This is my last comment for the year as we are off to spend Hogmanay as the guests of an Ambassador in Paris. Out of deference to my family, who have had the brunt of it these last few days, I am definitely not taking the laptop, so I will no longer be able to take part in the popular new bloodsport of proving your loyalty to the SNP by being nasty to Craig Murray.
My parting thought is that, as every year of my entire life, it has been a disastrous one for the Palestinians. Yet more land occupied, settlements built, homes destroyed, olive trees uprooted, shipping vessels sunk and yet another murderous onslaught on Gaza.
I warmly recommend this rare public appearance by Col. Larry Wilkerson, ex-Chief of Staff to Colin Powell and a fellow recipient of the Sam Adams Award for Integrity. His brief musings here on Israel and Syria come from a deep store of knowledge and a razor-sharp intellect.
Do have a wonderful celebration. The future will be good. We are closer to a transformational change in society than you may realise.
Don’t forget that we are also electing District councillors this year May. This costs you nothing but taking in fresh air and exercise for legs and yaw muscles.
maybe our multiple posters here trying to subterfuge their issues for what is current and acute, hallo RD and Anon, should get going now and try an put their eclectic views and suggestions into practise.
It would be stunning to read the minutes on how RD convinced his local council that Ukrainian fascists are not really as bad as the fascists we know of past and, in the case of Anon, how we should change the tax regimes for non dom’s….
Off course, that Moazzam Begg, an innocent man, could be hounded for years by police and courts, when there was evidence that he was innocent, available by certain actors who seemingly can override the cause of law at a whimsy.
All that is not very interesting to RD, he love’s his sixth form issues, all the flares, young people marching at night and the sound of hobnail boots.
move to Ukraine why don’t you, Svoboda will love your revisionist interpretations.
Really quite pathetic Nevermind. More than happy to talk domestic politics with anyone who wants a sensible conversation on these matters. You of course ignore the issue of Putin’s long running interference in Ukrainian affairs. There are plenty of Ukrainians who share my disdain for Svoboda – as witnessed by the fall in their vote at the last election. Do you really think that people such as Andrey Kurkov, an ethnic Russian hold a flag for the fascists?
@Mark Golding – its really very simple, ALL THAT ENERGY (that turned the towers to dust and molten metal) in MID AIR did not come from some aviation fuel. It may be Kempe forgot some nuclear matzoballs in the lift shafts on his last NY sightseeing trip !!
TonyM: 2.16 am
“My understanding is that the German staff and guards had little to do with the actual running of the camps, had minimal contact with those held, day to day matters were almost entirely in the hands of the prisoners themselves, discipline, punishment, supply or with-holding of food, and tolerable accommodation, power over life or death, selection for work of differing degrees of unpleasantness, administration of ‘justice’ and all such matters, was largely in the hands of a highly stratified and ruthless internal tyranny run by and comprising of prisoners themselves, compared with whom the German staff or guards might have seemed to some a far lesser terror.”
Well, that clears that up. I hope all of you encouraging and supporting what was clearly behind the lack of substantiated links and the one out of context quote from Hitchens feel thoroughly ashamed.
And you are ignoring the interference of the US state department and the EU in Ukraine’s affairs since 2004, at least, RD. an apologetic and bemusing stance in favour of fascism.
Tech
What clears what up?
As I demonstrated repeatedly the Hitchens quoation was fine.
When he said:
“These are, however, the now-undisputed findings of all historians and experts on the subject.”
He means precisely that.
It is his assesssment of where mainstream and revisionist historians agree.
His own words.
There’s nothing you can say that will change that simple fact.
The reason this is important is because when TonyM first posted the quotation you assumed it came from someone like David Irving. When TonyM then showed that these were Hitchens words you set about a campaign which involved twisting those words, in the process making a complete fool of yourself.
You were unsuccessful in ascribing other meaning to those words.
Initially I assumed you were just misreading. You have a bit of a repuation for that as any long termer here will readily attest.
But, having had the matter explained to you in detail, I can no longer give you the benefit of that doubt.
My view now is your persistance in face of all the evidence indicates that you are being blatantly and deliberately dishonest.
Not ignoring just getting in proportion I’m afraid. Quite frankly you haven’t got a clue about fascism – a bit like many of your chums here.
David Irving was himself the party who brought suit. He was seeking to have Lipstadt punished for having called him a Holocaust denier. That is to say, he was seeking to limit free expression. And he lost his case.
