This is my last comment for the year as we are off to spend Hogmanay as the guests of an Ambassador in Paris. Out of deference to my family, who have had the brunt of it these last few days, I am definitely not taking the laptop, so I will no longer be able to take part in the popular new bloodsport of proving your loyalty to the SNP by being nasty to Craig Murray.
My parting thought is that, as every year of my entire life, it has been a disastrous one for the Palestinians. Yet more land occupied, settlements built, homes destroyed, olive trees uprooted, shipping vessels sunk and yet another murderous onslaught on Gaza.
I warmly recommend this rare public appearance by Col. Larry Wilkerson, ex-Chief of Staff to Colin Powell and a fellow recipient of the Sam Adams Award for Integrity. His brief musings here on Israel and Syria come from a deep store of knowledge and a razor-sharp intellect.
Do have a wonderful celebration. The future will be good. We are closer to a transformational change in society than you may realise.
I regret that the word ‘troll’ has again been let through the spam filters, it’s not right.
Anon at 9.25 is a very disturbing post, enough to compare with some of Jemand’s most Islamophobic posts; seems very strange that somebody has gone to so much effort to collect such a massive handy store of links.
Yet even in that massive collection of polls, there nothing that compares to the 95% of Israelis who supported the murder spree in the last Gaza massacre, so does that mean that “Jewish and Democratic State of Israel” has the most terrorism supporting population of any country ?
I’m really be curious to see who would write a post above if given the opportunity. Both good and bad. Who would, what they would write about, perhaps defend if that kind of post. And who wouldn’t bother to.
“I came not to bring peace, but a sword”
Perhaps some couldn’t do it.
I’d like to read Ba’aal summarising his Blair research. And Mary on the NHS; Vronsky on campaigning; Phil on anarchy; Clark on a lot of things – I’m sure it would go on.
And Arbed on Assange, of course.
Macky
Why do you find my posting it disturbing, rather than the content? I thought some might be labouring under a few illusions, that’s all.
Technicolour
Yes, but you are looking at some very large minorities there. “Phew! Less than 50%” isn’t very reassuring.
May Election
I am getting a virus warning when I click on your link. Can you outline some of the main points made about “911 molten metal hypotheses”?
Macky: “there nothing that compares to the 95% of Israelis who supported the murder spree in the last Gaza massacre”
I agree with your first point but I would point out that, before the Israeli government (not the people) decided on this attack, polls had been showing 70 percent of Hebrew-speaking Israelis in favour of a peace agreement.
Will Ishmael and Herbie please understand that hatred and evil can become banal and part of the routine which is point being made by Hannah Arendt (which is of course what I suspect some here are seeking to achieve) but it was still nevertheless hatred and evil and not to be excused even though the degree of culpability may vary from individual to individual.
That is all I shall be saying on their stupid comments.
Anon – your point is? May Election – any fool knows that 19 or more terrorists conspired to fly planes into the WTC towers. Anyone using the scientific method knows silicon boils at 3265 °C and toxic isotopes of strontium and barium cause mutations which can overcome our immune system and cause cancer. I know – my father died of malignant tumors.
http://news.yahoo.com/world-trade-center-reopens-business-071956091.html
Good old Mary – happy to pick up on grammar, throw out insults etc. rather than answer a perfectly reasonable question. Of course if I were a real troll I might just make provocative statements that I wouldn’t be prepared to defend.
“Will Ishmael and Herbie please understand ”
I understand, and agree with your backtracking.
Anon; “Why do you find my posting it disturbing”
Err, because the extreme effort involved implies obsession & fanaticism ? Where did you find it, or is it something you yourself complied ?
Technicolour; “before the Israeli government (not the people) decided on this attack, polls had been showing 70 percent of Hebrew-speaking Israelis in favour of a peace agreement”
I think that is a stunningly low & damning percentage ! I would have thought that the majority of even the most anti-Palestinian Israelis would still prefer the peace over war !!
Anon, why are all your polls about Muslims? Did you look for any polls about, for instance, proportions of US citizens or UK subjects who approve of US/UK/NATO torture and/or wars?
I think you’ll find that people are just people, the world over. You’ll find common trends, particularly that the majority generally favour peace negotiations and oppose conflict, but when conflict is actually happening, and especially at the beginning of conflict, the proportion supporting conflict increases greatly.
