This is my last comment for the year as we are off to spend Hogmanay as the guests of an Ambassador in Paris. Out of deference to my family, who have had the brunt of it these last few days, I am definitely not taking the laptop, so I will no longer be able to take part in the popular new bloodsport of proving your loyalty to the SNP by being nasty to Craig Murray.
My parting thought is that, as every year of my entire life, it has been a disastrous one for the Palestinians. Yet more land occupied, settlements built, homes destroyed, olive trees uprooted, shipping vessels sunk and yet another murderous onslaught on Gaza.
I warmly recommend this rare public appearance by Col. Larry Wilkerson, ex-Chief of Staff to Colin Powell and a fellow recipient of the Sam Adams Award for Integrity. His brief musings here on Israel and Syria come from a deep store of knowledge and a razor-sharp intellect.
Do have a wonderful celebration. The future will be good. We are closer to a transformational change in society than you may realise.
How exciting a whole page of discussing the ins and out of WW2 and Auschwitz’s last days, the default discussion when everyone gets bored or wants to compare something to the worst case scenario, its like a High school six form discussing the Nazionalsocialismus von 1939-1945.
Not interested, far more interested in today’s fascism, alive and well in the PEGIDA movement, here, in Greece France, Germany, Hungary Ukraine and Poland, it looks like they are, together with their multinational paymasters, delivering Europe into the hands of the US, via strife violence and hatred towards Muslims.
Earlier I pointed out the fact that the Germans kept no records of the numbers people who were murdered at Auschwitz. The precise figures will always be disputed as a result. Hoess himself varied between estimating it at 1.1 million, 2.5 million and 3 million. It can certainly be speculated that he was ‘tortured’ into confessing, of course. It certainly seems he was beaten into admitting his identity, when he was first picked up. At Nuremburg:
“I was in Nuremberg because Kaltenbrunner’s counsel had demanded me as a witness for his defence. I have never been able to grasp, and it is still not clear to me, how I of all people could have helped to exonerate Kaltenbrunner. Although the conditions in prison were, in every respect, good — I read whenever I had the time, and there was a well stocked library available — the interrogations were extremely unpleasant, not so much physically, but far more because of their strong psychological effect.”
Attempts to discredit Hoess’ testimony as a whole, by selectively picking out aspects of it, are saying what, precisely? He was not Commandant of Auschwitz? He did not oversee genocide? He was not responsible for the deaths of around a million people, or more? What?
“I wasn’t trying to undermine Technicolour but simply hoping they’d see the importance of a little more rigour in their argument would go a long way in making their case”.
You picked up on a conversation about the nature of evil, in which Hoess was used as an example. You gave one example to prove your point that his entire testimony was suspect: an out of context quote by Hitchens.
When it came to the Palestinians’ application to the ICC, US State Department spokesman Edgar Vasquez said the United States strongly opposed the move and warned it would be “counter-productive and do nothing to further the aspirations of the Palestinian people for a sovereign and independent state. It will badly damage the atmosphere with the very people with whom they ultimately need to make peace.”
http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2015/01/01/seeking-justice-is-counter-productive-us-tells-terrorised-palestinians/
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The USA shown for what it really is an obedient mouthpiece for Israel.
A top commander of Iraq’s volunteer forces has said aircraft serving the so-called anti-ISIL coalition formed by the US drop weapons for the Takfiri terrorist group.
Secretary General of Badr Organization Hadi al-Ameri said there was compelling evidence that the coalition’s aircraft threw arms and aid to the extremist group in the Salahuddin province in north-central Iraq.
He also said the coalition had failed to clear any area from the ISIL militants, adding that volunteer forces only relied on local support in their clean-up and liberation operations against the terrorists.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/01/02/391259/USled-coalition-aircraft-aid-ISIL
………………………….
Oh that’s right the US and the coalition forces had already dropped a pallet of supplies into the hands of IS by accident some months ago.
Which makes this mans statement completely plausible if not true.
The Conservatives have been accused of using “dishonesty as a weapon” after making inaccurate claims that the Government had halved Britain’s deficit.
The claim – contained in the party’s first general election campaign poster – was branded a “fib” and condemned as deceptive even by right-leaning commentators.
What was intended to be the smooth launch of the new year Conservative message on the economy rapidly unravelled just hours after David Cameron had unveiled the poster which is due to go up on billboards across the country.
