This is my last comment for the year as we are off to spend Hogmanay as the guests of an Ambassador in Paris. Out of deference to my family, who have had the brunt of it these last few days, I am definitely not taking the laptop, so I will no longer be able to take part in the popular new bloodsport of proving your loyalty to the SNP by being nasty to Craig Murray.
My parting thought is that, as every year of my entire life, it has been a disastrous one for the Palestinians. Yet more land occupied, settlements built, homes destroyed, olive trees uprooted, shipping vessels sunk and yet another murderous onslaught on Gaza.
I warmly recommend this rare public appearance by Col. Larry Wilkerson, ex-Chief of Staff to Colin Powell and a fellow recipient of the Sam Adams Award for Integrity. His brief musings here on Israel and Syria come from a deep store of knowledge and a razor-sharp intellect.
Do have a wonderful celebration. The future will be good. We are closer to a transformational change in society than you may realise.
Nuts = Tony
Nuts, but not the same nuts, followed him.
If only it was only him. If only we where left with a few nut jobs running about, left to themselves.
“Well, thanks to the Milgram experiment, we now all know that if someone ever asks you to inflict pain on someone else, don’t, because it’s appalling.
And so we progress.”
On the contrary. If that’s your reading then we don’t progress at all.
One more clue:
Our host Craig, didn’t “fail” the Milgram experiment, but most do. Still do.
These are important works.
Treat them with a little respect.
Anon, the UK has to stop meddling with people. We don’t have to *do* anything, we just have to stop. Imagine the peace 🙂
Herbie: fair enough. Will do.
Imo. All the people who think they want to torture people, let em get together and get it on.
All the people who want to attack or ‘save’ another country, go ahead, be my guest, Go to the middle east and do what you want.
Don’t take the whole state apparatus with you. Then see how much you want to help.
Herbie, the subjects in the Milgram and other experiments wouldn’t have inflicted physical pain in their everyday lives, but they would still inflict emotional and psychological pain. This is what humans are like; our natural state is to respect a small number of “superiors”, and to treat everyone else as inferior. “Equality” is an ideal, not a reality.
When authority stepped in and “authorised” the physical abuse, nearly everyone was prepared to commit it. But of course most of the time there are synthetic social and legal restrictions upon such behaviour.
Just watch kids in a playground. Sweet, innocent kids, hurting each other for fun and practice.
Human relationships are best characterised by abuse.
“24% of British people responded that they would support ‘some torture’ if it prevented terrorism”
That equals the proportion of Brits with an IQ less than 90, so that sounds right.
Those were people who volunteered for, and were selected for, an experiment, and were then put in isolation to test it. I’d say from that point their relevance to the majority was low.
Clark
We live in a world where each of us day and daily in our working lives inflict pain on others.
“I’m just doing my job.”
The British will do what the Germans did.
No, we won’t. Because we have learned from history, and are therefore not doomed to repeat it.
There has never been a time in my life when there were not multiple people wanting to hurt me for their own reasons.
Ah yes.
Their beliefs about infidels, apostates, women, gays etc are all our fault because we “meddled” with them. That’s how Technicolour gets round the glaring deficiencies in her approach. Ignore, deny, cry racist, or as a last resort, blame on us. Anything to preserve multiculturalist sensibilities, even turning everything you believe in on its head. I’m afraid all your declared beliefs about freedom of religion, expression, GBLT rights, women’s rights, are all an absolute joke, Technicolour.
Night all and a happy new year.
And there has never been a week in my life in which I have not felt like inflicting hurt. There probably hasn’t been a whole day.
Nonsense, Anon, but that’s fine. Night all, thanks for conversations.
Clark, Some don’t have good environments that encourage it. Trickle down more than anything.
Dominating government, oppressed society, oppressing each other then oppressing their families as a result. A class systems expression.
It’s not our natural tendency’s, is highly controlled, manipulated, encoraged, and structured injustice playing out, the gross power differences we pretend to ignore but are all around us.
IMO, If this is your experience of life and people in general, and especially Children I pity you. Get out of the UK for a time maybe, but even within it among ordinary people I can’t see it.
Or maybe your just drunk or depressed?
“No, we won’t. Because we have learned from history, and are therefore not doomed to repeat it.”
Tech
You really do need to read the wealth of academic research in this area. It doesn’t agree with you.
Read Bauman for starters. It’s all there.
I’d say we’ve never stopped doing “it”.
But, it’s the why we do it that you really need to grapple with.
Anyway. Nighty night.
Night technicolour, have a good’n.
Night all.
@Technicolour: the only thing that people have learned from history is that people don’t learn from history.
Kiev, Ukraine, 1st January 2015:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKMzwhHzRps
Well, away with you & your prophesies of doom. There’s an equal chance of something decent.
But thanks, night.
So I looked at the first link, which Anon’s list reports as:
The link points to an article in the Telegraph, but there it says:
My emphasis in bold.
I suppose I’d best check the other hundred or so links…
Anon; “I googled “Surveys of British Muslims” and it was the first result”
Ok, so you got it from here;
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm
Do you agree with that Site’s mission statement ?;
“The truth is that Islam is not a religion of peace and it is not like other religion”
If you are interested in the opinions of “British Muslims”, why do you fully quote that list, which contains more polls about non British Muslims, rather than for instance, link to this BBC page ?;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6309983.stm
Habbabkuk,Villager,Kempe,Jemand et al…
Go fuck yourselves you troll sockpuppet twats.
Villager you are one ugly evil twisted fuck.
Even though you n Habba and crew are probably one and the same my message remains the same:
Go fuck yerselves you Zersetsen torturing fuckwits.
Scum.
Well done, Clark.
Habbabkuk,Anon,villager,Kempe,Jemand…
Youre all state apparatchik torturers.
No touch torture yes but clear enough to those who know Zersetsen.
Scum.
John Goss,Clark etc,
Youre good smart men of truth,peace and integrity.I know that.
But please dont ever cut the trolls a bit of slack cos they post the odd sane thought.
Never forget Habbabkuk,Anon,Villager,Kempe,Jemand operate out of the hasbara handbook of lies and manipulation.
Every almost decent thought they post is a lurker/buttering up tactic out of the handbook to seek future leverage.
Never forget that crew are bought n paid for shills whove taken the immoral coin of evil.
Scum slaves.
Anon’s second link says “1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified”. This seems to contradict the 99% disapproval I mentioned in my previous comment. Anon’s link leads to a CBN News article by Patrick Basham, but that neither links to the original survey nor tells us the exact wording of the original question. However, it does go on to say:
Hmmm… If this isn’t as inaccurate as the 1 in 4 mentioned above, it suggests that nearly half of the respondents entirely disown the 9/11 attacks – in stark contrast to them approving of it.
Link 3 anyone?
Jives, if these people are as you claim, then they serve propagandists. Propaganda must be countered with facts, for the education of all who just read here rather than us who comment. Insulting those you call trolls would just play into their hands by failing to challenge their argument.
Attribution of the crime to the US government need not represent repudiation on moral grounds because objective examination of the evidence compels that conclusion. The poll may simply indicate that almost half of British Muslims are resistant to statist indoctrination.