The Independent have Jack Straw well and truly cornered:
Writing in the Mail on Sunday, Craig Murray, who was sacked as UK ambassador to Uzbekistan in 2004 after alleging that Britain used intelligence obtained by the CIA under torture, said he attended a meeting at the Foreign Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and claimed this policy came directly from Mr Straw.
The former Foreign Secretary said: “At all times I was scrupulous in seeking to carry out my duties in accordance with the law. I hope to be able to say more about this at an appropriate stage in the future.”
I hope so too, and I hope that the appropriate time is either at the Old Bailey or The Hague.
Straw has climbed down a bit from his days of power and glory, when he told the House of Commons, immediately after sacking me, that there was no such thing as the CIA extraordinary rendition programme and its existence was “Mr Murray’s opinion.” He no longer claims it did not exist and he no longer claims I am a fantasist. He now merely claims he was not breaking the law.
His claim of respect for the law is a bit dubious in the light of Sir Michael Wood’s evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry. Wood said that as Foreign Office Legal Adviser, he and his elite team of in-house FCO international lawyers unanimously advised Straw the invasion of Iraq would be an illegal war of aggression. Straw’s response? He wrote to the Attorney General requesting that Sir Michael be dismissed and replaced. And forced Goldsmith to troop out to Washington and get alternative advice from Bush’s nutjob Republican neo-con lawyers.
Jack Straw did not have any desire to act legally. He had a desire to be able to mount a legal defence of his illegal actions. That is a different thing.
Should any of us live to see the publication of the Chilcot Report, this will doubtless be clear, though probably as a footnote to page 862 of Annex VII. That is how the Westminster establishment works.
The SNP has weighed in on the side of the angels:
Revelations by the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan of the UK’s knowledge and acceptance of torture must see those involved answer questions on what happened.
In an article in the Mail on Sunday, Mr Murray reveals that he attended a meeting at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and revealed that this policy came directly from Jack Straw.
Mr Murray also reveals that “there was a deliberate policy of not writing down anything… because there should not be evidence of the policy.”
Craig Murray also states that “for the past year the British Ambassador in Washington and his staff have regularly been lobbying the US authorities not to reveal facts about the UK’s involvement in the CIA torture programme” and claims that is one of the reasons the full Senate report has not been published.
The SNP has called for a full judicial inquiry to be set up as a matter of urgency to get to get to the truth of who knew what and when.
Commenting, SNP Westminster Leader Angus Robertson MP said:
“Mr Murray’s revelation of the attitude taken by then Foreign Secretary Jack Straw only adds to the urgency with which we need a full judicial inquiry.
“Craig Murray’s article lifts the lid on the UK’s role in the human rights abuses that the US Senate has reported on and there can be no more attempts to avoid answering the tough questions that have been posed.
“Clearly answers are needed just as much from the politicians who led us at the time as from those directly involved in what was going on. The need for an independent judicial inquiry is now clear for all to see.
“It is also long past time that the findings of the Chilcot inquiry were published and there can be no more delays to that report being made public.
“There needs to be a full judicial inquiry to get to the bottom of the UK’s involvement in rendition flights that passed through UK territory and the UK’s wider knowledge of the abuses that the Senate has revealed.”
Craig Murray’s revelations can be viewed on page 25 of today’s Mail on Sunday
But with Malcolm Rifkind being promoted everywhere by the BBC to push his cover-up, it remains an uphill struggle.
” the Australian secret service ISIS, sorry ASIS, hooked up with ‘Group 13′ and hatched the self styled Islamic cleric ‘Lindt’ plot starring ‘Sheikh Haron’ the Iranian lacky and easy mark. ”
Well it was inevitable that the usual “experts” would automatically start clucking “false flag”. Has anything ever happened that wasn’t a “false flag”?
Yes, Kempe, of course there are many events which weren’t false flag events-any fool could see that. But the real fools of course are those who do not notice what immediately happens whenever a large amount of ordure hits a really fast moving fan. Your “Tinfoil hat” stuff is idiotically out of date, Rudolf old chap.
You used to enjoy drinking with Malcolm Rifkind https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/04/in_praise_of_ma/
Or does this embarrass you with your new mates in the SNP?
It’s not so much his enemies Blair needs to fear, it’s his friends. Any one of a number of outfits could see him as a risk, or he may be useful to them killed in a false-flag event. Mossad, the CIA, MI5 and 6, the Bush family, the British establishment, the British and Saudi royal families, murky groups working for banking and arms interests. All are capable of murder, and whatever his uses in the past Blair is still just a commoner.
Brent crude $60.
There are obvious serious issues with a system that defends torture. And it seems it’s systemic as it is personal. Obviously I don’t think the system is set up to torture, but I feel it’s an inevitable outcome of trusting a few individuals into positions of huge destructive capability.
