The Independent have Jack Straw well and truly cornered:
Writing in the Mail on Sunday, Craig Murray, who was sacked as UK ambassador to Uzbekistan in 2004 after alleging that Britain used intelligence obtained by the CIA under torture, said he attended a meeting at the Foreign Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and claimed this policy came directly from Mr Straw.
The former Foreign Secretary said: “At all times I was scrupulous in seeking to carry out my duties in accordance with the law. I hope to be able to say more about this at an appropriate stage in the future.”
I hope so too, and I hope that the appropriate time is either at the Old Bailey or The Hague.
Straw has climbed down a bit from his days of power and glory, when he told the House of Commons, immediately after sacking me, that there was no such thing as the CIA extraordinary rendition programme and its existence was “Mr Murray’s opinion.” He no longer claims it did not exist and he no longer claims I am a fantasist. He now merely claims he was not breaking the law.
His claim of respect for the law is a bit dubious in the light of Sir Michael Wood’s evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry. Wood said that as Foreign Office Legal Adviser, he and his elite team of in-house FCO international lawyers unanimously advised Straw the invasion of Iraq would be an illegal war of aggression. Straw’s response? He wrote to the Attorney General requesting that Sir Michael be dismissed and replaced. And forced Goldsmith to troop out to Washington and get alternative advice from Bush’s nutjob Republican neo-con lawyers.
Jack Straw did not have any desire to act legally. He had a desire to be able to mount a legal defence of his illegal actions. That is a different thing.
Should any of us live to see the publication of the Chilcot Report, this will doubtless be clear, though probably as a footnote to page 862 of Annex VII. That is how the Westminster establishment works.
The SNP has weighed in on the side of the angels:
Revelations by the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan of the UK’s knowledge and acceptance of torture must see those involved answer questions on what happened.
In an article in the Mail on Sunday, Mr Murray reveals that he attended a meeting at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and revealed that this policy came directly from Jack Straw.
Mr Murray also reveals that “there was a deliberate policy of not writing down anything… because there should not be evidence of the policy.”
Craig Murray also states that “for the past year the British Ambassador in Washington and his staff have regularly been lobbying the US authorities not to reveal facts about the UK’s involvement in the CIA torture programme” and claims that is one of the reasons the full Senate report has not been published.
The SNP has called for a full judicial inquiry to be set up as a matter of urgency to get to get to the truth of who knew what and when.
Commenting, SNP Westminster Leader Angus Robertson MP said:
“Mr Murray’s revelation of the attitude taken by then Foreign Secretary Jack Straw only adds to the urgency with which we need a full judicial inquiry.
“Craig Murray’s article lifts the lid on the UK’s role in the human rights abuses that the US Senate has reported on and there can be no more attempts to avoid answering the tough questions that have been posed.
“Clearly answers are needed just as much from the politicians who led us at the time as from those directly involved in what was going on. The need for an independent judicial inquiry is now clear for all to see.
“It is also long past time that the findings of the Chilcot inquiry were published and there can be no more delays to that report being made public.
“There needs to be a full judicial inquiry to get to the bottom of the UK’s involvement in rendition flights that passed through UK territory and the UK’s wider knowledge of the abuses that the Senate has revealed.”
Craig Murray’s revelations can be viewed on page 25 of today’s Mail on Sunday
But with Malcolm Rifkind being promoted everywhere by the BBC to push his cover-up, it remains an uphill struggle.
Bahraini regime’s security forces have once again engaged in fierce clashes with a group of protesters, using teargas canisters and rubber bullets to disperse them.
The Saudi-backed Bahraini forces attacked protesters in the village of Nuwaidrat, situated about 10 kilometers (six miles) south of the capital, Manama, as well as the village of Muqabah on Tuesday.
One demonstrator was wounded in Nuwaidrat when a teargas canister hit him in the head.
In Muqabah, people took to the streets, chanting anti-regime slogans and calling on the Al Khalifah ruling family to step down
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/17/390599/bahrain-regime-forces-attack-protesters/
………………………..
I wonder if David Cameron, has as much sympathy for the Bahraini people, as he does for the people of Pakistan
““No, like all the other imperialists that drove out or enslaved the indigenous population, they did that centuries ago to steal land and resources. Oil (petrodollars) is what they want to keep their greedy hands on now.”
What oil would that be John? The oil and gas around the Falklands?”
Emboldening does not help your case one little bit. It is clear by the centuries ago it meant Argentina. And the ‘now’ is precisely that, what they’re doing now.
A little summary of Iain Orr’s position.
Even though he was working for the FCO in a senior position, he was unaware that World Headline events, the War on Terror and the invasion of Iraq had changed the ground rules for torture because of Blair and Straw’s acceptance of the George Bush torture program.
