The Independent have Jack Straw well and truly cornered:
Writing in the Mail on Sunday, Craig Murray, who was sacked as UK ambassador to Uzbekistan in 2004 after alleging that Britain used intelligence obtained by the CIA under torture, said he attended a meeting at the Foreign Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and claimed this policy came directly from Mr Straw.
The former Foreign Secretary said: “At all times I was scrupulous in seeking to carry out my duties in accordance with the law. I hope to be able to say more about this at an appropriate stage in the future.”
I hope so too, and I hope that the appropriate time is either at the Old Bailey or The Hague.
Straw has climbed down a bit from his days of power and glory, when he told the House of Commons, immediately after sacking me, that there was no such thing as the CIA extraordinary rendition programme and its existence was “Mr Murray’s opinion.” He no longer claims it did not exist and he no longer claims I am a fantasist. He now merely claims he was not breaking the law.
His claim of respect for the law is a bit dubious in the light of Sir Michael Wood’s evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry. Wood said that as Foreign Office Legal Adviser, he and his elite team of in-house FCO international lawyers unanimously advised Straw the invasion of Iraq would be an illegal war of aggression. Straw’s response? He wrote to the Attorney General requesting that Sir Michael be dismissed and replaced. And forced Goldsmith to troop out to Washington and get alternative advice from Bush’s nutjob Republican neo-con lawyers.
Jack Straw did not have any desire to act legally. He had a desire to be able to mount a legal defence of his illegal actions. That is a different thing.
Should any of us live to see the publication of the Chilcot Report, this will doubtless be clear, though probably as a footnote to page 862 of Annex VII. That is how the Westminster establishment works.
The SNP has weighed in on the side of the angels:
Revelations by the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan of the UK’s knowledge and acceptance of torture must see those involved answer questions on what happened.
In an article in the Mail on Sunday, Mr Murray reveals that he attended a meeting at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and revealed that this policy came directly from Jack Straw.
Mr Murray also reveals that “there was a deliberate policy of not writing down anything… because there should not be evidence of the policy.”
Craig Murray also states that “for the past year the British Ambassador in Washington and his staff have regularly been lobbying the US authorities not to reveal facts about the UK’s involvement in the CIA torture programme” and claims that is one of the reasons the full Senate report has not been published.
The SNP has called for a full judicial inquiry to be set up as a matter of urgency to get to get to the truth of who knew what and when.
Commenting, SNP Westminster Leader Angus Robertson MP said:
“Mr Murray’s revelation of the attitude taken by then Foreign Secretary Jack Straw only adds to the urgency with which we need a full judicial inquiry.
“Craig Murray’s article lifts the lid on the UK’s role in the human rights abuses that the US Senate has reported on and there can be no more attempts to avoid answering the tough questions that have been posed.
“Clearly answers are needed just as much from the politicians who led us at the time as from those directly involved in what was going on. The need for an independent judicial inquiry is now clear for all to see.
“It is also long past time that the findings of the Chilcot inquiry were published and there can be no more delays to that report being made public.
“There needs to be a full judicial inquiry to get to the bottom of the UK’s involvement in rendition flights that passed through UK territory and the UK’s wider knowledge of the abuses that the Senate has revealed.”
Craig Murray’s revelations can be viewed on page 25 of today’s Mail on Sunday
But with Malcolm Rifkind being promoted everywhere by the BBC to push his cover-up, it remains an uphill struggle.
Proposition (@ you know who you are):
http://is-a-cunt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/jzlzgn5-300×257.jpg
Well?
@glenn_uk
I don’t play games with trolls.
A troll is someone who looks inwards at the other contributors not outwards at events influencing the world. Regardless of which clique they are in.
Brent crude seems to be holding around the $60 support level.
@Sofia: Ok, but could you please clarify, and say (for the record, if you will) that you are not a fan of Stalin or Mao? It’s not a distraction, I’m not trying to divert or manipulate here. It’s quite genuine.
Let us know that you’re not an admirer of Stalin and Mao – just that, no drawn out extensions – and you’ll be helping me make a very significant point, and might just make Habbabkuk have a rethink.
I hesitate to put this on you, but by failing to support my notion that progressive liberals do not like Stalin/Mao, you’ll be proving him correct. (Glenn)
Fair question IMO, and fairly put. Though I don’t think there’s any way of demonstrating to the resident arseholes that that is exactly what they are, and would add that my absence of support for the notion that Milton Keynes should be razed to the ground (say) actually says nothing about my views on the matter.
