The entire purpose of this blog is to ask you to think outside the box. It therefore cuts across the lines of dogma of any group, and is formed purely by my own independent thought. As I have frequently stated, if anybody agrees with every point I make, something is wrong.
This is going to annoy both left on Greece and right on banks, and my own party on the SNP and Labour. Here goes.
The citizens of the United Kingdom gave 45,000 pounds each, every man woman and child of them, direct to the bankers in bailouts. We will be paying off that money in taxes – with vast sums in interest to the same bankers, from whom we borrowed virtual money they did not have, to give to them as real money – for generations to come. Quantitive easing gives yet more money to the bankers, cash in place of risky bonds they wish to dump.
When you add it all together including interest, every man, woman and child in the UK will pay over 100,000 pounds each to the bankers, to bail out the bankers from the mess their own extreme greed had created. Indeed it is possible to argue rationally that the payment will be infinite, as the debt incurred will never be repaid but continually rolled over, and interest payments continue.
We did not have to do this. We could have let the bad banks go bust, started new ones, and boosted the economy by spending just 20% of the money we have given the banks on crucially needed public infrastructure works – railways, renewable energy, housing, insulation, hospitals, schools etc. But Gordon Brown and New Labour decided just to give money to the bankers instead.
In Greece, the people have actually given much less to the bankers for bailout than people in the UK. It is important to acknowledge that the causes of the Greek financial collapse are different. Greece was rather a recipient of bad lending, a country which received loans it could not possibly afford. Due to corrupt networks of elite collusion embracing both government and private sector, much of this money was simply siphoned out of the country into overseas accounts in London and Cyprus. The British people are suffering from the banking collapse through being forced to bail out the bankers. Greece is more in the position of somebody in a huge house who could not afford the mortgage – except for the vital distinction that all the people in Greece were paying the mortgage, but the large majority living in sheds behind the mansion.
I welcome Syriza’s victory as an indication that people are not content just to accept the narrative given them by the mainstream media and the parties in the pocket of corporations. I hope that they negotiate hard and force the banks to take a huge haircut on Greek sovereign debt. I acknowledge their commitment to social justice. But I do hope they will be realistic with both themselves and their people on the amount of blood, sweat and tears that is going to need to go in to building a productive Greek economy. An example of Keynesian stimulus is much needed by the rest of Europe.
Gordon Brown’s bank bailout was probably the biggest single gift any politician has ever given his corporate masters in the entire history of the world. It is worth reminding ourselves just how very right wing the Red Tories are. Not to mention the fact their front bench remains littered with war criminals. I therefore have grave reservations about Nicola Sturgeon’s weekend interview indication that the People of Scotland want a Labour Government with SNP support. I don’t. I am not going to elect somebody to represent me as chief bag carrier to a war criminal.
The SNP leadership remain infected by managerialism. It is easy to convince yourself you are doing good things while not changing anything fundamental, and at the same time building a very well paid career and a personal powerbase. I don’t want devo-max, I don’t want more powers, I don’t want something “as close to federalism as possible”. I want freedom for my country. I want independence. I want to live in a country which does not illegally invade other countries, collude in torture, carry out mass surveillance of its citizens, or possess nuclear weapons. The idea of running the Union a little bit better, making it a teeny bit more humane and competent, does not interest me. Nor does dulling the edge of austerity, when it is going to behead us anyway.
Besides which I am absolutely convinced the Tories will win the election, which will make all this jostling for position look rather foolish.
So some are getting ready to cut and run, if the Mirror is to be believed, (debatable at best) a revolution may well not be too far away.
How well-co-ordinated are the revolutionaries? And how well-co-ordinated is globalised finance? While the bastards are holding debt, they’re holding you, and it doesn’t matter if they’re on Mars.
“What audience do the BBC provide this for? It is not on Sky.”
____________________
Since when is being on Sky a criterion for anything, Mary?
Or should I call you Irma?
http://www.heretical.com/miscella/hhg.html
Note – the small green pieces of paper (“pound notes”) have been “withdrawn”, but the fundamental error in thinking remains.
Never mind the national politics, RoS. Let’s go for the universal principle. No state can be properly free unless – impossible dream, perhaps – unless it is free from usury. I think a lot of what is bothering us follows from that, and it heads my personal Bill of Rights.
___________________________
Ba’al
ah yes its the dream (for most anyway) the house, the car, the latest gadgets, but unfortunately Ba’al they’ve all got to be paid for.
The system strives to keep you working to pay your debts, to allow you to acquire more debts, don’t you just love it.