He hadn’t noticed any change and his employers hadn’t informed him. He wasn’t doing the type of work that related to torture and it didn’t interest him.
That is why, whenever he submits a comment to this CM blog, he always frames it within the Blair/Straw FCO guidelines. This he feels is neither being subversive to CM nor is it being a hindrance to debate on current events such as Ukraine.
I have explained to him that the only way that we can hold our governments to account is by exposing them at every turn. This way they build up form and we do not have to reconstruct all the issues from nothing.
I actually think it’s hilarious that the old fogey spends his retirement re-spinning old yarns, re-mummifying the dead, and re-inforcing the sense of powerlessness we are supposed to feel as people.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=operation+gladio&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSYxphCxCo1NgEGgAMCxCwjKcIGjwKOggCEhTOE9sTsA6oE64Tnh3wEusSyResEhog7A_14jud_1Kq_1IecfLfcUJrRDElVJvV9aTcLtahwbxdcUMCxCOrv4IGgoKCAgBEgS523x7DA&sa=X&ei=FumRVIPRNfaPsQSe3oC4Aw&ved=0CB4Qwg4oAA&biw=1024&bih=610
Charming.
“It is clear by the centuries ago it meant Argentina.” — John Goss
Nope.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands#History
(I have to leave you now. I have visitors arriving from overseas tomorrow for Christmas. And I’m not entirely ready.)
‘night
A broken clock is right twice a day. Corrupt politicians make the other 10% look bad. Henry Kissinger.
RoS
In other words:
Politeness cost nothing you mixed obscenities old cow.
“All kinds of sects make their way to and through Pakistan, the west has operated out of it, as well, do we really know for sure who killed these people, it may not be who we think it is.
Its worth keeping an open mind.”
I totally agree. I have to make 72 excuses for my Muslim brothers, and you have put your finger on the main one.
Revenge for recent advances by the Pakistan army against the Taliban was the suggestion of the BBC. That would be excuse no. 2.
i.e the fact that it emanated from the lying BBC
Mr Goss
“Rapallo paved the way for trade between Germany and Russia”
and
“the German Junkers company secretly establishes an aircraft factory at Fili in the Soviet Union.[22]” Wikipedia.”
____________________
Is either of the above two squibs from your post meant to prove that Rapallo was a “secret” Treaty, Mr Goss?
I see the mention of a secret factory, not a secret Treaty.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A John Goss Moment within a John Goss Moment?
Pressure builds re SIC torture report. Then we have the Sydney siege. And then the Peshawar massacre. Now there’s some good news on the Cuba front to wash away all the shit.
If there isn’t some false flag/news management angle in that lot, my hat’s going under the grill.
RoS
“At 10:23:54 p.m. on Thursday, a member rose to ask “unanimous consent” for four committees to be relieved of a Russia sanctions bill. At this point the motion, and the legislation, could have been blocked by a single member who would say “I object.” No one objected, because no one was watching for last-minute bills to be slipped through.”
Now you know? The full bastard nastiness of the Westminster machine.
I am truly blessed today:
” I am warning that if further misrepresentations come from the keyboard of Habbabkuk, like the Joe Stalin and Soviet shit I shall be asking the mods to do something”
BAWAWAWAWA
I nominate the above as an “Honorary John Goss Moment” !
Mike
I’ve just wired up a keema nan pizza grill. Send it to me.
Dreoilin
17 Dec, 2014 – 8:41 pm
“(I have to leave you now. I have visitors arriving from overseas tomorrow for Christmas. And I’m not entirely ready.)”
……………………………………………………………………………….
Is one of your Christmas visitors Habbabkuk by any chance?
Excellent new post by Charles Crawford on his blog.
Bon appétit et bonne digestion!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~”Events in Russia’s economy are accelerating in the wrong direction. No doubt at some point things will pick up again. But for now the trends are ghastly.
Amidst all the analysis of what is ‘really’ causing the rouble to slump, this one by James Miller reads well:
What is the primary reason Russia’s currency is in free fall? In order to reach this answer we have to keep in mind a basic concept — factors keeping the Russian economy from recovering may not be the same factors as what caused it to become ill. The broken hip didn’t cause the fall down the stairs, but it’s going to make it impossible to get back up.
For the moment, we’ll look at the longer-term trends, not the last two days of rapid decline…
Putin has also been pursuing a reckless game of economic protectionism. Putin’s pet project and alternative to the European Union, the Eurasian Customs Union, has failed to attract most former-Soviet states. In response to a group of Russia’s neighbors making plans to sign EU association agreements (including, of course, Ukraine), Putin spent much of 2013 waging trade wars: banning certain imports, closing borders, passing new tariffs… as it turns out, while Putin was using these tactics to bully countries into joining the Customs Union, investors don’t like trade wars.