I see it in many people also. I’d say a lot is trickle down. I do think some get a kick out of it, an expression of need for power? After all what does it mean of you can’t break the rules. And they mostly do.
As much as I feel it’s always just a few individuals who push for things like torture, I think the trial of the establishment is also critical. An establishment that virtually to a man has defended it.
Just want to reiterate that. All major institutions have defended torture, clearly, for the last 10+ years. And it’s done it before, many many times in history. They have said nothing, done nothing. To busy setting a good example to everyone else no doubt.
And all we hear as they terrorise and bomb people from on high is how un-fuckin- civilised they are. Does anyone for a second believe most of these régime’s would be doing what they do without the western powers assistance? Or that many who live in these places can’t see who’s hand is behind much of their oppression?
It’s f—kin la la land some people are living in. Total bloody fantasy land.
What we need to do is start addressing the legitimate massive grievances, and treating these places with some respect. God I can’t stand this country’s up it’s ass attitude sometimes.
George W Bush has cancelled an appointment as keynote speaker (what does that say about the quality of the other speakers) at a Jewish convention in Switzerland in February. He fears he may be arrested on torture charges.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1354211/George-W-Bush-cancels-Switzerland-visit-fears-arrest-torture-charges.html
” there are many events which weren’t false flag events-any fool could see that. ”
Many fools do not.
Look! Here’s another one!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30484534
Barbara Plett-Usher (nee Plett) was the BBC mid east correspondent fired for blubbing at Yasser Arafat’s funeral. It all fits!
“it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” – outsourcing at its most effective …
Just look at what happened in Egypt, At least they are not mostly ass lickers. You’ve got to respect that. What they and others do.
+ The brutality we are seeing in some areas of the middle east is also part of a reaction. Even considering 9/11, I don’t think ours is nearly as much. Ie, It’s not part of some group formed within turmoil, It’s at the heart of our long standing establishment. Worth thinking about that imo.
Re, John.
It would be nice if some other country would step up and try and arrest someone. I hope it’s getting to the point where it’s increasingly difficult for others to defend them.
“You used to enjoy drinking with Malcolm Rifkind https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/04/in_praise_of_ma/
Or does this embarrass you with your new mates in the SNP?”
I was your predecessor on the South Africa desk in 1984, Craig. FCO Minister Malcolm Rifkind got rid of me because of the Coventry Four affair. Rifkind took part in Margaret Thatcher’s June 1984 Chequers meeting with the two visiting Bothas (PW and Pik). He was no more soft on apartheid than Thatcher!
Bimey, Craig – Well Done. I didn’t think you would get a sniff out of The Mainstream Media. Not that it is likely to make any difference. The crazies are determined to go to war with Russia. We will all be lucky not to get nuked.
Sorry, I don’t believe a word re Sydney. He’s been on the payroll for years and it only took 5 minutes to find that out…but everyone else takes it hook line and stinker…though it now seems like water off a duck’s back like the news is another episode of Coronation Street..and Ken Barlow is back now…and it might be a white Christmas so everything will be O.K…
And the band plays on, on the Titanic.
Tony
Patrick: we have some parallel experiences in that I was Craig’s predecessor as Deputy High Commissioner in Accra. Comparing notes is best not on this website, so if you are interested, email me: [email protected]
O/T
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-15/russia-shocks-emergency-rate-hike-boosts-interest-rate-105-17
Sorry to break up the party beautiful people. But, they’ll get away with it- they always do.
The chance of either of these ghastly creatures ever being brought to book over this disgusting episode is precisely ZERO!!
Ishmael, true indeed. But there are already a few countries Blair would not openly step foot in.
One of the things that is puzzling me is why nothing has been said about what went on on Diego Garcia with the renditions there. If the United Nations ought to be investigating subversive activities it is not the off-chance that Iran might be enriching uranium to make nuclear weapons, though I would not like to see that, it is Diego Garcia which we leased to the Americans after kicking off all the natives and gassing their dogs. This once pleasant island has a huge US military base which would almost certainly know what happened to Malaysian flight 370 coupled with satellite information. Some believe pilot control was overriden and it was autopiloted onto Diego Garcia. The US denies this of course. But apparently the US torture report says nothing about those known to have been rendered there and what happened to them.
What about a freedom of information request from MI5/6? Yes. How stupid of me. I can’t even get a proper response from the FCO on security issues, extradition &c.
@Patrick Haseldine:
Interesting revelation. Given his last sentence- one wonders if Craig just fallen in his own shite?
Squonk; That’s the downside of the oil crash. Credit markets globally will follow.
Cash is King. Everyone else can go suck an egg. Oilapocalypse.
http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/cia-uses-torture-to-create-mind.html
Aang Irfan has completely lost the plot about religion, but in a world which treats religious morality as a disease, society’s cure is often to zap the religious mind with Lithium.