Meanwhile, you never stop to think, if, the system is wrong, you’re too busy working to pay off your debts.
As long as big business and the politicians, combined with the media continue to push this “must have society” people will fall for it enmasse.
[craigmurray.org.uk – comment delayed by spam filter]
The sad thing is that the more the Greeks have to cut down their economy, the less they will be able to pay their debts. The only way of getting money out of them is to allow them to earn any. Ant that wouldn’t be when 27% of them are unemployed, i.e. sitting on their ass doing nothing.
As Keynes understood long ago, the more you work, the more you earn, and the healthier the economy. Sad that his wisdom has been forgotten.
[craigmurray.org.uk – comment delayed by spam filter]
“In 2008, HSBC refused to take any bailout money and threatened to take the Labour government to court if it insisted otherwise. Barclays also rejected government money (but obtained funds from wealthy Arabs).”
before you elevate these two banks out of the line up , please remember they are known for other speculative and criminal misdemeanour’s. HSBC for
laundering drugs money, with not a single CEO being prosecuted for it.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-02/hsbc-judge-approves-1-9b-drug-money-laundering-accord.html
Barclays, just as some other banks, was involved in the Libor and Forex exchange rate fixing, just in case you’d forgotten, they have no reason to be above the parapet, not by an inch.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-27/n-y-barclays-libor-traders-said-to-face-u-k-charges.html
“How well-co-ordinated are the revolutionaries? And how well-co-ordinated is globalised finance? While the bastards are holding debt, they’re holding you, and it doesn’t matter if they’re on Mars.”
___________________________________
Ba’al
Globalised finance only holds sway, over the masses because we allow them to do so, imagine if people decided to stop paying enmasse, what then?
The bankers, and financiers, control the market on just about everything we buy, until we stop buying it.
I recall over 100.000 people marching through London a few years back demonstrating against the government.
If the Tories are returned to power and billions more austerity cuts enforced, who knows how many more people could become motivated for change.
I expected personal insults and that overreaction following my post about the transmission from Auschwitz.
In the studio there is commentary from Martin Winston of the Holocaust Education Trust and Phil Spencer of Kingston University who has written books on genocide.
Now Huw Edwards is coming live from Auschwitz. It is announced today that Cameron is having a Holocaust memorial built in Central London.
—
How about one for the Palestinians who have been murdered by the Israelis since al Nakba in 1948 Mr Cameron?
Some thoughts re debt;
https://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/greece-debt-default-and-moral-hazard/
And a good article here;
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/a_21st_century_left_rises_syrizas_victory_and_its_relevance_for_the_us_an
Mary, the fact that you know Huw Edwards is broadcasting means that you’re still watching…Why on earth are you doing that if holocaust commemoration offends and angers you so? Last I checked, freeview has 30 odd channels to choose from so nobody is forcing you to watch it.
Or are you like your namesake Mrs Whitehouse sitting there gnashing your teeth with fury and shock (while in her case, enjoying every minute of said offense) at what you’re having to witness?
The world would be a lot better – especially in the light of Charlie Hebdo – if we could find the off switch a little more readily and not look at that which offends us. It’s definitely better for the heart and blood pressure!
Hi Craig. I’m not one to normally engage in a reply to articles I read. But -here goes!
Most of what you said made sense to me, although I don’t understand concepts like Keynesian economics etc,.
How will a fundamental change to what money is (Fiat currency), and compelling any Government of the day to start printing it’s own, interest free money rather than effectively go to a privately owned Bank which is misleadingly named the Bank of England be brought about.
The reorganising of economic prosperity around the real wealth of a country which is based on what that countries population can produce along with sorting out it’s infra-stucture happen? I have contacted various MP’s including my own constituent MP – Mr G. Brown..and asked them all similar questions. All I ever get is vague replies or copies of the ‘Vickers report”. There is no political will to implement anything like the Glass-Steagal act etc,. I’m am very interested in real Independance, real Freedom but how can it be acheived when the System and it’s massive power structures will do all and everything they can to continue this enslavement which is happening before our very eyes!
I wish Greece every success and will watch it unfold with keen interest. Iceland also is worth a thought.
Thanks.
Will.
“Silence in the court. Pooh Bah,the self appointed expert on Greece and the Greek language has spoken.
“He does not like being given the facts because they cannot be disputed. All he can do is criticise the person who posted them.”
PERFECT example of what I was talking about on the previous thread.
So what did you mean when you said you want “NO contact” with Habbabkuk? Hm?