Despite booming energy prices, Russia’s economy was looking at the strong possibility of a recession at the start of 2014. This should have been a time where Russia’s economy was on the rise, thus creating a hedge against future bad news.
Then Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea, moves which gave Russia control of territory which is not self-sufficient and cost money to take over in the first place. And then, yes, there were sanctions. But it turns out that investors like real wars even less than trade wars. Even before sanctions, or the drop in oil prices, Russia’s stock indices and the value of the ruble were starting to decline. By the time oil started to drop, the writing was already on the wall. But as long as oil is this low, or dropping, there is virtually no chance for the Putin administration to turn things around. This is one reason why the Russian economy is falling faster than the price of oil — even if oil stabilizes, which it may not, Putin’s policies have done their damage…
In summary, Putin’s policies left the Russian economy unprepared for the day energy prices declined, his policies spooked investors at the worst possible time, and his policies have failed to stop the bleeding.
Read the whole thing. Lots of vivid graphs.
So, questions. Faced with this omnishambles of Siberian proportions, will the teensy inner Russian top elite behave more or less rationally? Is it in our interests to extend the hand of friendship and good faith (yet again) even if we can not be sure that the Snarling Bear won’t bite it?
Along comes our old friend Angus Roxburgh. Yes, IT’S ALL OUR FAULT:
To keep repeating the same mistake again and again and expecting different results is, as they say, a sign of madness. And if by doing so you punish only ordinary Russian people, then it is also cruel – and counterproductive. Twenty years ago the dream was to rescue the former communist world and bring prosperity and democracy to its people. What we are doing now is impoverishing and alienating the Russians.
We can, of course, stick to our guns and insist that “sanctions are having an effect”. But what will we gain if the only effect is to destroy the Russian economy? Perhaps the hope is to destabilise the country so much that Putin is overthrown. (I detect much schadenfreude among observers, who desperately hope a collapse of the Russian economy will bring about Putin’s fall.) If so, it is a highly dangerous game of chance. Pouring fuel on Kremlin clan wars that we barely understand would be the height of folly. We have no idea what the outcome might be – and it could be much worse than what we have at present.
Or perhaps the hope is that the Russian people, ground down into poverty and despair, will rise up against the Kremlin and install a government of the west’s choosing. Dream on!
It has long been my contention that we should deal with the causes of Putin’s aggressive behaviour, not the symptoms. There is a way to bring him back into the fold (always assuming that anyone actually wishes to do so any more), but it will require fresh ideas that are utterly unappealing to most of the west’s leaders. It will take bold and imaginative thinking, not kneejerk reactions and the false logic of piling on ever tougher sanctions.
All of which takes us back to a question I posed a few years ago: is Russia an Animal, a Vegetable or a Mineral? What exactly are we dealing with? What are the ’causes’ of Putin’s ‘aggressive behaviour’?
Some of us might think that the key causes lie deep in the Soviet communist lies and propaganda that Putin absorbed in his KGB training. Yegor Gaidar, who helped set Russia on the path to modernity, agrees:
“27-28% of Russians would vote for Stalin if he were alive today. This is a man who killed more of our fellow countrymen than anyone else in the long and complex history of Russia”
This is the true existential problem for Russia. This is the overwhelming ’cause’ of Putin’s aggressive behaviour and his systemic failure to bring Russia sensibly into the modern global economy. Huge numbers of its people are trapped in a sprawling national death cult.
There is nothing whatsoever that we can do about this, other than lend some carbon-friendly machinery to help demolish the evil Lenin Mausoleum in Red Square. They need to deal with it themselves, while the rest of us do what we can to defend ourselves against the madness.
In other words, in this situation it is not easy to decide how best to deploy Roxburgh’s ‘bold and imaginative thinking’. But why should the onus be on us to deploy it?
If Putin pulled all Russian troops and violent meddlers out of Ukraine once and for all and allowed normal political and economic processes to take place there (including Crimea), the situation would be transformed for the better in hours. That would create the psychological space for starting to look calmly at some new European security arrangements that all can accept. And even look at friendly measures to help Russia’s economy get back to something approaching normal.”
Habbabkuk (La Vita È Shita )
Do you ever ask yourself who has stored enough oil to break the oil market and what the price of oil will go back to after they have achieved their rouble misery?
Your very own Islamic State mafia boss, Bibi.
“If Putin pulled all Russian troops and violent meddlers out of Ukraine once and for all and allowed normal political and economic processes to take place there (including Crimea), the situation would be transformed for the better in hours.”
That’s it. I’m going to the shed, saddle up the reindeer, stick all the boxes of junk in the back and drop everything down the people’s chimneys.
What planet does Crawford come from? FCKO Land?
Welcome to FCKO Land. We are delighted to see you. In FCKO Land we offer a wide variety of Entrtainment.