Under the headline “Let’s stay on the road to a stronger economy”, the poster goes on to list the Government’s achievements of “1.75 million more people in work”, “760,000 more businesses” and “the deficit halved”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-accused-of-lying-in-campaign-poster-that-claims-deficit-has-halved-9954930.html
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The inept and corrupt Tories call it a fib, I however call it “A big fat f*cking lie.”
And that’s exactly what it is.
“Earlier I pointed out the fact that the Germans kept no records of the numbers people who were murdered at Auschwitz.”
Technicolour, are you suggesting the Germans, known for their meticulous record keeping, were mis-labelling murders as deaths by other means or that they didn’t record the death toll from all causes?
Please elucidate and cite your source for your assertion.
Thank you.
It suggests does it not that when interviewed by psychologists, after extensive torture and beatings, broken, and simply telling them whatever they seemed to want, with more of the same possibly still to come, he was not going to be singing “Oh what a beautiful morning” and entirely convinced of the rightness or righteousness of the victorious allies, might instead have been rather truculent, hostile and suspicious, in pain, possibly drugged, that even honest psychologists might find an accurate assessment an impossible task. Yet you thought the psychologists report worth quoting, without important background information as to the circumstances in which it was obtained. As you did with his decades ago discredited confession/testimony.
What could be learned about the nature of evil from such an incomplete picture?
I think my point too, made earlier was that the prosecution rather selectively picked out aspects of his testimony, and disregarded that which didn’t support the case they were making, so it is ironic that you now behave in the same way whilst accusing others of just that same thing.
Scouse Billy
The old trick of asking someone to prove a negative – I suppose you know because you have the records in your archives along with Mr Hitler’s diaries.
@TonyM
“I think my point too, made earlier was that the prosecution rather selectively picked out aspects of his testimony, and disregarded that which didn’t support the case they were making,”
Though of course you would never resort to such behaviour YCNMIU
This is just one of many videos from the Logan Symposium. There are many others listed in the RH column… Julian Assange, Daniel Ellsberg for example.
The Logan Symposium – Dec 6th – Eileen Chubb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq3NVIBMXUY
http://www.tcij.org/logan-symposium
Under the auspices of:
The CIJ advances investigative journalism in defence of the public interest. We organise an annual summer school, open to all, and courses and events relevant to anyone who needs to improve their investigative skills.
RoS Did you see my earlier link to the spoof version? The original was asking to be ridiculed as is Agent Cameron.
Conservative election campaign poster – original and improved version; any more?
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1420277829.html
“Yet you thought the psychologists report worth quoting, without important background information as to the circumstances in which it was obtained”
The circumstances being that he was the former Commandant of Auschwitz; that he was at the top of a regime which had decided on the Final Solution; that Auschwitz was an extermination camp. What could be learned about the nature of evil from conversations with such a man, indeed.
I really don’t understand you, TonyM. What do you think Hoess had been doing at Auschwitz?
Scouse Billy:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franciszek_Piper
But yes, Nevermind’s quite right.
A more informative link as to who spoke.
http://logancij.com/programme/
The Israelis, and in particular Netanyahu, are vile. This is retribution because the Palestinians are making moves for change.
Israel freezes Palestinian tax funds
Israel halts the transfer of tax revenues to the Palestinian Authority after it applies to join the International Criminal Court.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30667440
The NNC are up their tricks again. Incredible. Shades of Dr Rola.
BOOM! BBC Busted Using Sandy Hook’s ‘Noah Pozner’ As Pakistan Massacre Victim!
Submitted by IWB, on January 2nd, 2015
While much furor and speculation has surrounded the Sandy Hook event, those questioning mainstream media have turned up a great deal of subterfuge and trickery on the part of establishment outlets. As usual, no explanations of these oddities are ever offered beyond the usual ad hominem attack of “conspiracy theorist.” However, once again, as if an inside joke, the BBC has run a report on the Taliban and recent deaths that absurdly shows a picture of “Noah,” the child from the Sandy Hook massacre. The image is visible here at 2:03. They might as well have thrown in Elian Goanzalez to boot!
http://investmentwatchblog.com/boom-bbc-busted-using-sandy-hooks-noah-pozner-as-pakistan-massacre-victim/
[craigmurray.org.uk – link to rense.com removed due to anti-Semitic material on the site. example follows:]
Well Technicolour, as stated I am no expert but this Rense article lists the “official” revisionism if you will.