Re sanctions on Russia (including perhaps manipulating oil prices, Fred) – excellent piece, no byline but probably not from one of Putin’s PR’s – from Deutsche Welle. Logical analysis.
http://www.dw.de/wests-sanctions-on-russia-bite-but-backlash-could-hurt/a-18138810
The main candidates gear up for next year’s US presidential election:
rick perry presidential campaign 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdOrVT_13OI
Jeb Bush presidential campaign 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysY9rBYr7-s
Rand Paul presidential campaign 2016
http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/inside-rand-paul-s-jewish-charm-offensive-20140720
Hilary Clinton presidential campaign 2016
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/05/hillary-clinton-israel-saban_n_6278360.html
Joe Biden presidential campaign 2016
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/WATCH-LIVE-US-Vice-President-Joe-Biden-delivers-keynote-address-at-pro-Israel-think-tank-383818
etc
etc
I wonder if I heard this trailer correctly this morning for a Radio 4 programme tomorrow.
‘Hillary Clinton – growing up Jewish in Hawaii’ ????
Hell, Node, couldn’t they wait until the Christmas charade was over before starting their periodic premium-rate platinum borefest all over again? It isn’t as if we didn’t have our own problems…
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/16/conservative-fundraiser-black-and-white-ball-invitations
(Lucrative guests) include Henry Angest, the chairman of Arbuthnot Bank and a former Tory party treasurer. He has been criticised for controlling a credit company, Everyday Loans, which charges members of the public interest at an average of 74.8% APR. Before the last election he gave the Conservatives a £5m overdraft at 3.5%. He declined to comment.
He’ll be sat next to IDS, then.
Ian Taylor, the CEO of the billion-dollar oil company Vitol, is also a committee member who has dined with the prime minister. A spokesman for Vitol would not comment on the fundraising event.
More on Vitol here –
http://tapnewswire.com/2014/08/camerons-promise-that-fracking-will-reduce-energy-bills-is-fallacious/
Vitol’s not just a Tory funder: ‘Lord’ Malloch-Brown knows them well
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/jul/30/africa-malloch-brown-oil-vitol
And Vitol’s Taylor funded ‘Better Together’, of course…
http://nationalcollective.com/2013/04/07/dirty-money-the-tory-millionaire-bankrolling-better-together/
Russian officials have admitted that the combination of falling oil price and Western sanctions are taking a heavy toll – despite assurances to the contrary by President Vladimir Putin and his inner circle.
No down-to-earth logic there Komodo. Putin has said the Russian economy will take two years to recover. The awareness in this skilful piece is delusion by the West that Putin’s credibility will be damaged and public support diminished by crashing Russia’s economy.
Russia’s eye on the ball may have been disorientated yet Putin has picked the ball up and said that Russia will diversify and expand other areas of expertise including nuclear.
As an aside I am waiting for Agent Cameron to address the anti-fracking lobby with a statement that Britain will abandon [for now] hydraulic fracturing of Britain’s mother earth. Fracking is no longer profitable. Indubitably in the lead-up to next years election .
More redactions to protect the FIFA hierarchy needless to say.
FIFA To Publish World Cup Bidding Report
Football bosses agree to publish Michael Garcia’s report with “appropriate redactions” once FIFA’s corruption probe is complete.
http://news.sky.com/story/1394712/fifa-to-publish-world-cup-bidding-report
…. and while I’m on the subject, compare and contrast, Fred:
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/55188/jim-murphy-labour-still-loves-israel
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/08/why-is-the-snp-endorsing-israel-haters/
MG – Can’t imagine why you should implicitly believe what either side says. I offered the piece as a balance to the kneejerk Putinists here, who appear to imagine that P is acting in any way at all in their interests, rather than his own. As the article says, there’s a convincing risk that if P goes, there will be a period of enhanced misery for the majority of Russians, followed by an ultranationalist, possibly fascist government. That’s the only reason I can see to support him.
Meanwhile, if oil stays low it pretty well beyond debate that Russia will remain in the shit, economically speaking. The added bonus being that alternative energy and fracking everywhere cease to compete with Big Oil’s rigged petrodollar market – Cameron’s already going to stop subsidising onshore wind, btw. Result for Big Oil, as usual. See Ian Taylor, above, of Vitol.
Malloch Brown always good at feathering his nest. He is a crossbencher now. All things to all people. It’s more lucrative that way. KCMG same old same old
http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/lords/lord-malloch-brown/3774
The wife along with other diplomatic wives joined in the attack on Assad’s wife when an attack on Syria was being planned.
