The Independent have Jack Straw well and truly cornered:
Writing in the Mail on Sunday, Craig Murray, who was sacked as UK ambassador to Uzbekistan in 2004 after alleging that Britain used intelligence obtained by the CIA under torture, said he attended a meeting at the Foreign Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and claimed this policy came directly from Mr Straw.
The former Foreign Secretary said: “At all times I was scrupulous in seeking to carry out my duties in accordance with the law. I hope to be able to say more about this at an appropriate stage in the future.”
I hope so too, and I hope that the appropriate time is either at the Old Bailey or The Hague.
Straw has climbed down a bit from his days of power and glory, when he told the House of Commons, immediately after sacking me, that there was no such thing as the CIA extraordinary rendition programme and its existence was “Mr Murray’s opinion.” He no longer claims it did not exist and he no longer claims I am a fantasist. He now merely claims he was not breaking the law.
His claim of respect for the law is a bit dubious in the light of Sir Michael Wood’s evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry. Wood said that as Foreign Office Legal Adviser, he and his elite team of in-house FCO international lawyers unanimously advised Straw the invasion of Iraq would be an illegal war of aggression. Straw’s response? He wrote to the Attorney General requesting that Sir Michael be dismissed and replaced. And forced Goldsmith to troop out to Washington and get alternative advice from Bush’s nutjob Republican neo-con lawyers.
Jack Straw did not have any desire to act legally. He had a desire to be able to mount a legal defence of his illegal actions. That is a different thing.
Should any of us live to see the publication of the Chilcot Report, this will doubtless be clear, though probably as a footnote to page 862 of Annex VII. That is how the Westminster establishment works.
The SNP has weighed in on the side of the angels:
Revelations by the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan of the UK’s knowledge and acceptance of torture must see those involved answer questions on what happened.
In an article in the Mail on Sunday, Mr Murray reveals that he attended a meeting at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and revealed that this policy came directly from Jack Straw.
Mr Murray also reveals that “there was a deliberate policy of not writing down anything… because there should not be evidence of the policy.”
Craig Murray also states that “for the past year the British Ambassador in Washington and his staff have regularly been lobbying the US authorities not to reveal facts about the UK’s involvement in the CIA torture programme” and claims that is one of the reasons the full Senate report has not been published.
The SNP has called for a full judicial inquiry to be set up as a matter of urgency to get to get to the truth of who knew what and when.
Commenting, SNP Westminster Leader Angus Robertson MP said:
“Mr Murray’s revelation of the attitude taken by then Foreign Secretary Jack Straw only adds to the urgency with which we need a full judicial inquiry.
“Craig Murray’s article lifts the lid on the UK’s role in the human rights abuses that the US Senate has reported on and there can be no more attempts to avoid answering the tough questions that have been posed.
“Clearly answers are needed just as much from the politicians who led us at the time as from those directly involved in what was going on. The need for an independent judicial inquiry is now clear for all to see.
“It is also long past time that the findings of the Chilcot inquiry were published and there can be no more delays to that report being made public.
“There needs to be a full judicial inquiry to get to the bottom of the UK’s involvement in rendition flights that passed through UK territory and the UK’s wider knowledge of the abuses that the Senate has revealed.”
Craig Murray’s revelations can be viewed on page 25 of today’s Mail on Sunday
But with Malcolm Rifkind being promoted everywhere by the BBC to push his cover-up, it remains an uphill struggle.
@Ishmael: I’m really impressed with David Davis these days. Could it be that his election battle with David Icke taught him a think or two and moulded him into a deeper person. Just shows that it’s never too late…
Correction, only 119 of the many thousands of Muslims renditioned to Guananamo or 50 other secret prisons, were studied in the Congressional Report.
Thing not think (a slip but certainly not Freudian, I think 🙂 )
Pontification. In a small room where nobody can really hear anyway.
They don’t even come on this site ffs, how hard is that.
AGIANST TORTURE (expires in 24 hours) Quick, get yours today!
At least they are trying to do something, Ishmael…
“I’m really impressed with David Davis these days”
Don’t know how to take that. Myself I have a real hatred of most all establishment figures. I think they are all out for there own glory and comfort, just lap up the lime light.
I hate the way they talk, act, the lives they lead. Their hollowed out self.
So unless you where being sarcastic I don’t think I agree. Not that I know him well.
Washington takes heat off President Bashar al-Assad
“In 2013, the US Goodwill Ambassador on War Crimes, Stephen Rapp (photo), requested Jordan, Turkey and other states to set up a “UN Special Tribunal for Syria.” However, his efforts fell through.
On the Syrian side, the Atlanticist narrative of a savagely repressed revolution is unequivocally refuted and it is affirmed that the Syrian Arab Republic and President Bashar al-Assad are innocent of the crimes they are charged with. In addition, the “Friends of Syria” are accused of having staged a pseudo-revolution to attack the country and, thereby, of being the real and sole culprits of the crimes perpetrated during the war. Finally, it is pointed out that, despite the prohibition notice issued by the “Friends of Syria” to prevent Syrian citizens exiled abroad from voting, 63 percent of Syrians went to the polls in June, electing President Assad with a sweeping 88 percent of the vote. Therefore, the controversy was settled by the Syrian people themselves.
