This is my last comment for the year as we are off to spend Hogmanay as the guests of an Ambassador in Paris. Out of deference to my family, who have had the brunt of it these last few days, I am definitely not taking the laptop, so I will no longer be able to take part in the popular new bloodsport of proving your loyalty to the SNP by being nasty to Craig Murray.
My parting thought is that, as every year of my entire life, it has been a disastrous one for the Palestinians. Yet more land occupied, settlements built, homes destroyed, olive trees uprooted, shipping vessels sunk and yet another murderous onslaught on Gaza.
I warmly recommend this rare public appearance by Col. Larry Wilkerson, ex-Chief of Staff to Colin Powell and a fellow recipient of the Sam Adams Award for Integrity. His brief musings here on Israel and Syria come from a deep store of knowledge and a razor-sharp intellect.
Do have a wonderful celebration. The future will be good. We are closer to a transformational change in society than you may realise.
Then in Anon’s list we have this:
“attacks on Americans, attacks on Americans, attacks on Americans…”
NO! FALSE!
These figures refer to approval of attacks on US troops in Middle Eastern countries, and “al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.” referred to is that al-Qaeda want US forces withdrawn.
Anon, this is so flawed; why on Earth did you post it? Did you not check it yourself? Did you hope it would be accepted without scrutiny? What you’ve done is a case of “lies, damn lies and statistics”.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31078634/
So maybe the American Dream isn’t a “religion of peace” either.
Anon, you’ve been so, so wrong; do you intend to do anything about it? What about the list entries for “positive views” for Hamas and Hezbollah? Can you critique that yourself, and show me that you’re not merely bigoted?
I wouldn’t say that academics are always objective, but more so than those reporting from a political or economic perspective.
Regarding Ukraine, one of the best academic opinions is presented by Per Anders Rudling, from a Swedish university.
The rise of the Banderite movement in recent years has apparently been encouraged by all of the recent Ukrainian governments, including that of Yanokovich, presumably because nationalist rhetoric was popularist and won votes. Interesting perspective, but not widely reported…
Full history of Banderite movement since ww2 presented here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxDUUYFOZVI
Macky
“Anon; “I have no interest where it came from. Unless you can show that the information is incorrect then that is of no relevance”
Yet enough interest to find it & post it here; I doubt very much that many of those “polls” meet basic academic surveying rigor, so it’s your overall attempted mass generalisation that is of no relevance whatsoever,”
______________
Anon posted it here because – as someone else has already pointed out – the mini discussion started off about the attitude of the leaders of other religions (Muslim in the main) to the persecution of Christians (by Muslims in the main).
Why do you appear to object to Anon posting factual material relevant to the topic?
As to the polls meeting academic surveying rigour, well, many of the polls cited by Anon are by Pew and I have noticed that left-liberals are not averse to citing Pew findings when it suits them.
Your posts on this display a worrying degree of intolerance and denial. Are you of totalitarian mindset as well as being intellectually challenged?
“Habbabkuk,Anon,villager,Kempe,Jemand…
Youre all state apparatchik torturers.
No touch torture yes but clear enough to those who know Zersetsen.
Scum.”
and
“Never forget Habbabkuk,Anon,Villager,Kempe,Jemand operate out of the hasbara handbook of lies and manipulation.
Every almost decent thought they post is a lurker/buttering up tactic out of the handbook to seek future leverage.
Never forget that crew are bought n paid for shills whove taken the immoral coin of evil.
Scum slaves.”
___________________
Oh dear, Jives is at it again. And he still hasn’t learnt to spell “zersetzen”!
Suggestion to the Mods : how about imposing a “curfew” on Jives? No posts from Jives between 00h00 and 08h00?
Clark, thank you for taking the time, wading through some no doubt awful muck, to check the nasty Anon’s links, I’m not sure what happened to the name-dropping and boastful but somehow nicer Anon of the ‘Last Man’ thread, if they’re even the same Anon, or if a multitude are posting with that handle. His (or her) triumphant post above has not quite had the effect hoped for, it really is the most disgusting piece of incitement ever to deface this blog, his stock could could not sink lower. As most of us suspected and some such as Macky voiced, few, if any of the links would stand up to the least scrutiny.