That is very different from seeking to shut up people who are accused of Holocaust denial. Even if Holocaust denial, properly defined, is clearly false, people should be free to utter falsehoods. And since those who seek to limit discussion on these matters have defined Holocaust denial as broadly as they can get away with, they may even succeed in prohibiting statements that in fact are historically true.
Only if people are free to discuss historical matters can there be any hope of getting to historical truth. Free debate can be relied upon to discredit clear historical falsehoods.
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Lysais 11.51pm
Very well put, I couldn’t have explained it any better myself, when people are not free to discuss, historical matters due to fear of persecution, it only throws more light onto that subject as to why, an open and free discussion is punishable.
After all we only seek the truth do we not.
“RoS Did you see my earlier link to the spoof version? The original was asking to be ridiculed as is Agent Cameron.
Conservative election campaign poster – original and improved version; any more?”
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Sorry Mary I missed your earlier version, just saw it now, thanks for posting.
“The reason this is important is because when TonyM first posted the quotation you assumed it came from someone like David Irving. When TonyM then showed that these were Hitchens words you set about a campaign which involved twisting those words, in the process making a complete fool of yourself.”
No she didn’t she specifically made the point that they were from Hitchens and quoted him from later on in the same essay. Perhaps it is you who are twisting words yet again.
Germans never had any ideas of fascism, you’re a far better fascist that we ever had, Radolf
Herbie: you are wrong. Go back and look. I did not ‘assume the quote came from Irving’. I asked for evidence for TonyM’s assertion that Hoess’ entire testimony and writings had been discredited, except from Irving, and was given the Hitchens quote.
Not surprising, as otherwise the ‘evidence’ comes from sites which are banned on this blog.
So you’re wrong. What were you saying about me again? Pfft.
“No she didn’t she specifically made the point that they were from Hitchens and quoted him from later on in the same essay.”
She twisted Hitchens words when it was confirmed that they were from Hitchens.
But initially she assumed they were from someone like Irving.
As I said.
The record will confirm.
Resident Dissident: Just to correct another of A nodes lies. No I don’t [identify with some of the sentiments expressed on the JTA website]– which is why I apologised for linking to the JTA website without hesitation when you brought those sentiments to light.
Delighted to hear it. One of today’s JTA op-eds argues :
“The Palestinian position is, of course, absurd. “Settlement construction” and “humiliation” are not incitement. Just because the Palestinians don’t like Jews building homes in Jerusalem (“settlement construction”) or Palestinians being checked for weapons at security checkpoints (“humiliation”) doesn’t make it incitement.”
To avoid any more accusations of hypocrisy, would you please confirm your support for the Palestinian position and condemn such Israeli actions.
I’m not wrong, Tech.
Your first reponse when TonyM posts the quotation is:
“Tony M: no, and if your source is David Irving, don’t bother, thanks.”
TonyM then confirms that the quotation is from Hitchens.
Then you begin twisting Hitchens words.
This also establishes the fact that the quotation only becomes an issue for you when it’s made clear they are in fact Hitchens words and not from someone easily dismissable like Irving etc.
Craig, you have made some monumentally crass and insensitive postings here over the years, and you are – sorry if this offends – a pompous, posh tit, and an arriviste, carpet-bagger to boot. That’s why you didn’t get selected. Other, more suitable candidates than you, have been working on the ground in potential SNP gain areas (and in less rewarding areas) for many years.
You’re still a wonderful campaigner: honest, full of integrity, and courageous about what you believe is right. That doesn’t mean you’re always right though.
I have to agree with Meg. You will never achieve elected office as an MP/MSP. Never. You don’t have it in you to support the valid claims of your political opponents, and you never will. In that sense you’re a kind of bigot. You’re stuck in your views and can’t see any other views as even potentially valid.
The SNP were quite right to treat you as they did, and you should, and would, have known this if you had political acumen.
Nevertheless, best of luck to you in the autumn of your career. Welcome to Scotland – I believe you spent a short spell here in your youth. Make the most of our mountains and our whisky, and have a good retirement!
Those Tory B*stards just can’t tell the truth, when questioned over a new Tory campaign poster showing a long straight road, with the slogan “Lets stay on the road to a stronger economy.”
Gideon “Chancer of the Exchequer” Osborne, said “The road is definitely in the UK”, on further questioning Osborne replied, Ah, I’m sure its a composite of UK roads.”
It turns out the road in the campaign poster is actually in Germany, near Weimar ,and the photographer is a German man named Alexander Burzik, who took the picture on 2008.