The State Department has decided to shift the funds to a new programme in charge of establishing the crimes committed by the Islamic State.”
http://www.voltairenet.org/article186120.html
They didn’t know why they were supposed to attack Syria anyway.
“At least they are trying to do something, Ishmael…”
Bullshit are they trying.
They tried in Egypt, that’s trying. It’s not writing books or making speaches. It hurts to try, they don’t. They are still all palls with eachother.
@Ishmael: I guess I’m easily impressed by a conservative politician who sees the light. David Davies used to be a creature of the right. You may remember that he changed and resigned his seat “on principle”.
@Ben: the Rouble may have been under pressure, but European stocks are really feeling it. FTSE down to 6187 at the close (!) fallson French and German stock markets even worse.
So far, US stocks seem to be barely affected…
Just my point, and what has he done since, made some speeches? Has he organised any real resistance. Surly a man of some means could do this, even a small core.
It’s not a priority, and they certainly won’t do anything that may involve them working with real communities. Or anything that risks reputation or comfort.
This is no resistance what so ever. Relatively speaking compared to what ordinary people do it’s sod all. And it’s no wonder. They have spent years building up there privileged positions within the establishment. They are NOT going to help introduce any significant threat. Torture be dammed, they will work against reform if it comes to it.
These people cannot accept normal society, they can’t live in it unless they are apart from it, ‘above’ it. Enslaving the vulgar. It’s part of the culture.
Don’t believe these people, many don’t acknowledge it but they know what they are about when it comes to it.
“Russia knows that it can devalue the rouble and it will not make any difference in the domestic market. That reflects Harold Wilson’s “the pound in your pocket” philosophy of still having the same purchasing power in the UK. And Russia is a lot more capable of feeding itself than the UK.”
Problem there is that Wilson was talking rubbish and he knew he was talking rubbish. Devaluation did affect “the pound in your pocket” and everybody knew it would. Russia imported about 12% of it’s food but import bans have caused food prices to rise by 37% and inflation overall to 8%.
Meanwhile, Carl Gardner (forever a government lawyer, even if as a “source-based legal blogger”?) pushes the “feeding” angle: “Wasn’t rectal feeding a method of force feeding rather than an interrogation method, though? Am I wrong?” — and more (“You mean keeping people alive”, &c), in this Twitter thread
https://twitter.com/carlgardner/status/543159325209157632
On the ‘feeding’, by the way[by Physicians for Human Rights]:
http://physiciansforhumanrights.org/library/other/fact-sheet-rectal-hydration-and-rectal-feeding.html
@Kempe: If economics were an exact science, there would be no point in speculation… who would bet on whether or not an object would be attracted to the centre of the earth?
Some understand the rules of complexity a little better, and experience is always useful. However, the only parallel of the current crisis that we know anything about is Black Wednesday when UK interest rates went to 15% in similar circumstances to the horror of mortgagees. Many now see Black Wednesday as not so bad because it took the UK out of what would become the Euro. Some suggesting that Soros is also one of the architects of the fall in the Rouble, and who knows…
Regardless of the Rouble’s woes, the low oil price seems to be playing havoc with stock markets. Fascinating, but worrying times all round. Who are the winners? [Apart from Soros, and fellow speculators]
O/T Written Q&A Lords
Sovereignty: Scotland
Question asked by Lord Ashcroft
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the decision to grant a referendum on independence to the Scottish people and the terms of that referendum were agreed by the Cabinet.[HL3257]
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): In line with long-established convention, the Government does not comment on the proceedings of Cabinet or its committees.
!!
What is Ashcroft’s interest in this?
15 Dec 2014 : Column WA26
On Colour Revolutions and colour coded torture venues.
http://redpilltimes.com/first-poland-now-romania-eastern-europe-one-big-cia-torture-chamber/
@Sofia: Quite disgusting! From what I’ve been reading, it seems that Romania was “hung out to dry” by the Soviet Union, so that would have made it easy pickings for the US without more active support from the EU. Looks like Romania, like Ukraine and Poland, became part of the “Coalition of the Willing”.
Looks like the rouble has come under fresh attack since European markets opened:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/12/158238/intraday.stm
European stock markets also falling. Should be an interesting day.
Brent crude $59.
UNHCR Ukraine report.
“Most of human rights violations appear to have been perpetrated by certain voluntary battalions or by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU),” the report said. “The procedural rights of people have not always been observed, with reports of ill-treatment and reports of reprisals upon release.”
The UN named arbitrary detentions, cases of torture, as well as enforced disappearances of those suspected of “separatism and terrorism,” among the examples of human rights violations.
Is there a pattern here?
More here, http://unhcr.einnews.com/article/239815788/N7_B1IoAIzOMSz01
Looks like
Scotland’sthe UK’s oil revenues* are going down the toilet, doesn’t it?Keep on pumping that housing bubble, Gideon. It’s all you’ve got.
