in a spherical world. These models work pretty well for a while, but eventually, their predictions deviate further and further from reality. The reason our models of the future are wrong is because we are not imagining the system correctly.

    Continued here: http://ourfiniteworld.com/2014/06/23/wy-standard-economic-models-dont-work-our-economy-is-a-network/

  • Tony_0pmoc

    If you Really Want To Know what This is all about from My own Personal Point of View…

    It is Kick Back From The Most Beautiful Most Innocent Girls From Serbia…

    When You Bastards Started Bombing Yugoslavia…

    Amd Do Not Try And Give Me ant Fuckin Excuses You Cunts….

    And when Your KSA Cunts Started Cpturing My Ex Girlfriend’s Cousins..cos they were Beautiful..the most beautiful human beings..and you did that..I know you did..you killed these teenagers for their hearts their kidneys and their livers..

    Well ANTHONY CHARLES LYNTON BLAIR

    My Angel’s Kids..are Going To Prosecute YOU

    ANTHONY..and the Rest…

  • Mary

    Panorama tonight BBC1 22.35

    To Walk Again
    Panorama
    In a world exclusive, Panorama tells the story of a paralysed man who is able to walk again after a pioneering transplant using the regenerative cells that repair and renew our sense of smell.

    21 October 2014
    Paralysed man walks again after cell transplant
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29645760

    ‘Continual renewal

    The treatment used olfactory ensheathing cells (OECs) – specialist cells that form part of the sense of smell.

    OECs act as pathway cells that enable nerve fibres in the olfactory system to be continually renewed.

    In the first of two operations, surgeons removed one of the patient’s olfactory bulbs and grew the cells in culture.

    Two weeks later they transplanted the OECs into the spinal cord, which had been cut through in the knife attack apart from a thin strip of scar tissue on the right. They had just a drop of material to work with – about 500,000 cells.

    About 100 micro-injections of OECs were made above and below the injury.

    Four thin strips of nerve tissue were taken from the patient’s ankle and placed across an 8mm (0.3in) gap on the left side of the cord.

    The scientists believe the OECs provided a pathway to enable fibres above and below the injury to reconnect, using the nerve grafts to bridge the gap in the cord.’

    Amazing stuff.

  • Peacewisher

    Gosh, yes, ALEXANDER. I didn’t know about the Italian, but as this is an observable phenomenon it seemed surprising that no-one had observed it before Fleming.

    @Ben: for learning to take place there has to be an acceptance that your existing internalised model of the universe (we all have one) is wrong. In cognitive terms, that means our existing cognitive structure is due for a bit of demolition work… which is the painful bit. The rearrangement and reorientation of bits of information into a new structure that gives us greater insight is the Archimedes “Eureka” moment that gives us that “peak” experience. If you think of learning as like climbing a mountain, it is hard work against resistance, and you get your reward when you get to the top.

    The best model for learning I ever came across was Kelly’s “man is a scientist…” Check it out.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Is this actually on The Daily Telegraphs Front Page….NOW

    Chris Spivey,

    I don’t think it is you..but this bloke who looks exactly like you and occasionally turns up at my local pub…has really nice Tattoos on His Neck. Your neck.seems to be fairly tattoo free..so far as I can tell, so it is probably just a co-incidence, and he is not you..If it is..Well..buy my wife a half of cider and black..and I will have a pint of bitter..

    So I wrote this on Craig Murray’s website tonight..it just kind of came out…

    If you Really Want To Know what This is all about from My own Personal Point of View…

    It is Kick Back From The Most Beautiful Most Innocent Girls From Serbia…

    When You Ba@@stards Started Bombing Yugoslavia…

    And Do Not Try And Give Me any F’ckin Excuses You CUU@nts….

    And when Your KSA CUU@unts Started Capturing My Ex Girlfriend’s Cousins..cos they were Beautiful..the most beautiful human beings..and you did that..I know you did..you killed these teenagers for their hearts their kidneys and their livers..