Thank you Clark for taking the trouble to expose Anon’s “polls” as the crude agenda driven misrepresentations that they are, as I had already predicted; it’s hardly surprising that the extremists who go to such lengths to compile such lists, would stoop low enough to deceive people, banking that most people will not go to the trouble of checking as exactly as you have done.
Early morning LOL ! ;
“Why do you appear to object to Anon posting factual material relevant to the topic?”
Herbie
“Tech
You really do need to read the wealth of academic research in this area. It doesn’t agree with you.
Read Bauman for starters. It’s all there.”
________________
Am I being unduly suspicious when I regard assertions like “it’s all there” with suspicion?
Macky (08h36)
Thank you for attempting to “answer” one question.
Will you have a stab at answering the second question, which was:
“Your posts on this display a worrying degree of intolerance and denial. Are you of totalitarian mindset as well as being intellectually challenged?” ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PS – what is your opinion of the nocturnal posts from your colleague “Jives”?
I see habbaduk is now on the case, but rather than deservedly condemning Anon for posting such highly suspect, demonstrably non-factual material, a litany of lies, of no relevance by any stretch to the original or any subsequent topic, he’s already trying to rehabilitate Anon by some damage limitation. It won’t work habbaduk; Anon, yourself and Resident Dissident have over-stepped the mark so gratuitously, so often, there really is nowhere you can go from here, you really are each of you quite repulsive.
Guess who must have the record, by quite a considerable length, for appealing for moderation censorship ?:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/12/happy-new-year/comment-page-2/#comment-499845
“But please don’t ever cut the trolls a bit of slack cos they post the odd sane thought.”
I may seem to cut slack, but you can’t tell as much on the net. I never just believe what someone says.
I don’t like the implication of equivalence between what some do and the average Jo. When being a part of that is unthinkable to most. And I mean actually being part of systems they have full knowledge about. Not how it’s presented. It goes from it’s not happing to your all equally to blame and just as bad. Attacking the innocent for crimes and sickness at the top. Austerity is related to this imo. Just don’t let em see what monsters we are, or support. They are really that all about money.
It’s not healthy to be around. I’ll keep an eye open if any of my ideas or new ideas are implemented that change it. But it seems counterproductive. Opening yourself to this continually.
This blog, maybe most blogs, remind me of the government coalition, dysfunctional. And nothing within the system highlights those who actually work against it’s stated aims, or promotes those working for them. One could say the opposite in ways.
Deliberately trying to push peoples buttons, ect. Why would anyone subject themselves to this continually? What’s it actually doing? Not much…Maybe i’ll design some online magazine someday where people can contribute. But I don’t want to push my own agenda as much as empower others. Other peoples ideas are interesting.
“But please don’t ever cut the trolls a bit of slack”
Really, I don’t want to waste time with them at all. Though now I don’t think is necessary to moderate. Even if this blog was just more popular It would help. But i’v given some ideas at least, that may help to that end.
Macky
“Guess who must have the record, by quite a considerable length, for appealing for moderation censorship ?:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/12/happy-new-year/comment-page-2/#comment-499845”
________________
Is suggesting a curfew for “Jives”‘s nocturnal offerings a request for censorship
I don’t think so.
Rather, it is a comradely attempt to prevent “Jives” making a fool of himself over and over again.
If he were only able to post during the day, when he is (perhaps) compos mentis, the content of his offerings might – just might – be slightly better.
Tony M
“I see habbaduk is now on the case, but rather than deservedly condemning Anon for posting such highly suspect, demonstrably non-factual material, a litany of lies, of no relevance by any stretch to the original or any subsequent topic..”
______________
Well, you would say that, wouldn’t you.
Thee facts Anon posted are neither suspect, nor are they lies nor are they irrelevant.
But if course you characterise them as such because you don’t agree with them.
Your position is revelatory of a deeply sinister totalitarian mindset.
“Your position is revelatory of a deeply sinister totalitarian mindset.”