*And nae sovereign wealth fund for hard times, either. Thank you, Thatcher.
KingOfWelshNoir
“Instead of muddying the water by asking ancillary questions, why not state your position clearly?
If you do, I will answer your ancillary question as to why posters post selectively on issues.”
_______________
Sorry to get back to you so late but I have been away on business.
My position on torture is that I am against it.
Actually, I’ve already said that somewhere on this blog – perhaps you missed it.
Over to you now to explain why people post selectively about torture. No facile tosh about “the Us tortures more than everyone else”, please., just try and convince me that the selective posters are posting selectively in good faith.
Thanks.
Looks like shale really is no longer economic…
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/15/ukraine-crisis-gas-idUSL6N0TZ29A20141215
“” the Australian secret service ISIS, sorry ASIS, hooked up with ‘Group 13′ and hatched the self styled Islamic cleric ‘Lindt’ plot starring ‘Sheikh Haron’ the Iranian lacky and easy mark. ”
Well it was inevitable that the usual “experts” would automatically start clucking “false flag”. Has anything ever happened that wasn’t a “false flag”?”
__________________
On my way back yesterday (and not in internet contact) I was wondering how long it would be before someone on here said the Sydney incident was a false flag.
Kempe’s post (above) shows me that it didn’t take long.
I agree with Kempe that absolutely everything is a false flag.
This blog is a false flag, designed to lure subversives and enemies of the state out into the open. The proof is that the mask occasionally slips, eg when the issue is Russia/Ukraine.
Sorted!
Friendship and polities, It’s not that simple in reality imo. I get that people need friendship/solidarity. But I think there are extents.
Take Bono for instance, “you only need one thing to like someone”. I think people who act so simply are quite shallow and dare I say blind people. And they want to be blind. Teletubby land with mass murderers.
I think people who act this way, when they do, don’t like to think of themselves as being political. But they inevitably are. Maybe It’s fine to say you like someone regardless. But to be political you have to think about your actions don’t you?
My hatred of political and upper classes isn’t necessarily personnel. The system corrupts and removes any real possibility taking in or emotionally processing there effects and actions. I don’t think human beings are built to cope with such influence. I think it sets up an identity that fixes itself to the ego and the actions that spring from that are wholly unnatural. Not that these people don’t emulate what they believe is good behaviour, or that they actually have some. But the ability to switch it off, to just not see what they are part of or basically ignore it. All that is corruption, (though I don’t use that term as simply on/off).
I have people I enjoy time with who I don’t agree with, I guess it’s lucky that none have any power to do what they think sometimes. But actually, if they could, without going through the corruption processes I don’t think many would, or I think they’d soon learn they have bad ideas. (Don’t we all) I just think ordinary people are more civilised.
Consequences. Most of us have to live with them in a way the political/upper class don’t. Again perhaps because underneath disagreement there is a club mentality. This is not good. Essentially it’s a massive clique. The tranquillising effect is bad with just small groups of people that hang together for ages. But when it’s whole institutions going back generations. This ain’t going to be a nice nut to crack.
Ant and dec. A great example. Don’t they really want to kill each-other? Is the money really worth spending massive amounts of time with the same person doing the same shit just strike people as a really unconscious way of living life? Screw that, I want to think freely, act freely. If anything it’s that aspect of people that attracts me more than political thoughts. Maybe if I saw not other option, or had no other experience. But why the hell would I want to be around people who are so up themselves? The phenomenon is hard enough to deal with outside it’s concentrated form.
And when I say freely, I don’t mean the ‘freedom’ to kill or torture people, a reactionary force to perceived limits or fulfilling some idea of a ‘proper order’ of domination because your pathetic. I mean the freedom to act as human beings. Something this society scorns on many levels. Cleanly shown in the last decade where people have hung out with murders, those that endorse torture, and totally ignored those who stood for basic civilised behaviour.
And i’d like to note (as I just thought of it) Bono is not his real name, many don’t use there real name. Yes I know it’s well known, but there is more to this than people think relating to the class stucture.
Several of the commenters on here are false flags as well, of course.
“Looks like Scotland’s the UK’s oil revenues* are going down the toilet, doesn’t it?”
The UK can always raise interest rates if need be, or devalue the pound but it probably won’t come to that, only a small portion of GDP is oil and gas and Britain is a net importer. What we lose on the swings we’ll make on the roundabouts.
An independent Scotland would have been going to Hell in a hand basket but the Nationalists wouldn’t care, they would just do what they always do, blame the English, works every time.
The UK can always raise interest rates if need be, or devalue the pound but it probably won’t come to that,
^Three deeply suspect statements, as usual unsupported.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1607881/When-UK-rates-rise.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9886000/The-Bank-of-England-cant-just-go-on-doing-down-the-pound.html
http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/entry/Another-financial-crisis-not-if-but-when
“^Three deeply suspect statements, as usual unsupported. ”
The UK has their own currency and their own central bank which an independent Scotland wouldn’t have had and 13% of GDP would have been from oil.
So how long are the Nationalists going to bullshit and try and blame Thatcher before they admit the 55% got it right?