The Independent have Jack Straw well and truly cornered:
Writing in the Mail on Sunday, Craig Murray, who was sacked as UK ambassador to Uzbekistan in 2004 after alleging that Britain used intelligence obtained by the CIA under torture, said he attended a meeting at the Foreign Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and claimed this policy came directly from Mr Straw.
The former Foreign Secretary said: “At all times I was scrupulous in seeking to carry out my duties in accordance with the law. I hope to be able to say more about this at an appropriate stage in the future.”
I hope so too, and I hope that the appropriate time is either at the Old Bailey or The Hague.
Straw has climbed down a bit from his days of power and glory, when he told the House of Commons, immediately after sacking me, that there was no such thing as the CIA extraordinary rendition programme and its existence was “Mr Murray’s opinion.” He no longer claims it did not exist and he no longer claims I am a fantasist. He now merely claims he was not breaking the law.
His claim of respect for the law is a bit dubious in the light of Sir Michael Wood’s evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry. Wood said that as Foreign Office Legal Adviser, he and his elite team of in-house FCO international lawyers unanimously advised Straw the invasion of Iraq would be an illegal war of aggression. Straw’s response? He wrote to the Attorney General requesting that Sir Michael be dismissed and replaced. And forced Goldsmith to troop out to Washington and get alternative advice from Bush’s nutjob Republican neo-con lawyers.
Jack Straw did not have any desire to act legally. He had a desire to be able to mount a legal defence of his illegal actions. That is a different thing.
Should any of us live to see the publication of the Chilcot Report, this will doubtless be clear, though probably as a footnote to page 862 of Annex VII. That is how the Westminster establishment works.
The SNP has weighed in on the side of the angels:
Revelations by the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan of the UK’s knowledge and acceptance of torture must see those involved answer questions on what happened.
In an article in the Mail on Sunday, Mr Murray reveals that he attended a meeting at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and revealed that this policy came directly from Jack Straw.
Mr Murray also reveals that “there was a deliberate policy of not writing down anything… because there should not be evidence of the policy.”
Craig Murray also states that “for the past year the British Ambassador in Washington and his staff have regularly been lobbying the US authorities not to reveal facts about the UK’s involvement in the CIA torture programme” and claims that is one of the reasons the full Senate report has not been published.
The SNP has called for a full judicial inquiry to be set up as a matter of urgency to get to get to the truth of who knew what and when.
Commenting, SNP Westminster Leader Angus Robertson MP said:
“Mr Murray’s revelation of the attitude taken by then Foreign Secretary Jack Straw only adds to the urgency with which we need a full judicial inquiry.
“Craig Murray’s article lifts the lid on the UK’s role in the human rights abuses that the US Senate has reported on and there can be no more attempts to avoid answering the tough questions that have been posed.
“Clearly answers are needed just as much from the politicians who led us at the time as from those directly involved in what was going on. The need for an independent judicial inquiry is now clear for all to see.
“It is also long past time that the findings of the Chilcot inquiry were published and there can be no more delays to that report being made public.
“There needs to be a full judicial inquiry to get to the bottom of the UK’s involvement in rendition flights that passed through UK territory and the UK’s wider knowledge of the abuses that the Senate has revealed.”
Craig Murray’s revelations can be viewed on page 25 of today’s Mail on Sunday
But with Malcolm Rifkind being promoted everywhere by the BBC to push his cover-up, it remains an uphill struggle.
“Should I conclude from your curious unwillingness to respond that you think China’s occupation/annexation of Tibet was/is perfectly OK?”
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Ha ha ha! It must be getting right up your nose not getting an answer, and that’s brilliant,as if I’m going to answer YOUR questions.
You’re so arrogant you haven’t even acknowledge my questions, but never mind I’m having so much fun stringing you along its worth it.
Now what was the question again?
I am sure he wants to move on. Too many of his lot are involved.
‘An MP leading the campaign to uncover allegations of sexual abuse involving political figures in the 1980s has accused David Cameron of being “dismissive” of the issue.
Simon Danczuk has told Sky News he believes there is a “schism” in the Cabinet over the issue.
He said: “I think the Prime Minister, and I don’t say this lightly, but I think the Prime Minister is quite dismissive of the issue and wants to move on from it.’
http://news.sky.com/story/1394144/pm-dismissive-of-historical-sex-abuse-claims
PS Don’t mention Dolphin Square or any of the occupants.
Three Murders Investigated In Child Abuse Probe
An alleged abuse victim has come forward saying he was molested at a number of locations including London’s Dolphin Square.
http://news.sky.com/story/1394091/three-murders-investigated-in-child-abuse-probe
Glenn_UK
“@Doug Scorgie : Thank you for responding. The take-up is very low.”
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Of course the take-ip of my “test question” is very low.
Are you surprised and does that lead you to any tentative conclusions wrt what I was saying?
I also note that no one has responded to your own question either. Ant thoughts on that?