Most pertinent is the following quotation that suggests death certificates were meticulously recorded in the “death books” appropriated by the Soviets:
“The death books consist of 46 volumes which document each death at Auschwitz (each death certificate consists of the deceased person’s full name, profession and religion, date and place of birth, pre-Auschwitz residence, parents’ names, time of death, and cause of death as determined by a camp physician). The records for the most important years, 1942 and 1943, are almost complete (there are also a few volumes for the year 1941, but none for the year 1944 or January 1945 (when Auschwitz was evacuated)).”
[craigmurray.org.uk – link removed – anti-Semitic material at site]
The notion that the Germans didn’t keep records seems very far fetched to me.
!! The BBC……..
Mods
Rense.com is a well know holocaust denial site – you may wish to check with Criag whether he wishes to host such links.
wow, some all night’er Clark, Herbie Ect. I was too tired to really keep up…and then today was too beautiful to stay at home, got some great fotos, and discovered a Obscure new place..Better oot than in is my Motto.
Nevermind
I was reading a good piece on the Ukraine situ the other day, here is some from it –
” It’s the Season of Goodwill – and Western governments are showering us with a medley of their “gifts”. Sanctions, austerity, lethal military aid and red-hot coals of conflict.
Meanwhile, the contrast of Russian humanitarian aid to Ukraine could not be greater or more telling. This week another convoy of trucks from Russia – at least the tenth so far in recent months – is due to arrive in eastern Ukraine, bearing food, clothing, heating and toys for the war-torn children of Luhansk and Donetsk.
Only in the cynical, mean-spirited West would such a juxtaposition of very different Russian conduct be misconstrued.
As the world prepares to celebrate Christmas – an occasion of peace, joy and salvation for humanity – Washington and its allies in Canada and the European Union see fit to unleash more sanctions on Russia, fuel further misery and suffering in Ukraine, and perhaps most perniciously, to stoke conditions for larger war.
Hard-hearted Western rulers just don’t seem to have a redeeming bone in their bodies or cell in their brains…..
” As US President Barack Obama departed from the White House last Friday for Christmas holidays with his family in sunny Hawaii, he bequeathed his signature to a Congress “present” for the Kiev regime. Among the “goodies” are millions of dollars worth of lethal military aid for the regime that seized power in an illegal coup in February this year. That’s not an pejorative opinion about this regime: it is simply an objective fact. Of course, the Western governments and their media would disagree because they are inebriated on their own cocktails of propaganda.
” One wonders if Obama will remember when he is pulling crackers with his daughters around the Christmas dining table that the children of Ukraine will be cringing in fear from the crackle and thud of weapons that his government is funnelling into that country…
” Under the subsequent “leadership” of oligarch Petro Poroshenko and CIA protégé Arseniy Yatsenyuk, along with a cabinet of foreign impostors, the regime has imposed an economic blockade on the people of Luhansk and Donetsk. Unable to win the military war against the people’s self-defence militia, the Kiev Reich has now resorted to a tactic of attrition and collective punishment. That is, more crimes against humanity.
by Finian Cunningham @
https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2014/12/22/season-of-goodwill-west-delivers-sanctions-suffering-and-conflict/#comments
Why wouldn’t the SS commanders of the camps have reported to Berlin on the numbers of people they killed via Enigma machines(so that the Allies could intercept the communications) the way the Einsatzgruppen commanders reported to Berlin how many Jews they had shot during 1941? Had the Germans come to doubt the security of Enigma by 1942?
For those feeling dirty after following Scouse Billy’s (how dare he defame the memory of that good socialist and ardent anti fascist (look at his war record) Bill Shankly by abusing his photograph) link to rense.com
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/topf/
” Why wouldn’t the SS commanders of the camps have reported to Berlin on the numbers of people they killed via Enigma machines(so that the Allies could intercept the communications) the way the Einsatzgruppen commanders reported to Berlin how many Jews they had shot during 1941? ”
Unlike the Einsatzgruppen the camps were static so the commanders would’ve used landlines to communicate with Berlin which unlike radio transmissions could not be intercepted.