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/01/sam-adams-award/comment-page-2/#comment-505022
Habbabkuk (la vita è bella): (@ 27 Jan, 2015 – 4:45 pm), and also ‘FieldingGray’ (27 Jan,2015 – 5.27 pm)… ! Instead of you both, berating the most seriously helpful (in our ever humble opinion), pragmatic and progressively minded contributor to Mr Murray’s Blog, (the resplendent repository of reason and/or assiduously adduced, archival kernels of knowledge, herself, that is.. ‘Mary’), you perhaps should detach yourselves, for a brief moment or two, from your preferred online predilection, for petty, pompous, interminable and intemperate invective, on the imperious former FCO Ambassador’s ad hoc portal for polemical political propositions, and instead learn a little humility and uncharacteristic, chutzpah-devoid candour, in your cantankerous critiques, from this American Saint, Scholar, Scribe, and seriously sound humanitarian. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZBZX4ZxPjA&x-yt-cl=84838260&x-yt-ts=1422327029#t=102 ………………………………… http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12917
“Mary, the fact that you know Huw Edwards is broadcasting means that you’re still watching…Why on earth are you doing that if holocaust commemoration offends and angers you so?”
Excellent question.
@Will Mercer
Do you want me to start going into one about how many economists it takes to change a lightbulb…
“the resplendent repository of reason and/or assiduously adduced, archival kernels of knowledge, herself, that is.. ‘Mary’”
ROTFLMAO!
Jermynstreetjim
You do realise, don’t you, that this “resplendent repository of reason and/or assiduously adduced, archival kernels of knowledge” that you refer to, posts mostly — apart from little snide remarks from time to time — large chunks of copy and paste from other websites?
Anyone can posts chunks from Wikipedia. Doesn’t mean a lot.
And as for ‘reason’, when have you ever seen her debate anything – with anyone?
Go and adjust your glasses, Jim.
Han Wiklund
“The sad thing is that the more the Greeks have to cut down their economy, the less they will be able to pay their debts.”
__________________
You are right, but you should remember that the Memoranda provided for the Greek govt to take action on two fronts (there is of course some spill-over between them):
(1) getting the govt’s finances on a sound track, and (2) achieving structural reforms, without which competitivity and a healthy economy would not come about.
Unfortunately the Greek govts since the crisis have delivered on (1) but failed to deliver on (2). It goes without saying that the govts focussed on the easier of the two, namely (1) – it is easier to cut state salaries and pensions than to break the power of civil service and public utility unions or liberalising road haulage (just two examples among many more).
Dreoilin, you need to adjust your glasses too. Your 5:58 pm observation is valid. FieldingGray’s 5:27 pm assertion, which you supported, that “holocaust commemoration offends and angers [Mary]” is a misleading assertion, effectively a smear, attributing attitudes not expressed by Mary who was actually calling for balance.
Mary is rather knowledgeable about certain matters, and does good research in sources such as the Register of Member’s Interests. She also receives far more abuse on this site than she hands out.
“Together with “Republicofscotland”, you occasionally get too confident, or your touch slips, and you over-reach yourself just enough to reaffirm my belief that neither you nor he are quite what you seem. When I read a post like the one above I’m convinced that if you’re not provocateurs then you are, at the very least, not on here for the purpose of trying to be helpful. You are both either fakes or just fooling around.”
___________________________
Habb aka the shill, aka Guido.
Oh Dear, the establishment shill just about blows a gasket, I thought the man with the name of a Jewish prophet, would have been more calm and collected.
Or does he see himself as a Guido Orefice type character?(personally I see him as a Walter Mitty type) do you see yourself as Guido sees himself comical and sharp? do you have your own Dora at home?
Are you like Guido in possession of the “Perfect Aryan bellybutton”
While most of the world (at least the 99 percenters) are congratulating Greeks at the dawn of their new age of dignity, the Jerusalem Post warns that victory for Syriza is bad news for Israel. Upon reading the article, I could see why they’re concerned:
Alexis Tsipras party colleagues and his own inner circle have repeatedly attacked Israel and the Zionists claiming that they are not anti-Semitic, just anti-Zionist. Syriza’s former head, Nikos Konstandopoulos, has consistently offered his services as a defense lawyer for convicted and alleged Arab terrorists who have been arrested in Greece.
Last year, Tsipras stated that ‘”the world should make every possible effort so that Israel ends its criminal attack and brutality against Palestinians.”
Good to see Greece isn’t siding with the real terrorists, Bibi will be furious, good.