    Well ANTHONY CHARLES LYNTON BLAIR

    My Angel’s Kids..are Going To Prosecute YOU

    ANTHONY..and the Rest…

    ANTHONY xx

    Tony
    • Edit• Reply•Share ›
    Avatar
    Ziggy Starburst • 34 minutes ago
    Thanks for that,Tone. Absorbing stuff, as ever.
    • Reply•Share ›
    Avatar
    itzman • an hour ago
    Sooner or later, Dan Hodges is going to have to deal with reality.

    Tony xx

  • Ba'al Zevul

    2) “All you need to make nitrogen fertilizer is air, water and energy.”

    A lot of energy, a huge amount of energy. World nitrogen demand is measured in hundreds of millions of tons. Without oil the windmills would be working overtime just to keep the lights lit.

    Arse about face, Fred. Wind power, as you happily remind us, is intermittent (but on the average, a useful source of energy) So it’s fine for producing stuff which can be stockpiled against demand cycles. Therefore, use wind for automatable processes, such as electrolysis of water and ammonia production*, releasing oil for fluctuating demand loads.

    Though I favour bioengineering root bacteria as an alternative to dumping tons of energy-expensive ammonium nitrate on the land, most of which just dissolves and does no good at all.

    *they go together

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Following up from one of Silvio’s links, and getting a better idea of why fracking isn’t a particularly good idea:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/102078976

    Here’s another point: the depletion rate is very high in these wells. You are literally squeezing oil from a rock. It can be on the order of 80 to 90 percent depletion over a couple years. So you have to constantly keep drilling new wells to meet the production quota.

    And there really isn’t a lot of options. They have to drill, or they don’t have cash flow. And they still have to make the interest payments!

    We’re talking a lorra, lorra wells here:

    But who can, or will want to, fund the drilling of millions of acres and hundreds of thousands of wells at an ongoing loss? The lifetime cap(ital)ex(penditure) for just the Appalachian and Permian exceed $1.5 trillion

    http://www.oxfordenergy.org/wpcms/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/US-shale-gas-and-tight-oil-industry-performance-challenges-and-opportunities.pdf

    (Which starts off optimistically, but becomes more and more thoughtful as the report proceeds.)

  • nevermind, there's a future, still

    Thank you for injecting some sense in the debate, Johnstone, the problems are not going to be scientifically solved, because we can also see the kick back bribing culture emerge from the chemical muds created elsewhere.

    Fracking companies use the mantle of commercial secrecy and competitions laws to avoid all scrutiny of their chemical concoctions used in fracking.

    Talk is of ‘How much’ will the large landowner/community/local council receive for allowing it under their land, its not about safeguarding the environment. Engineers, although versatil,e bless, and may there be loads more educated who understand the dire need for sustainable solutions, do tend to follow a path of engineering and are slightly blinkered about the wider impact of their solutions at times.

    Lets not talk up unlaid eggs until those who gain to benefit have left a list of chemicals to be used with DEFRA and the EA, so they can be assessed and experiments undertaken regards to their impact on the environment/watercourses.

    Some five companies extract water from the Bowland basin for a living, however bad and unsustainable it it. and its earmarked for fracking.

    Where are the free water fountains in our City’s? Why are we promoting plastic water?

  • fred

    “Arse about face, Fred. Wind power, as you happily remind us, is intermittent (but on the average, a useful source of energy) So it’s fine for producing stuff which can be stockpiled against demand cycles. Therefore, use wind for automatable processes, such as electrolysis of water and ammonia production*, releasing oil for fluctuating demand loads.”

    But is it even feasible? If you took every last kW of renewable energy produced in the world would it make the nitrogen we use or anywhere near? At what cost? Even renewable costs money to generate, would a bag of fertiliser end up costing ten times as much?

    Seven billion is a lot of mouths to feed.

  • Arbed

    Not at all relevant to discussion of fracking (unless one considers Sweden is fracking with European law over the Assange case…) – sorry, didn’t know where best to put this post to update followers of Craig’s blog.

    The Assange defence team’s response to the Swedish prosecutor’s arguments against his appeal to drop the arrest warrant (and hence the EAW) has gone in. The prosecutor now has until 27 October to respond to this document and then the SVEA court will announce what it plans to do next.

    http://www.swedenversusassange.com/IMG/pdf/p.pdf

    If you are interested in the Assange extradition case, this document is really worth reading in full. It’s 11 pages plus two short appendices, all in English and the legal arguments contained in it are crystal-clear.