Unsurprisingly as the Allies advanced the SS destroyed as many of their incriminating records as they could. Some still survive though.
http://en.auschwitz.org/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&Itemid=31&id=529
RD, I looked at rense.com and could not make out what you were on about, all adverts, a totally mismanaged site, a bit like the last unreliable site you got castigated for.
As to “how dare he defame the memory of that good socialist and ardent anti fascist” your own record on this count is not pristine. You oppose Putin, me too, but for different reasons. You oppose him because you believe he is infiltrating Ukraine. I oppose him because, outside MSM, everybody knows he isn’t, and ought to be. There is now a western-imposed government, in a country that had not seen civil-war since the early days of the Soviet Revolution, before your fascists took control.
I feally do despise fascism. You have a lot to prove.
John, he’s just a troll – don’t give him the time of day.
The argument was that the Germans didn’t keep records which I maintain is preposterous.
No matter the provenance of information and attendant name calling distraction from those that have no case, the Germans kept meticulous records (aided and abetted infamously by IBM let’s not forget).
“RD, I looked at rense.com and could not make out what you were on about, all adverts, a totally mismanaged site, a bit like the last unreliable site you got castigated for.”
Might I suggest you scroll down the page a little and find all the linked articles – I note some of your fascist friends e.g. David Duke are to be found there in abundance. And then enter terms like Holocaust, Rothchilds, Protocols of Zion in the search box.
Unlike yourself I don’t have fascist or racist friends and I most certainly don’t link to their websites – even when drunk. As for the opposition to Putin and his “not” infiltrating the Ukraine – please pass the puke bucket. And if you bother to look I think you will find that the fascists are doing rather better electorally in Putin’s Russia than in the Ukraine.
@ Resident Dissident
The last time you appealed to the mods to censor information because you don’t like the website it came from, I was able to find on the same thread, a website which you had linked to which “encourages discrimination against Arabs, incites violence against other races, showcases people taking pride in so-called racial superiority, and other disgusting examples of sick and depraved ideology.”
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/11/the-trident-test/comment-page-2/#comment-493069
You had to apologise on that occasion. A previous outburst of yours lead to this blog closing for a few weeks.
How about less hypocrisy and more grown up debate, eh? You’re doing what Technicolour did earlier in this thread – waving the big ‘holocaust denial’ stick to stifle honest debate. We’re all grown ups here – let’s sort out our differences without anyone running to the teacher crying “Please Miss, Johnny’s using bad language.”
You really are quite pathetic Scouse Billy or just incredibly stupid – you just ignore what Kempe says or the written evidence that remains.
A node
So why don’t you think Puffing Billy should also apologise for his linking to Rense? I also noticed you stood by quite idly while Christopher Hitchens was being defamed and even added your own little bit as a bonus.
And anyway I think you will find that Craig has in the past removed comments and links on Holocaust denial – and I was only asking the mods to bring the breaching of his previous policy to his attention. Craig has no obligation to publish holocaust denial on his blog if he doesn’t want to that wouldn’t be censorship in the normal meaning of the word.
Thanks for that great link to Finians piece Brian, you have positively put me on to the matt….:) Ukraine is the result of western interference, and teat of a mysterious blindness which has struck the MSM, perverting journalism, distorting history and dim inishiong truth by bombardment with trivia and untruth, provocative statements, wind ups that keep us busy guessing what it was….
As for records, the Japanese vouched for the accuracy of the KGB archive, when it came to considering the amount of Japanese POW’s that lumbered in their prisons were concerned. the discrepancy was in single figures. That will most likely make their figures about the Katyn massacre accurate….he says, hearing the sound of air being sucked in.
On tenterhooks about the discussion on Russian -Iranian cooperation’s re: conversions to nuclear pelleted fuel.
next step can only be the control and regulations of all of the Levant’s nuclear capabilities. Iran is surrounded by multiple nuclear capabilities, a peaceful state that has never attacked anyone in 250 years, and they are willing to cooperate.
Is Israel?
Perhaps those wishing to discuss Holocaust revisionism and denial might wish to acquaint themselves with all the evidence from the Irving vs Lipstadt case when the considerably more intelligent David Irving tried to censor Lipstadt attack on his work and failed miserably
http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/transcripts/
Only once they have they absorbed the detail and have something original to say based on new evidence might we listen to what they have to say.
@ Resident Dissident
You are demanding Scouse Billy is censored for something you have yourself done. That’s hypocrisy.
Please address my point about grown up behaviour on this blog.