Now Habbakuk, you’ve been your usual nuisance, knowing full well that Mary is not well. You seem to get pleasure from goading and harassing people here, so put on your dunces hat, sit at the back and write 100 times.
‘I’m deriving pleasure from harassment and cyber stalking’
you are not leaving until its done. Ideally you should receive a spanking, but who in their right mind would want to pull your cacky caked trousers down to do it?….
Tell you what, ask me nicely and I do it, with a cat of nine tails.
Nevermind
So you believe that a cat o’ nine tails merely administers a “spanking”?
That’s a very curious take and one which seems to say quite a bit about you….
“Well, Craig doesn’t post many links and that doesn’t make him as dull as dishwater does it.
You, on the other hand, post lots of links but you’re hardly a red-hot, stimulating chilli pepper, are you.
I’ll continue to go easy with the links, just to show you that I can formulate thoughts unaided.”
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What on earth has Craig got to do with you posting a link, are you incapable of posting without Craig’s help?
As for easy on the links, any easier and you’ll fall off the blog completely.
So you can formulate thought unaided so can a chimpanzee.
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Yes I do post links most of the time, but I also post my own thoughts on the subjects.
The Westminster paedophile ring is finally being outed. There will be a few household names who won’t sleep easy tonight.
The truth will out. It’s what the psychos don’t really seem to understand.
Arhem! Arhem!
Habb
What was the question again?
ha ha ha.
Republicofscotland
“Ha ha ha! It must be getting right up your nose not getting an answer,..”
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On the contrary, it’s very satisfying, because it demonstrates, especially to Glenn_UK, the accuracy of what I was saying about the anti-West, anti-USA (and pro-China, pro-Russia pro-any “opponent” of the West/USA) mindset of most commenters on here.
You have been given repeated opportunity to disprove what I said about your mindset and you have, of course, failed to seize it.
Case proved, I think. 🙂
Republicofscotland
“Yes I do post links most of the time, but I also post my own thoughts on the subjects.”
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Really?
New piece on the pedophile ring in The Guardian: Claims that boys were murdered by VIP sex ring are credible and true – police: Metropolitan police launch murder inquiry into role alleged Westminster ring might have had in killings of three boys.
McRae was killed because he was closing in on paedophiles says friend: SNP activist Willie McRae uncovered a paedophile ring within the Scottish judiciary before his mysterious death in 1985, one of his oldest friends said last night.
YouKnowMyName
18 Dec, 2014 – 10:51 am
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YouKnowMyName the EU has been saying this since its inception; the UN ditto.
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“…[The EU] Supports IN PRINCIPLE recognition of Palestinian statehood and the two state solution…”
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A two-state solution is not on the cards and never has been it’s a cop-out as ever.
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“…these should go hand in hand with the development of PEACE TALKS…”
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Peace talks have got nowhere since 1967 because of Israel’s intransigence.
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“…settlements are illegal under international law…”
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That has been stated by the UN since 1967. Where are the threats of sanctions on Israel?
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“…calls on both parties to refrain from any action which may undermine the viability and the prospects of the two-state solution”
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“BOTH PARTIES”? As if they are equally wrong.
Israel is the aggressor and is continuing to flout international law by not only having settlements in occupied territory but continuing to expand those settlements using violence. The Palestinians have a right under international law to resist the occupation using violence if necessary. They are called terrorists.
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“Underlines the need for a comprehensive peace, ending all claims…”
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Claims like the right of return which is backed by international law?
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“…fulfilling the legitimate aspirations of both parties…”
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A Jewish state in occupied Palestine, run by Jews for the benefit of Jews is not a legitimate aspiration.
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“…including those of Israelis for security and those of Palestinians for statehood…”
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Israel gets security Palestine gets statehood but no security (no Palestinian army, air force or navy are to be allowed).
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“…stresses that the ONLY POSSIBLE solution to the conflict is the coexistence of two States…”
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What about a single, secular and democratic state in all of historic Palestine with equal rights for all its citizens?
Hope spring eternal.
Let’s not forget the elite Scottish paedophile ring (or rings). Thomas Hamilton’s links, the abuse of Hollie Greig in Aberdeenshire.
Check out membership of the Speculative Society for a wee clue.
Fred
18 Dec, 2014 – 11:02 am
“The SNP are aiming for 100% renewable by the end of the decade.”
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That may be an unrealistic timeframe Fred but is it not an excellent ambition considering the threat of climate change?
Reluctant Observer
18 Dec, 2014 – 2:07 pm
[A Troll is] “Possibly someone who posts a lot, likes to place down large cut-and-paste extracts, refers to others in insulting terms, but never ever engages in actual conversation with them. Even when they politely ask follow-up questions on points that poster has made.”
“You are talking about the imperious Mary – correct ?”
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No, the talk is about you, Habbabkuk, Resident Dissident and Kempe…to name but a few.
“You have been given repeated opportunity to disprove what I said about your mindset and you have, of course, failed to seize it.”
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Ermm!
Habb
What was the question again?
ha ha ha.