Glenn_UK
“As a reminder, I have a dispute with Habbabkuk. He maintains that most progressives support the likes of Mao and Stalin. I am confident that progressive liberals/ democratic socialists (of which I count myself one) do not support Mao/ Stalin etc. .”
______________
Ni, no, no, Glenn, you’ve gone adrift somewhere along the line. Probably because of all the chaff emitted by certain Original Trolls.
What I maintained was is the following:
“I would vigorously contest the notion that the majority (not all!)of the REGULARS IN HERE represent – or have anything in common with – “the entire liberal, progressive movement”. On the contrary, they appear to me to be the very antithesis of that movement.” (emphasis added).
See the difference?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
You then put that question to readers (and as far as I can see no one has bothered to reply). There is also my linked but neverthelss separate “test question” (about Tibet/China), which a couple of people have answered and another couple have expressly refused to do so.
With respect rarely I believe completely Komodo. Yet I knew your intention and very grateful for your harmony as always.
KOWN
“I would vigorously contest the notion that the majority (not all!)of the regulars on here represent – or have anything in common with – “the entire liberal, progressive movement”. On the contrary, they appear to me to be the very antithesis of that movement.”
_________________
You’ve made the same mistake as Glenn_UK (see my post to him, above)
Lysias says
“Anyone who brings up that tired old chestnut about Jordan being the Palestinian state confirms that he is a died-in-the-wool hasbarist.”
__________________
I replied : “Have you ever seen a map showing the borders of mandate Palestine,Lysias?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lysias obviously had to go out to buy a historical atlas and hasn’t yet returned from his quest…..
Anyone else care to try to refute me?
Habbabkuk @ 2.15
That quote you attribute to me is not one of mine.
KOWN
No, of course not. It is mine. Please refer to my reply to Glenn_UK at 14h15 today. Thanks.
Latest comment from Gorbachev, in an interview with Sophie Shevardnadze… the former Soviet politician’s granddaughter:
“America needs a Perestroika”.
http://rt.com/news/214367-us-needs-perestroika-gorbachev/
Jihadist attacks just suddenly returning, or something more sinister & orchestrated ?;
http://www.bbc.com/news/30476381
Habbbkuk
Problem is, in putting those words in quotation marks under my name you give the false impression that they are mine. I would be grateful if you would not do that, since they are clearly sentiments that I do not endorse.
I did as you said and read your reply to Glenn_Uk but I am none the wiser.
Now having puzzled me perhaps you would be good enough to enlighten me and answer the questions I put to you at 7.37.
Thanks.
“ROS, I have never heard Cameron, Brown or Blair say that they will “always defend” the Palestinian’s right to defend themselves.”
—————————
That’s right Dougie, and you probably never will, David Cameron, cries crocodile tears, for the murdered children of Pakistan, but not for the murdered children of Palestine or Bahrain.
Its a disgrace how Westminster MP’s suck up and kowtow to Israel.
The combined effect produced by Western sanctions and low oil prices proves that there’s no place for Russia in the international financial system, believes British prime minister David Cameron, urging for more pressure on Moscow.
“We should stand up very firmly against the Russian aggression that’s taking place,” Cameron said before the Parliament on Wednesday.
The PM reminded that it’s the UK, which “led the way in Europe in making sure there were sanctions” imposed against Russia over its ‘annexation’ of Crimea in March and Moscow’s alleged involvement in the Ukrainian crisis.
“And what the combination of the lower oil price and the sanctions are showing that I think it isn’t possible for Russia to be part of the international financial system, but try and opt out of the rules-based international legal system,” Cameron said.
“We should keep up the pressure,” the head of the British government added, agreeing that “in this respect the interests of the United Kingdom and democracy do go together.”
………………………..
I’m certainly not pro Russian, but Obama’s lapdog David Cameron, using the words “Russian Aggression” and “The interests of the United Kingdom and democracy” strike me as hypocritical.
The Israeli intelligence minister describes as an “act of war” a Palestinian draft submitted to the UN Security Council to end Israeli occupation by the end of 2017.
“The Palestinians made sure to remove any mention of Israel’s status as a Jewish state from the draft, which means this is not an act of peace, it’s an act of war,” Israel Radio quoted Yuval Steinitz as saying on Thursday.
The draft was presented to the UN by Jordan, said Palestinian envoy to the UN Riyad Mansour at a press conference on Wednesday.
“We need to consider every move including cutting off economic ties with” the Palestinian Authority, Steinitz said.
Tel Aviv, however, has refused to return to the 1967 borders and is unwilling to discuss the issue of al-Quds.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/18/390766/palestinian-un-bid-act-of-war-israel/
…………………………..