Those Tory tossers just don’t have it in them to tell the truth.
http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk/
One of Margaret Thatcher’s closest confidantes raped a teenage boy 30 years ago but escaped justice when Scotland Yard covered up the crime, it has been alleged.
Police are investigating claims that Sir Peter Morrison lured the 14-year-old to London and sexually abused him in a guesthouse reportedly used by a Westminster paedophile ring.
A former Conservative minister, Morrison was first exposed as a serial child abuser in 1998, three years after he died from a heart attack. But the MP for Chester was never charged with any crime during his lifetime.
Speaking to The Telegraph, the alleged victim, now aged 46, said he and his family reported Morrison to Scotland Yard in 1982, hours after the teenager had escaped the MP’s clutches.
Yet after he gave a statement and was examined by doctors, the family say they heard nothing for months.
Finally, the boy’s father says he was informed by Scotland Yard that the abuser had been sent to prison for assaulting his son, and that no further action was needed.
However it was only years later, the family claim, that they discovered the culprit’s true identity. They then discovered Morrison had never in fact been jailed for any crime, and that police had apparently duped them into dropping the allegation.
He is now preparing to take legal action against the force, who he claims “hushed the whole thing up.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11323146/Thatcher-confidant-raped-boy-and-police-covered-crime-up.html
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I don’t know who’s the most corrupt, the Den of Iniquity aka Westminster, or London’s Metropolitan Police force.
Are you this Neil Barker?
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/06/i_hate_and_desp/#comment-292231
Anything come of that, eh?
Perhaps you could some advice to Red Diss on the tort of defamation.
Nursery school staff and registered childminders must report toddlers at risk of becoming terrorists, under counter-terrorism measures proposed by the Government.
The directive is contained in a 39-page consultation document issued by the Home Office in a bid to bolster its Prevent anti-terrorism plan.
Critics said the idea was “unworkable” and “heavy-handed”, and accused the Government of treating teachers and carers as “spies”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11323558/Anti-terror-plan-to-spy-on-toddlers-is-heavy-handed.html
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Another step on the road to an Orwellian Society.
By 10:30 am on Tuesday morning of December 30, Palestinian children attending school near Qeitun checkpoint in al-Khalil (Hebron) had endured over forty tear gas canisters, multiple rounds of rubber coated steel bullets and stun grenades, and the arrest of a twelve-year-old boy.
Israeli forces fired down the road leading from the checkpoint to the schools, filling the street adjacent to the schools with a choking cloud of gas and preventing Palestinians walking through the checkpoint from continuing down the street.
As it is exam season in al-Khalil’s schools, children were attempting to reach school between seven and eight am and leaving again between nine thirty and eleven.
Israeli military forces kept up a sporadic barrage of fire from the time some children were still walking to school until after school finished, forcing anyone traveling in either direction to brave whistling tear gas canisters and the dizzying smoke which still lingered even after the shooting had halted.
Keep Reading:
http://www.imemc.org/article/70169
Or alternatively watch the fascists at work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlWJrA87x3E#t=55
Oklahoma lawmakers are considering a bill that would ban wearing a mask, hood or other types of face covering in the state’s public spaces. If the bill passes, it would join similar bans in other states.
http://rt.com/usa/219499-oklahoma-lawmakers-ban-hoodies/
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Yet another step on the road to an Orwellian Society.
Stop hoods to aid facial recognition, thus identifying legitimate protesters, who will then be beaten or prosecuted for airing an opinion, in the great democratic country of America.
ISIS and Israel are working together to counter Assad …”Fourthly, in 2013 Israel granted oil exploration licenses in the Syrian-claimed Golan Heights, spelling “potential for another armed conflict between the two parties should substantial hydrocarbon resources be discovered.”
According to a report to the UN Security Council in early December, Israel has been in regular contact with Syrian rebels, including Islamic State fighters, raising the question of Israel’s role in supporting anti-Assad extremists to cement its control of Golan’s potential fossil fuel resources.”
There have been reports that ISIS fighters are being treated by Israel. A doctor in the field only can give out first aid , there has to be a facility in which extensive care is provided. Egypt ,Iraq,Syria nor Turkey is providing this care.
Also, funding of thousands of men require vast amount of resources and tight network . How is ISIS able to accomplish this in very short time? Obama had said for few years American weapons had been “leaked” to ISIS, he surely can think the public is that stupid.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=349_1420264405#DjAgWZmXBbLvH29s.99
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I don’t doubt for one minute those maniacal murderers, are aiding and abetting IS, along with the US and Saudi Arabia.