    TL:DR? The document covers:

    1. Various European human rights law directives & precedent cases regarding the arbitrary deprivation of liberty that the Swedish prosecutor is breaking and that, contrary to prosecutor arguments, Assange’s time in the embassy counts towards the length of time he’s been detained. (This will affect the cost of compensation due further down the line.)

    2. Matters pertaining to the principle of proportionality in the prosecutor’s attempt to pressure Assange to give up his political asylum.

    3. That the prosecutor’s claim that she needs to interrogate Assange in custody in Sweden is incoherent, especially as regards taking a DNA swab – she has already agreed in the UK Supreme Court Agreed Facts that one was taken when Assange was first arrested in December 2010.

    4. A motion that the SVEA court rules the prosecutor must hand over the women’s phone and text traffic to the court. Alternatively, a motion that SVEA applies to the European Court of Justice for a preliminary ruling in the matter. (A new Swedish law that suspects have a legal right to know the evidentiary basis of their arrest is derived directly from an ECHR Directive in 2012. The prosecutor has tried to argue against this.) Prosecutor is playing peek-a-boo with the women’s text message evidence again; defence were allowed only a few minutes’ sight of them during the last hearing and not allowed to keep copies, while the Swedish courts have not been allowed access to this evidence AT ALL. What the f**k is she hiding?

    5. Discussion of UK law on precedence and how rival extradition requests from the US and Sweden would normally be treated, backed by an affidavit from a UK extradition law expert.

  • that sub

    Talking of Perth…

    Old Etonian Rory Stewart, whose family seat is Broich House near Crieff in Perthshire, and who ‘tutored’ some of the ‘royal princes’ in their summer holidays (they’re a bit dim!)…oh, and who is currently the chair of the Select Committee on Defence, told the House of Commons yesterday that Russia is planning for a “major war” in 2018-19.

    What is he, jealous of all the advertisements the Swedes (Bofors, for those au fait with the weapons sector) are getting in the newspapers as they “hunt” for that “submarine”?

    The top families in Sweden, a country owned by a single family, the Wallenbergs, have long been more imperialist than a lot of people know about. They’re looking for some well-juicy contracts on the other side of the Baltic. No wonder the Finns won’t help them in their grandstanding, er, I mean their “search”.

    “Stealth ships”. Norway made the stealth corvettes first, but they’re way behind on the advertising.

    Anyone here watch the Eurovision Song Contest? Well most people do in Sweden and Norway. Want to know a difference between those two countries? Think about it!

    And these days, wars can be started for advertising reasons, e.g. Libya and Georgia.

    But the Stockholm archipelago is an interesting geographic item, and it may be the case that certain devices and capabilities really are hidden away there…by forces which aren’t Swedish.

    The British SBS used to raid Sweden until recently, often pretending to be Russians.

    Which makes a mockery of what Niklas Granholm, an analyst at the Swedish government’s Defence Research Agency, told the Daily Telegraph. He said the supposed ‘submarine’ must be Russian because “Our Baltic neighbours don’t have the capability, neither do the Finns. Norway and Denmark – not very likely; would the US want to do it, why? The UK? Certainly not. So you rule all those out and it points in a certain direction.

    I wonder whether he’s ever seen a shot fired in anger.

    It’s NATO and Sweden which are trying to get more militarisation in the Baltic… Big exercise back in June. Telegraph readers may have forgotten, but the editors haven’t.

    I am expecting new revelations in this “submarine” story…

    Join-up with the MV Arctic Sea story soon? Anyone?

  • that sub

    Rory Stewart – typical British upper-class Tory royalist country-house cunt. Atlanticist record as long as your arm, the darling of the New York Times, and – oh right – a Bilderberger to boot.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    @ That Sub (BTW, what’s your usual handle??) :

    Thank you for that fascinating bit of detective work . I hadn’t, for instance, realised that the SBS used to raid Sweden disguised as Russians, not had I understood clearly the rôle of the EUROVISION song contest in Scandinavian/Russian geopolitics.