You didn’t like being sexually abused as a child? Zap the part of the brain that retains a religious code. Modern medicine in the NHS does not do morals. It zaps the braincells where the moral compass is contained.
Thanks for that Squonk. I’m still trying to get my head round it. Will it work? Possibly. In the current climate which borrowers can afford 17% apart from those already locked in? My guess is it is a move to flush out dollar and foreign currency investment. There are safety catches like the emergency 17% can be applied or dropped at any time within the next twelve months.
Economists, investment brokers give us your take on this please.
Russia knows that it can devalue the rouble and it will not make any difference in the domestic market. That reflects Harold Wilson’s “the pound in your pocket” philosophy of still having the same purchasing power in the UK. And Russia is a lot more capable of feeding itself than the UK.
What world economies have been missing in recent years is the Keynesianist rationale. There has been too much monetarism (30 years of it). It has divided the wealth. I am guessing this is aimed at foreign investors trying to make a quick killing when the oil prices go up. Talking of which, what happens when the price of oil goes up, we immediately feel it at the pumps. Why are we not immediately feeling the benefit of big reductions in the price of oil?
@John: Good analysis on Newsnight. Shades of Back Wednesday which forced the £ out of the ERM. Russia’s overall economy is very healthy with only 10% debt, and huge deals with both India and China that will come to fruition in due course. Certainly economic war at the moment though and Russians definitely in for a bumpy ride.
@Tim
Great catch re Rifkind – an utterly odious mediocrity. Not at all surprising to see CM stabbing in the back someone he normally grovels to. It’s how he rolls.
Patrick Hazeldine
The difference between Craig Murray and Malcolm Rifkind is that CM and Mrs T had traditional UK values opposing apartheid on moral grounds, while Rifkind is a nothing more than a calculating servant of Zion. He selects his words carefully like a fly-fisherman choosing a fly from his collection.
Humanity and a truss of coloured feathers attached to a lethal barb are completely different things in my opinion.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article186109.html
“The Islamic Emirate uses a cocktails of drugs to condition its fighters according to protocols that appear to have been prescribed by the CIA [5].”
Good question @ 1:04:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siiPQ9EG20g
If I learnt one thing inside the Foreign Office it is that apparently normal decent people can be twisted by the State to do bad things. If you hate everyone for that you would end up hating most of society. I have always got on well with Rifkind on a personal level. As I have frequently stated, I don’t choose my friends by their politics.
You’re going to have to choose sides Craig. One can’t have it both ways. New alliances must be formed for State revision. A complete break from traditional ties must accompany significant change and reform. It’s risky but imperative for a dissident.
It seems very telling to me, How they all essentially go along. A general kind of accepting attitude of those in the front-line club that speaks to this wider phenomenon imo.
Just after that question I mentioned they are talking about it quite casually as “ the current round” and it’s clear with this attitude we are just waiting for the next round.
No “we can’t do this, we cant do that” or “I can’t see this happening” . BOLLOX. You won’t, you won’t kick up a real fuss because your in the establishment. That’s why they can’t see much happening, it’s exactly what they plan on doing, token gesture followed by sweet nothing.
Imo these people who think they are against it are quite culpable imo. A lot of them have a lot of power they are actively not using.
“The Congressional report on torture confirms that Al Qaeda was not involved in the attacks of September 11”
by Thierry Meyssan
“The report itself does not address the vast removal and sequestration system that the US Navy had put in place during the terms of President George W. Bush; a program that has led to worldwide kidnapping and sequestration of more than 80 000 people aboard 17 flat-bottomed boats stationed in international waters (these ships are: USS Bataan, USS Peleliu, USS Ashland, USNS Stockham, USNS Watson, USNS Watkins, USNS Sister, USNS Charlton, USNS Pomeroy, USNS Red Cloud, USNS Soderman, USNS Dahl MV PFC William B Baugh, Alex Bonnyman MV, MV Franklin J Phillips, MV Huage Louis J Jr, James Anderson Jr. MV). It is content to study 119 cases of human guinea pigs subjected to psychological experiments in Guantánamo and fifty secret prisons from 2002 to late 2009, a year after the election of Barack Obama.”
http://www.voltairenet.org/article186204.html
The 119 human guinea pigs were tortured purely for experimentation. The evidence gleaned from torture was ignored.
80,000 human guinea pigs renditioned to US galley ships and many thousands of others renditioned to all the other land-based torture centres in Poland Libya, Syria, Norweay etc are not even mentioned.
This represents a USUKIS experiment on torturing Muslims which dwarves the sadistic experiments of Nazis under Hitler.
USUKIS have been looking for a system which will neutralise the innate belief in God which is innate in all human beings, but which is nurtured into full faith by Muslims.
Human faith is centred in the heart so no amount of abuse to the body or the brain can affect it.
When the experimenters find they are unable to affect human faith, they murder the vast majority of them.