Your list appears to say something about Muslims, but only due to the omission of other groups and issues. What it really shows us is the power of group-think, tribalism and mass communications, which are all typical in human societies.
Resident Dissident, I hope you’ll back me up on this.
Technicolour, I agree, I’m sure the’d be a good core of work. And it may focus it better, make less work in a lot of ways.
But I wonder what people would actully pick also. If it would be the expected thing.
Macky
No, obviously I didn’t compile it myself. Whatever the obsessions of the person who did, the facts contained still stand. Posting it required no effort at all.
Seems so, Resident Dissident. Why are you trying to argue with Mary about something that’s not real?
Macky “Technicolour; “before the Israeli government (not the people) decided on this attack, polls had been showing 70 percent of Hebrew-speaking Israelis in favour of a peace agreement”
I think that is a stunningly low & damning percentage !”
Hmm, maybe, not really, but still, significantly higher than the 95 percent you guoted *in favour* of violence.
Resident Dissident, if you do back me up on that, could you do it without insulting anyone please?
How can it be a ‘damning percentage’ if three-quarters of a country want peace?
Ishmael, this is Craig Murray’s blog and I think it should stay that way. But there is nothing preventing someone setting up another blog to serve the purpose you describe.
Clark
I agree that is a very selective list of polls – although I don’t think that their findings can be ignored, there are significant numbers of Moslems who support violence and extremism. I can also think of times when similar polls among Christians and other religions would have given similar results – although I doubt that you will find many polls supporting US/UK/NATO torture or wars, except in cases where a specific threat is perceived. I also don’t need polls to know that there are a large number of British Muslims who share very similar fears and concerns and general ethical standards that are similar to the rest of the population as a whole. Progress is usually made by focussing on peoples similarities rather than their differences.
That said I don’t think Anon’s evidence on matters which people were discussing, which he provided without comment, should be ignored.
Technicolour
“I’d like to read Ba’aal summarising his Blair research. And Mary on the NHS; Vronsky on campaigning; Phil on anarchy; Clark on a lot of things – I’m sure it would go on.
And Arbed on Assange, of course.”
___________________
and, nearer to home, Habbabkuk on the “Original Trolls” (aka the “Egregiousness of Excellences”) ?
The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.
Clark
“Anon, why are all your polls about Muslims?”
Because it was Muslims we were discussing, Clark. It is revealing that rather than attempt to refute the content of the post, some here prefer to attack the messenger or engage in whatabouttery.
What the polls show is that these attitudes, whether it be towards Christians, Jews, women (Technicolour, who I believe is a feminist, has always been curiously silent on this), apostates, gays, etc etc, are present to an alarmingly high degree in Islamic societies. I don’t believe there is anything contentious about that.
Clark
If I wish to insult anyone I will – but my general rule is not to cast the first stone.
Ishmael
“I understand, and agree with your backtracking.”
Well, you’d be wrong to agree with RD’s revised effort.
You were correct the first time.
His is a rather naive and superficial reading of Arrendt, as Bauman’s very famous work on the subject makes clear.
Indeed RD’s effort seems to amount to no more than a reading of the subtitle of her work.
What I find more alarming still is that people in the West who consider themselves, let’s say, ‘liberal left’, and who argue vociferously for LGBT rights, female equality, freedom of speech and religion, are for the most part absolutely silent about spme of the shocking attitudes towards these values in the Muslim community, Technicolour being a case in point. Presumably political correctness and maintaining multiculturalist dogma trumps all these values.
According to the polls, a third of British people support torture.
“Ishmael, this is Craig Murray’s blog and I think it should stay that way”
Well i’m sure ‘officially’ it’s so. But I don’t agree reality is like that.
This blog is made from Craig posting up top, and people commenting, supporting and contributing underneath. With some really excellent stuff sometimes……..And it could still be ‘Craig Murrays’ blog. And it would more closely reflect what he stands for. Develop and support this small community who support him.
It’s not a biggie to me, i’ll just fade off. But i’v put the idea forward and I think it’s worth defending. This ain’t the centre of the universe……So why not mess it up a bit.
“According to the polls, a third of British people support torture.”
Id like to put it to the test, with them understanding what it’s really for. And really like.