Not to bright are you, you said you formulate thoughts, well go and sit on the toilet pan, and wait for one of your special formulated thoughts to emerge.
I’m pretty sure you’re full of them.
Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)
18 Dec, 2014 – 2:54 pm
“May I take it, as a corollary that you would also consider that the Chinese take-over of Tibet should be condemned as aggression and a violation of international law…”
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The Chinese annexation of Tibet in 1950 was a violation of international law. Should it be condemned? Yes.
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“…that and the efforts of the US and the West to help Taiwan maintain its independence were/are to be welcomed?”
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No. International disputes should be addressed by the United Nations not the US or its NATO underlings who are merely playing geopolitical games with no concern whatsoever for the Taiwanese people.
A question for you Habbabkuk: should Israel be condemned for violations of international law?
I await your reply.
P.S. use a spell checker Habbabkuk.
“No, the talk is about you, Habbabkuk, Resident Dissident and Kempe…to name but a few.”
Clearly your definition of a troll is someone who disagrees with your viewpoint – i.e. 99% plus of the population.
“What about a single, secular and democratic state in all of historic Palestine with equal rights for all its citizens?”
Do you really think that Hamas would buy into that ideal?
“International disputes should be addressed by the United Nations not the US or its NATO underlings”
Would you apply a similar position to the Crimea, Eastern Ukraine? What would you do in situations where the UN is ineffective and massive human rights abuses are occurring e.g. Darfur, Rwanda, Bosnia? What would you do in situations where African dictators are being propped up by support from imperialist powers e.g. Mugabe by the Chinese?
From friend Macky on Squonk today:
“Re CM”s blog, I can’t for the life of me understand why a couple of Posters are jumping to the Habbu-Clown’s tune, and actually indulging him in his moronic challenge to denounce China just to prove they’re not “anti-West” !! Really !!!!!”
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I think he means you, Mr Scorgie…..but who is the other poster?
BTW please don’t play the line that I have not criticised Israel’s violations of international law and human rights abuses – that is just not the case as the record can demonstrate – your warped logic cannot accept that that such a position can be held by those who accept Israel has a right to existence as a legally constituted state and that its inhabitants should not all be driven into the sea or elsewhere.
I would also accept that Western intervention in some of the cases you cite was not justifiable – most notably the overthrow of Mossadeq.
Mr Scorgie
“A question for you Habbabkuk: should Israel be condemned for violations of international law?”
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Since we are not the UN, or in the UN, but merely humble commenters on CM, I would amend that question to read as follows:
“should Israel be condemned on this blog for violations of international law”.
The “should” has been overtaken by the “is”: hardly two days go by before Israel is roundly condemned on here for all manner of alleged offences, including of course violations of international law. In these circumstances, the answer must therefore be “yes”.
And the ongoing international law violation consisting of the annexation of Tibet by China should also be condemned on this blog. Unfortunately it is not.
Habba
Counting has never been one of Macky’s strengths! I wonder if Comrade Golding’s plea for Sino Soviet Union somehow offended his ideological sensitivities – the telephone box political tendencies can get rather sensitive on these matters.
I must say I disagree with your classification of E H Carr as a useful idiot – as Mr Goss remarked he was scholar – so he quite clearly was a fellow traveller. I must dig up his vehement denials regarding the Soviet involvement in Katyn.
Republicofscotland
18 Dec, 2014 – 4:34 pm
“The British prime minister added that his Conservative Party would always support Israel and “will always defend your (Tel Aviv’s) right to defend yourself.”
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ROS, I have never heard Cameron, Brown or Blair say that they will “always defend” the Palestinian’s right to defend themselves.
On the other hand perhaps Macky’s scorn is being directed against Glenn for raising the issue in the first place.
There has been much excitement recently – also on this blog – of the vote in several European Parliaments to recognise the statehood of Palestine.
In that connection, discuss and debate the following:
“A Palestinian state has existed since 1946. It is called the Kingdom of Jordan”.
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Resident Dissident
“I must say I disagree with your classification of E H Carr as a useful idiot – as Mr Goss remarked he was scholar – so he quite clearly was a fellow traveller. I must dig up his vehement denials regarding the Soviet involvement in Katyn.”
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You’re absolutely right – “fellow traveller” it is.
Resident Dissident
“Counting has never been one of Macky’s strengths!”
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I would ask you to be kind enough to eschew oxymorons when you post. “Macky’s strengths” refers.
🙂
A REMINDER – Glenn’s question.
“My posts are largely ignored, most likely because I waffle too much. But could anyone reading this please weigh in, and tell me if I’m wrong in my assumptions in what I consider the progressive, liberal crowd here?
Is Habbabkuk correct, when he says:
“I would vigorously contest the notion that the majority (not all!)of the regulars on here represent – or have anything in common with – “the entire liberal, progressive movement”. On the contrary, they appear to me to be the very antithesis of that movement.”
Seriously – one of us has totally misread the general mood here. Which of us has it right?”
Any answers?