Eveybody want’s to rule the world.
Clark / Tony M
I am truly at a loss as to why you think the polls are all wrong. This inability to accept the evidence staring you in the face is quite frightening and indicative of a kind of liberal sickness for which, I am afraid, there appears to be no cure.
Habbabkuk
The timing of your proposed curfew is excellent in that it falls exactly within Jives’ night shift at Wilko’s. This will signiglficantly increase his work productivity and may even give him an outside chance at winning January’s coveted shop floor employee of the month award. If Jives can show a marked improvement in his output then I might even suggest a relaxation of the rules allowing him to post a couple of lines during his ‘lunch’ break (under supersvision of course).
Ishmael
Forgive me, but were you educated under New Labour?
Since 2002, after the US unilaterally pulled out of the ABM Treaty, which was absolutely a cornerstone of international security, a strategic balance of forces and stability, the US has been working relentlessly to create a global missile defence system, including in Europe. This poses a threat not only to Russia, but to the world as a whole – precisely due to the possible disruption of this strategic balance of forces.
I believe that this is bad for the US as well, because it creates the dangerous illusion of invulnerability. It strengthens the striving for unilateral, often, as we can see, ill-considered decisions and additional risks.
We have said much about this. I will not go into details now. I will only say this. Maybe I am repeating myself. We have no intention to become involved in a costly arms race, but at the same time we will reliably and dependably guarantee our country’s defence in the new conditions. There are absolutely no doubts about this. This will be done. Russia has both the capability and the innovative solutions for this.
No one will ever attain military superiority over Russia. We have a modern and combat ready army. As they now put it, a polite, but formidable army. We have the strength, will and courage to protect our freedom.
We will protect the diversity of the world. We will tell the truth to people abroad, so that everyone can see the real and not distorted and false image of Russia. We will actively promote business and humanitarian relations, as well as scientific, education and cultural relations. We will do this even if some governments attempt to create a new iron curtain around Russia.
We will never enter the path of self-isolation, xenophobia, suspicion and the search for enemies.
All this is evidence of weakness, while we are strong and confident.
Our goal is to have as many equal partners as possible, both in the West and in the East. We will expand our presence in those regions where integration is on the rise, where politics is not mixed with economy, and where obstacles to trade, to exchange of technology and investment and to the free movement of people are lifted.
Under no conditions will we curtail our relations with Europe or America. At the same time, we will restore and expand our traditional ties with South America. We will continue our cooperation with Africa and the Middle East.
We see how quickly Asia Pacific has been developing over the past few decades. As a Pacific power, Russia will use this huge potential comprehensively.
Everyone knows the leaders and the drivers of global economic development. Many of them are our sincere friends and strategic partners.
The Eurasian Economic Union will start working in full on January 1, 2015. I’d like to remind you about its fundamental principles. The topmost principles are equality, pragmatism and mutual respect, as well as the preservation of national identity and state sovereignty of its member countries. I am confident that strong cooperation will become a powerful source of development for all of the Eurasian Economic Union members.
Vladimir Putin December 2014 – The Hall of the Order of St. George – Great Kremlin Palace
“Forgive me”
?
Why not just ask? No I won’t forgive you.
Anon
Thank you.
I don’t know if you remember, but I once appealed to “Jives” to let us know exactly where he “worked”.
The reason for that was that if by any chance “Jives” was a health care worker, I would wish to do everything in my power to ensure that I would never end up as a patient in the institution for which he “worked”. After all, I would wish to be treated by sane people and have a sporting chance of emerging alive.
Similarly, if “Jives” worked in manufacturing, I would wish to carefully avoid giving the firm in question my custom lest I inadvertently bought a product in whose manufacture “Jives” might personally have been involved even in the slightest degree. After all, I would not wish to purchase a dud product.
For some reason, however, “Jives” never replied. Could you help, please?