On Friday, American security personnel accompanying staff from the United States Consulate in Jerusalem drew their weapons on violent Israeli settlers who attacked a two vehicle U.S. convoy outside the Palestinian town of Turmusaya in the West Bank.
Consulate staff were investigating an incident which took place on private Palestinian land on the first night of 2015 when six thousand recently planted olive saplings were uprooted, and dozens of old olive trees were destroyed by violent Jewish settlers from an illegal outpost, Adei Ad, near Turmusaya.
Officials from Turmusaya notified the U.S. consulate in Jerusalem and requested an investigation because some of the owners of the land are Palestinian-Americans. When the U.S. delegation arrived in the area to investigate settlers started hurling stones at the convoy.
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/israeli-settlers-consulate
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Those mentally deranged settlers think they can get away with just about anything they want to.
Remember them dragging sofa’s onto a hill to watch Israeli jets pound Gaza, whilst they laughed and drank beer.
TonyM then confirms that the quotation is from Hitchens.
The record shows that TonyM’s original quotation was not from Hitchens – only the subsequent one after the challenge from Technicolour – stop twisting
Here is the original quotation from Tony M
“Technicolour, if you’re around: I’m sure you’re aware that the ‘admissions’ of Hoess were made under the severest torture by British and Soviet ‘investigators’, he was several times beaten nearly to death and his family (wife and young child) threatened with deportation to Siberia. Most of his testimony, probably all of it, then, and even more so in later years were proved to be preposterous fabrications of his interrogators. His ‘memoirs’ clumsy post-war Soviet fabrications.”
This most definitely was not from Hitchens – but perhaps you or Tony M could come clean on the source.
A node
Sorry to disappoint you but I’m against illegal settlements – but not against the Israelis checking for weapons at security passports, which is perfectly legitimate given past history (how they go about the checks may be another matter)
Sandy Hook child photo shown as a dead child at the Pakistani massacre, on Dec 16th this year.
http://ww w.prisonplanet.com/mystery-sandy-hook-victim-dies-again-in-pakistan.html
The child is Noah Pozner, supposedly killed at Sandy Hook Dec 2012
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Meanwhile, Pakistan intends to alter its constitution, on the back of the Peshawar attack.
Which may not be what it appears to be.
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Pakistan’s political leaders have decided to amend the constitution to form an alternative military court system that will try alleged terrorists and extremists following the deadly Peshawar school attack.
A unanimous agreement by the country’s civilian political and military leadership to alter the constitution in order to form the alternative court system was achieved during the meeting headed by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.
“The bill will be presented in the National Assembly on Saturday and in the Senate on Tuesday and after it is passed by the two houses of parliament, it will become part of the Constitution,” Minister for Information Pervaiz Rashid told the press, adding that the Army Act will also be amended
“Germans never had any ideas of fascism, you’re a far better fascist that we ever had, Radolf”
Infantile – for the infant lets us just say that Nazism was fascism with added racism – any further debate would be futile.
Over the last week, more publications, including Zero Hedge, have started reporting on a still developing nuclear problem at the largest nuclear plant in Europe. This news has been widely circulated in Eastern Europe over the last few weeks.
The problem in Ukraine has been and remains verification: Ukrainian sources have not been forthcoming. When this first occurred I was contacted through a second party and told directly after the officially reported transformer incident that a radiation spike was observed in Crimea, which is 140km away from the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant.
The spike was small against background radiation but noticeable on a geiger counter. I was also given hacked files of the emergency conversation that happened at the plant that day. They are included at the bottom of the article. The proximity to what is coming to light means they cannot be ignored.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/catastrophe-at-ukraines-zaporozhye-nuclear-power-plant/5422212
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We all know what happened the last time Ukraine had a nuclear power station problem, just in case you have forgotten Chernobyl power plant had a meltdown in 1986.
Not so long ago Fukushima power plant in Japan, also suffered a catastrophic meltdown.
The current nuclear power plant in Ukraine, the Zaporozhye, is the largest in Europe.
It’s not a quotation, RD, it’s entirely original composition, drawing on recall of a number of sources, Hitchens included. Perhaps you’d like to takeup with Technicolour the source(s) of their now proven wrong information, that they they made be amended or qualified, in the hope that others won’t be taken in by such half-truths, falsehoods and one-sided partial accounts.