Welcome to FCKO Land. We are delighted to see you. In FCKO Land we offer a wide variety of Entrtainment.
Welcome to FCKO Land. We are delighted to see you. In FCKO Land we offer a wide variety of Entrtainment.
A list of the blue and yellow tories who voted for the retention of the bedroom tax.
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1418844822.html
“At 10:23:54 p.m. on Thursday, a member rose to ask “unanimous consent” for four committees to be relieved of a Russia sanctions bill. At this point the motion, and the legislation, could have been blocked by a single member who would say “I object.” No one objected, because no one was watching for last-minute bills to be slipped through.”
“Now you know? The full bastard nastiness of the Westminster machine.”
—————————–
Giyane
Actually the above comment is with regards to the American government, but I agree with you the “Den of Iniquity” aka Westminster is also corrupt to the core.
I and many residents of Scotland do not see or recognise Westminster as our government, Holyrood is our government.
Sort of off topic. But eyewitness testimony of the torture of an entire population, so relevant really.
“My time in Gaza during Israel’s terrifying massacre: Operation Protective Edge.”
This lady from London was in Gaza during the Israeli military assault last summer. She explains how Israel is a fundamentally racist society in the first vid. And then explains how she witnessed genocidal attacks on the people.
Terrifying and heartbreaking. She even manages to shut up the Artist Taxi Driver for most of the time. No mean feat
http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2014/09/03/watch-the-artist-taxi-driver-interviews-scriptonite-on-her-time-in-gazaunderattack/
“Related posts” at the end show links to the blogs that she wrote when she was in Gaza.
I would add more Giyane however I will not tickle horsemeat or CMG establishment offal.
Habbakuk: I did in fact appreciate your debunking of the attempt by Republic Of Scotland to smear all immigrants with the same hysterical brush. Indeed, the limited sample of 179 cases referred to one person who had stabbed someone in their own country, rather than the idea that ‘we’ were letting in dozens of foreign murderers.
Look again at Curtis?
Mr Goss
Well at least we now know where all your Stalin shit comes from: E. H. Carr’s multi-volume classic “A History of the Soviet Revolution”.
You could have of course got the title right – but we know of course know where you got your Holodomor denial from – and I suppose you were happy with his view that dekulakisation was a necessary measure and in the past I daresay you even agreed with Carr’s angry denial of Katyn and other Stalinist excesses.
BTW I am still owed a apology for your racist slur of myself.
Dreoilin, I’m sure you think in your own mind that you have a case but the centuries ago when imperialists were usurping for their Kings, Queens and Emperors great tracts of land to enrich the thrones, had nothing to do with the Falklands which at best had a few settlers and various subsequent fights for ownership. My comment related to Argantina which Habbabkuk had referred to with “Yes, the Argentine dictatorship (remember it, Mr Goss? You know, the guys who threw left wingers out of helicopters over the South Atlantic) showed immaculate timing in invading the Falklands* just when they did.” I was answering the Argentina history and it cannot be clearer with “drove out or enslaved the indigenous population”. As I wrote it I had in mind the film “The Mission” where the Catholic Church had sent out missionaries. You can call me a liar, but that is the truth because I had only recently watched that film.
Hope you have a good time with your guests and a Happy Christmas.
Such a shame that good people on the same side try to pull each other apart on matters of ego. On a historic thread about torture as well!
I hope that Blair’s latter-day claim to be even more anti-torture than Habby gets close scrutiny in the British media.
Resident Dissident, I gave you one apology after you apologised to me, because I realised it was uncomfortable for you to be forced by your own duplicity to apologise. I now regret that. E. H. Carr was a scholar.
“E. H. Carr was a scholar.”
___________________
as well as one of the Soviet Union’s useful idiots.
Mods, can you please have a look at this comment by Habbabkuk.
17 Dec, 2014 – 8:56 pm
And this by Resident Dissident who has suddenly appeared from nowhere to support Habbabkuk, though wisely not on his Falklands misrepresentation.
17 Dec, 2014 – 10:47 pm
“I hope that Blair’s latter-day claim to be even more anti-torture than Habby gets close scrutiny in the British media.”
Indeed, Peacewisher. If the trolls had control, imagine their delight at denying us the freedom to speak while they demand we respect their rights.
It’s what fascists or recidivist criminals do.
I found it interesting to read, earlier in this thread, about how “against torture” the European Union has always been.
So they meekly support a vile regime like this:
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/09/30/ukra-s30.html
http://www.kmbz.com/UN-Spreads-Blame-for-Torture-Indiscriminate-Killin/20529071
Daily Mail: I saw British agents at secret torture sites, says boss of CIA’s brutal interrogation programme.
CBS: Most Americans think torture is an effective in eliciting useful information from terrorist suspects and 49% approve of the use of torture.
We really are the Nazis this time. Vive Putin!