    But, as some Eminence or other said the other day, you learn something every day on here. 🙂

  • that sub

    There are many easily available sources on British special forces’ activities on the Swedish coast, including giving the impression they were Russians.

    As for Eurovision, I’m not sure whether you understood my point. The Norwegians made the new kind of stealth corvette (Skjold-class) before the Swedes (Visby-class), but they haven’t been half so good at advertising it. In ‘communications’ terms, it’s kind of ‘Norway, nul points’ against Abba. The Swedes are doing a pretty effective job, wouldn’t you say?

    And stop keep asking who I am. Father fucking Christmas. What does it matter?

    As for Julian Assange, who has been mentioned here recently, maybe he’s become a bargaining chip in a competitive push for weapons contracts? Just a thought. Look at it from a Swedish point of view.

    New (front-of-stage) ‘government’ in Sweden.

    Are the Swedes telling the US they’ll drop the warrant against Assange unless they get a big piece of the weapons-contract action?

    What would you do? Got to look at what arrows you’ve got in your quiver, right?

    Bofors is a big player.

    May well not be as simple as I’ve just speculated, but someone had to say it. Otherwise we’re just in day-to-day media land.

    The new government in Sweden. Sales drive for the corvette. Pictures of camouflaged ships carrying blue and yellow flags all over the media.

    Conflict in East Ukraine? Manufactured rise of tension in Estonia? Players look for opportunities. Players make opportunities. Big business aren’t wimps. They get their governments and newspapers moving!

  • gary

    The British monarch’s real surname is Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg. It’s always the male line that counts in aristocrat-land.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    that sub 21 Oct, 2014 – 11:53 am

    “Anyone here watch the Eurovision Song Contest? Well most people do in Sweden and Norway. Want to know a difference between those two countries? Think about it!”

    Thought about it. Too thick. Don’t get it. Tell us.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    “Thought about it. Too thick. Don’t get it. Tell us.”

    should’ve refreshed before I asked.

  • YouKnowMyName

    More on the subject of Fracking in Syria

    a) Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:28am EDT (Reuters) – Britain said on Tuesday it was authorising spy planes and armed drones to fly surveillance missions over Syria “very shortly” in order to gather intelligence on Islamic State (IS) militants.
    some sort of vote would be needed shortly before/after the bombs are released, Aerial Fracking is the correct term?

    b) MI6 Fracking a doctor in Syrian prison? according to http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/local/streathamnews/11548568._/
    MI6 ‘did not want’ Epsom surgeon Abbas Khan freed from Syrian jail, his inquest hears
    by Alice Foster, Reporter

    Claims that MI6 “did not want” a doctor returned from a Syrian jail to the UK has emerged at an inquest into his death.

    The coroners’ court also heard that his grief-stricken family believed the Foreign and Commonwealth Office was “dithering” in the weeks after his capture in November 2012.

    Dr Abbas Khan, 32, travelled to war-torn Syria to save injured civilians but was arrested in Aleppo, tortured and held in captivity until his death on December 16, 2013.

    His family, backed by Bradford Respect MP George Galloway, are adamant the doctor, who used to work at Epsom Hospital, was murdered. But Syrian authorities claim he hung himself, just days before his promised release.

    His brother Dr Afroze Khan told the Epsom Guardian that last Tuesday: “I gave some evidence that I was told by an individual, who also gave evidence, that MI6 had intimated that they did not want my brother to be returned.”

    The anonymous witness, referred to as Mr B during proceedings, has connections with Syrian intelligence and reportedly met with a government official thought to be from MI6.

    Dr Afroze Khan said if the allegation is true then MI6 would need to answer why the humanitarian worker was not wanted back.
    He said: “If it’s true, it’s a scandal. A man has died. It’s a tragedy.”

    … the FCO is demonstrating considerable inertia and dithering …

    A Facebook page, run by his sister Sara, said: “The jury heard from Afroze Khan and another witness about intelligence services and them having knowledge of Abbas Khan’s detention and questions were then raised as to their role in Abbas’ death.