Ah! Yes any old excuse to resume bombing women and children again.
From the saintly Mary:
“I wonder if I heard this trailer correctly this morning for a Radio 4 programme tomorrow.
‘Hillary Clinton – growing up Jewish in Hawaii’ ????”
____________________
1/. Can anyone help Mary by answering?
2/. Qestion to Mary : which is the greater sin – growing up Jewish or growing up in Hawaii?
KOWN
“I did as you said and read your reply to Glenn_Uk but I am none the wiser.”
_________________
Don’t be cute and try again.
Here is my post again:
Glenn wrote:
“As a reminder, I have a dispute with Habbabkuk. He maintains that most progressives support the likes of Mao and Stalin. I am confident that progressive liberals/ democratic socialists (of which I count myself one) do not support Mao/ Stalin etc. .”
______________
I replied :
“No, no, no, Glenn, you’ve gone adrift somewhere along the line. Probably because of all the chaff emitted by certain Original Trolls.
What I maintained was is the following:
“I would vigorously contest the notion that the majority (not all!)of the REGULARS IN HERE represent – or have anything in common with – “the entire liberal, progressive movement”. On the contrary, they appear to me to be the very antithesis of that movement.” (emphasis added).”
Can you see the difference between what I maintain and what Glenn erroneously thought I maintain?
Hope that helps.
Republicofscotland said at 19h28 yesterday:
“Yes I do post links most of the time, but I also post my own thoughts on the subjects.”
________________
Is his post at 17h06 today an example of his “own thoughts”?
11 lines of cut-and-paste from Press TV of Iran and then his one-line “thought”, reading as follows:
“Ah! Yes any old excuse to resume bombing women and children again.”
Quite a weighty, meaty thought there! LOL
Or even his post at 17h00 today:
13 lines of (unattributed) cut-and-paste, followed by his 3 line “own thought”, reading as follows:
“I’m certainly not pro Russian, but Obama’s lapdog David Cameron, using the words “Russian Aggression” and “The interests of the United Kingdom and democracy” strike me as hypocritical.”
More weight, more meat. Not.
“…. and while I’m on the subject, compare and contrast, Fred:”
So what are you telling me for? I’m not a member of the Labour party, or any other party for that matter.
I’m just one of the 55% that got it right. Brent crude $60.
KingOfWelshNoir
“I have a number of questions I would like to put to you.
Firstly, do you agree with my claim that Britain, having been at war with 90% of the world at one time or another, is the most warlike country in history? And if not, who is?
(Source: ‘All the Countries We’ve Ever Invaded: And the Few We Never Got Round To’ Stuart Laycock.)”
______________________
Firstly, the question is not whether I agree with your claim but whether I agree with Stuart Laycock’s proposition.
Secondly (in reply to the question corrected as above: I have no idea, not having read his book (?article)to assure myself that he isn’t fiddling the books, so to speak and to see what he calls “being at war”. I could imagine that some sleight of hand has gone on.
But anyway, and inter alia in the light of the above, your question gives rise immediately to two considerations:
1/. even if it is true – so what?
2/. is it possible that Britain, for all its “wars” , has managed to kill far fewer foreign people than the Chinese govt managed to kill of its own people (in, for example, the “Great Leap Forward”)? Or perhaps even far fewer people than the Soviet Union killed of its own people?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=
“Secondly, in view of the fact that the US has bombed more than 40 nations since 1945, would you agree that in the post war world America is the greatest perpetrator of crimes against humanity?”
____________________
No.
To be noted that bombing does not automatically constitute a crime against humanity; should, for example, the US bombing of an (empty) pharmaceutical factory in Sudan be classed as a crime against humanity?
So, again, we should need to look at the details of those 40 countries bombed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Thirdly, would you agree that though America’s military attacks on the rest of the world since 1945 dwarf those of China and Russia, the media consensus in the west presents it the other way round, lauding the US as a benign force for good and presenting China and Russia invariably as international villains?”
________________
Leaving aside the first part of the above as selective and tendentious (number of military “attacks” as against numbers of people killed- cf the “Great Leap Forward”), my answer to your proposition in the second part is : no, because the picture you paint is not accurate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~”Thanks in advance”
_______________
You’re very welcome.
If only your idealogical colleagues could be arsed to answer even a quarter of my questions 🙂
Fred
I hesitate to say this to you, but if you keep on posting the price of crude oil three times a day you will become almost as boring (not to say obsessive) as Baal-Komodo with his unending stream of posts about Tony BLiar.
Just friendly advice, Fred.