It’s a better, more moral approach than killing them, destroying their homes and the countries they live in, or advocating doing so, which is the logical conclusion which must be drawn, as being your desired solution. I’m not so convinced a solution is needed or can be coerced, your outbursts amount really to “Something must be done”, I’m not at all convinced anything must be done or can be, and what’s been done already in the pursuit of oil, empire, the yankee dollar, religious factionalism and appeasing religious supremacist Israel’s murderous paranoia and greed, is already a stain on humanity, eclipsing in scale anything that has gone before excepting WW2’s Axis assault on Russia. I’m afraid it’s the nature of religion, Judaism, Islam and Christianity, each of them particularly leave rather a lot to be desired, singling any one out as particularly egregiously intolerant or bad, it’s mindless followers as any more or less extreme than the next smacks rather of motes and beams. Should have kept ourselves out of their neighbourhoods and left them to their own ways; by planting the Zionist Cuckoo in the Arab world on a stolen slice of prime real estate, starving and then bombing them and sowing the land with mutagenic DU, you can understand if they might sound a bit wrathful. There are many who can say it wasn’t in their name, and few, in which few you must surely be included, for whom it definitely was and still won’t disown it; how you deal with your guilt is your own problem, for the rest of us though there are new dangers and risks we and coming generations didn’t need, didn’t invite which others have brought upon us, which we must face, and the first and absolutely essential first step is for the unerring hand of justice to deal severely with those most directly responsible and still at large, not just the Blairs and Straws, Bushes and Cheneys, but thousands of lower level blood and guilt stained functionaries, here, in the US and in Israel and however far and long they run, one day a knock on the door, a tap on the shoulder, will come, and that is exactly as it should be.
A dud, or perhaps even dangerous product, Habbabkuk. If Jives’ attention was diverted at that crucial stage in the paperclip manufacturing process we could be looking at the potential for serious injury.
@Mark: A truly remarkable statement. I’m sure this would go down like a lead balloon in Washington. I’m sure the Rouble will get hammered again, when Wall Street opens.
What do you think about the elevation of Bandera to “father of a nation” status? I wouldn’t have thought that would impress even the neocons, because the propaganda value for promotion of a Ukraine bullied by Russia is totally negative. Certainly the latest show of force is being kept out of the mainstream media, RT excepted:
http://rt.com/news/219267-protest-bandera-journalists-attacked/
Mary, you are an illiterate twat. “Suffer” in your quote means “allow”. Get an education, man (for that is what you are).
Btw, kids all over the world are suffering while Craig Murray just gets fatter and fatter.
So stop licking his arsehole with such unrestrained pleasure, you filthy pervert.
Thanks Meg, the ardent genocidaires on here really needed a diversion at this stage, your unhinged intervention however can’t derail this thread, you’re just so much noise.
“for that is what you are.”
Does it matter?
Mmmmm smearing… lotion….
Back on topic: rich, snobby, English, establishment, suited, arrogant, ignorant, egotistical, chinless arriviste gets told to fuck off by boys who know better,and are better, and have worked harder than him.
What’s not to celebrate?
Away back to your home country, Craig! We don’t want you!
If you don’t believe me, stand as a candidate and see how many people want your fat arse, ye cretinous sassenach.
By the way, auntie Jean says your breath is smelly. Nadira might like that, but Jean doesn’t, OK?
“I’m sure the Rouble will get hammered again, when Wall Street opens”
My first thought was there you go America, invest.
Probably another one of those conflicts of interest between capital and empire.
Meg stop trying to discredit SNP members, Scottish people, or Independence supporters, it is quite clear now that you are neither of these things, but just another nasty unionist Britnat, a particularly foul-mouthed and immature one at that. Must suck to have so little to say for yourself and so little of argument that puerile personal abuse is your first and only resort. What are your views on independence, on monarchy, torture and genocide, religions, Palestine, the Scots’ £, NATO, the EU, the middle-east or Ukraine? Gather your thoughts and give it your best shot. I won’t ask how you managed to over-ride parental controls on your internet access, but feel free to tell us if you wish. Thanks.
Good point Peacewisher. The annexation of Crimea at least prevented the labelling of Crimeans as ‘Banderites’ – I know the ‘Babi Yar Ravine’ leaflets were printed by the CIA – Bastards!