  • Republicofscotland

    PS – needless to say (but you don’t), Haneen Zoabi is an Arab member of the Knesset.
    _______________________________

    Habb

    There was a reason I left that out I knew you’d be on it like a fly on sh*te,and you didn’t disappoint, Gotcha!, I’m afraid not I however got you.

    I’ll tell you why, you’re interest was more to do with the fact that the woman is an Arab, rather than what she was saying, that simple reply of yours revealed a huge chunk of your character and remit.

    It is I, who should be thanking you.

  • YouKnowMyName

    More on Assange Fracking, (I think that what he called it in Swëdish?,) in the New Scientist of all places
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26426-julian-assange-i-hope-theres-much-still-to-come.html?

    He doesn’t claim that Google is Evil personified; Julian is further spot-on with an explanation of the wonder that is the Bitcoin currency BLOCKCHAIN (effectively it is a very public receipt & transaction list being even broadcast by Radio Finland as well as available on the internet)
    The Blockchain is just a long number, made up of signed (secretly hashed) transactions, but it is transformational. We are developing Bitcoin BLOCKCHAIN based SMS-style communicators (low-metadata, low-spoofability, forensically-high-persistant)

    (if both of you readers ever do consider adding to the Bitcoin BLOCKCHAIN then use a blooδy good password/passpshrase, as in thousands of bits equivalent, preferably based on a real, feasible random number taking the Ekhart Quantum entanglement-based protocol into account; certainly it would help nowadays to have an understanding of the monogamous nature of quantum correlations in the context of a multiparty protocol)

  • Republicofscotland

    Christophe de Margerie, the chief executive of French oil company Total, has died in an air crash in Moscow.

    His corporate jet collided with a snow plough and was then engulfed in flames. All four people on board were killed.

    The driver of the snow plough was drunk, according to Russian investigators.

    Total is an important player in the Russian energy market and Mr de Margerie was a staunch defender of maintaining ties, despite Western sanctions against Moscow over its actions in Ukraine.

    Total is one of the biggest foreign investors in Russia and is planning to double its output from the country by 2020.
    _________________________________

    Accident? or Foul Play?

    In my opinion the story is rather flimsy, someone wanted Christope de Margerie, removed.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29699733

  • YouKnowMyName

    in breaking news: Terrorist accuse Terrorists of being formed by terrorists, depending upon your point of view.

    (but I think they are referring to this ‘lessons’ image
    http://www.beta.islam-unterricht.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ISISTreffenMcCain-1470x700_c.jpg )

    when the current head of Chechnya decides to remove the internet, for the sake of his children, you know something is wrong? (text vaguely from ТАСС)

    {Putin appointed} leader of Chechnya Ramzan Kadyrov said that the ISIL is a terrorist organization on the payroll of western secret services.

    “I would ask one and all not to call them Islamic State. They are Shaitans (devils, evil spirits) and their sole obsession is to grab as much money as they can lay hands on. They are acting on orders from the West and deliberately exterminating Muslims,” the press-service of the Chechen leader quotes Kadyrov as saying.

    “They have enjoyed support from the western secret services all along, which are providing them will all essentials. Where do these bandits take money for aircraft and for tens of thousands of sets of full combat gear? Certainly, they are being helped by high-placed people,” Kadyrov said.

    He urged the ISIL chief to recognize he works for the US intelligence. “(Abu Bakr) al-Baghdadi should take off his mask and declare loudly and clearly that he is a CIA agent, that he has been recruited. If he really considers himself a devout Muslim, he must openly confess that he is killing his brothers in faith, to apologize to his coreligionists and to disband his gang. Only then there will be peace. Otherwise they must be wiped out,” Kadyrov said.

    Chechen president adds Obama, several EU officials to his own blacklist

    The Chechen leader said that all schools, colleges and universities were holding special briefings and awareness promotion lectures to warn young people against joining the ISIL. Kadyrov has called for shutting down the Internet in Chechnya.

    “There was a time when I had a dream my republic would have the Internet some day. Now I am for shutting it down. Although in political, economic and social terms it will be a great setback, we will stop killing each other. Each home has access to the Internet. Any person is free to hear Wahhabis preach their sermons. This is the reason why our priests are so active in the social networks, too,” Kadyrov said.

  • Republicofscotland

    So the pregnant yak, aka, (Kate Middleton) has revealed the date her second inbred sprog will be due, (the poor yak is constantly suffering from,Hyperemisis Gravidarum) April 2015, will be the date another mouth comes into the world, that the taxpayer will need to look after until its dying days.

    I’m pretty sure the rest of the genetic and morally defunct blue bloods will be delighted, with its arrival, as it will divert thoughts from the bulging privy Purse, to Aw! isn’t the baby lovely, what a bunch of sucker Brits are.

  • YouKnowMyName

    RoS, a Previous French oil-king was arrested in 2001, Alfred Sirven, famous for eating his ‘phone SIM card on being caught!
    The Beeb said about him:”In the early 1990s he ran a subsidiary of the then state-owned Elf oil company, whose sole task was to dole out bribes and to buy influence around the world for the parent group and – it is widely alleged – for the French government as well.

    The money involved was staggering: billions of dollars, and Sirven creamed off a small percentage – still tens of millions – for himself.

    But in 1994 Elf was privatised, France was reeling from a succession of political corruption scandals and the kind of semi-sanctioned graft that Sirven had presided over was now seen as criminal.

    He fled to the Philippines, where he was eventually caught in 2001 and extradited back to France, allegedly having first swallowed his mobile telephone’s SIM card to stop police tracing his contacts.

    Before his trial, Sirven said that he knew enough “to bring down the republic 20 times over”, but in the end the politicians whose careers he could have ruined breathed easier, because he kept his counsel and named no names.” but that was many years ago

    With Christope de Margerie, it’s basically the same French/global Oil Company, and you question if he suffered an accident, similar to the Iranian journalist Serena Shim (annoying Turkey over the weekend,) who was car-accidented, or journalist Michael Hastings who annoyed the NSA?

    The facts of the sad crash at Vnukovo might take some time to establish as there are reported to be 4 different versions of events already, drunk pilot, drunk controllers, drunk snow-plow operator and/or poor visibility.

  • Johnstone

    You can forget science and scientists if you want to understand about the environmental crisis..you’ll find no answers there, just like you can forget technology, if you are looking for solutions which can only provide stop gap measures. Our values are way wrong

    Merleau-Ponty, Holmes Rolston, anthropologist and cybernetisist Gregory Bateson and Black Elk Speaks…have some answers..none are scientists.

  • YouKnowMyName

    welcome to Robert Hannigan new director of NSA-UK according to http://tnw.to/i4sZN (expands to thenextweb.com)
    incumbent for a couple more days as Director-General of Defence and Intelligence at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

    His predecessor, Sir Ian Lobban, is not (according to the Guardian) being sacked, but they go as far as saying “critics of the agency reckon it is looking to make a fresh start after a damaging period

    Sir Ian makes a worthwhile speech at the next-web website linked above, with the headline UK’s GCHQ staff would rather quit than be involved in mass surveillance, says its outgoing chief

    All the Snowden/Assange allegations (when analysed politically) or actuality (when analysed from a realistic world view) imply that all the staff of NSA-UK are mass surveilling their socks-off, always have been and still continue to do so! Does that mean that Robert Hannigan will arrive at an empty doughnut, wind whistling through Scarborough, Porthcurno will be silent, fields in ‘arrogate fallow?

    I have no wish to insult the integrity of the NSA-UK professionals, and I also commend “your quiet resolve – a resolve to continue doing extraordinary things for others” – I’d just like to pose the question – why do ‘the others’ seemingly represent only the opinions/desires of the US government?

  • Republicofscotland

    The facts of the sad crash at Vnukovo might take some time to establish as there are reported to be 4 different versions of events already, drunk pilot, drunk controllers, drunk snow-plow operator and/or poor visibility.
    _______________________________

    YKNM

    True no doubt, the official version will not marry up with the first version,as has happens in so many previous events especially this one by John Hamer.

    http://chrisspivey.org/on-yer-sparks/

    Also corruption in France is not unusual especially from the top down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16194089

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