Dreoilin: At the risk of offending and ostracizing some of the less robust and impervious of pigmentation penetration, individuals on here, I can assure you, that Jim’s exclusively procured ( Cartier limited edition,(6) varifocals.. :-), require no consequential Ophthalmological attenuation, or forensically fashioned, fine-tuning, in order to read between the didactically disruptive, linguistic lines of likudnik leaning largesse, levelled at the more earnest and egalitarian emissaries on here, such as Mary, by ‘Habbabkuk’, the self-appointed, Hasbara Emeritus Professor of Ersatz Erudition & Life-long Pedantry, but that assertion, isn’t predicated upon any short-sighted & myopic, self-illusion/deception, on our part, but rather, the hard-won, accusatorially acquired, historiography of decades-old, intelligence-aware integrity….. 😉
Regarding the Holocaust there has been some twat on the BBC trying to stir up old problems as though one incident in a Jewish shop in France shows that the world is anti-Jewish. Everybody knows that next to the Nazi-Ukraine genocide in Eastern Ukraine (supported by Resident Dissident) the Israeli genocide in Palestine is one of the great crimes of the new century. Thus Habbabkuk attacked Mary.
“Holocaust Day sticks in your craw, does it? I’m not surprised.”
This was quite unjust and off topic. But of course Habbabkuk chooses what to answer and what not as we all do. I answered his question about the Greek debt. But he sidetracked when the greater debts of the US and UK were to be paid off. It is not a trick question. But he knows the answer and that is why he refuses. Anyway the answer is this: if Greece should be held to account so should the US and UK.
When the former Goldman Sachs executive who runs the European Central Bank (ECB) announced that he was going to print 720 billion euros annually with which to purchase bad debts from the politically connected big banks, the euro sank and the stock market and Swiss france shot up. As in the US, quantitative easing (QE) serves to enrich the already rich. It has no other purpose.
The well-heeled financial institutions that bought up the troubled sovereign debt of Greece, Italy, Portugal, and Spain at low prices will now sell the bonds to the ECB for high prices. And despite depression level unemployment in most of Europe and austerity imposed on citizens, the stock market rose in anticipation that much of the 60 billion new euros that will be created each month will find its way into equity prices. Liquidity fuels the stock market.
Where else can the money go to Some will go into Swiss francs and some into gold while gold is still available, but for the most part the ECB is running the printing press in order to boost the wealth of the stock-owning One Percent. The Federal Reserve and the ECB have taken the West back to the days when a handful of aristocrats owned everything.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/01/25/freedom-america-europe-pcr/
Clark
“Your 5:58 pm observation is valid.”
I know.
“FieldingGray’s 5:27 pm assertion, which you supported, that “holocaust commemoration offends and angers [Mary]” is a misleading assertion, effectively a smear, attributing attitudes not expressed by Mary who was actually calling for balance.”
No Clark, the first time round she asked, “What audience do the BBC provide this for? It is not on Sky.” The second time round, at 5.09pm, she spoke about Cameron’s proposed Holocaust memorial and said, “How about one for the Palestinians who have been murdered by the Israelis since al Nakba in 1948”. Almost like a PS. And that was in relation to Cameron’s plans to have a Holocaust memorial, not about the TV programme.
“Mary is rather knowledgeable about certain matters”
Can you list a few of them for me please?
“and does good research in sources such as the Register of Member’s Interests”
If people were that keen to know about them, they could go and look themselves. It’s hardly rocket science.
“She also receives far more abuse on this site than she hands out.”
That’s a matter of opinion, Clark.
———–
By the way, if anyone is interested, there is drone video footage here http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/holocaust-memorial-day-2015-auschwitz-concentration-camp-filmed-sky-drone-video-1485236 of what I assume is what’s left of Auschwitz concentration camp today. I and others have been surprised at its enormous size.
“but rather, the hard-won, accusatorially acquired, historiography of decades-old, intelligence-aware integrity…”
Jesus, Jim, I think you’ve got something caught in your throat. You might well wink!
http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/love-israeli-defence-force.html
Been on the Aangir management course. What next RumbleGuts?
Dreoilin said: I and others have been surprised at its enormous size.
That’s thw problem: following generations forget/distort history.
Everything the Nazis did, including the Holocaust, was legal under German law, because they made it so.
The horrendous laws that have been passed in USUK over the last decade or so are absolutely no different to what went on in Germany in the 1930s.
History never exactly repeats itself. What remains static is human nature.
“Holocaust Day sticks in your craw, does it? I’m not surprised.”
“This was quite unjust and off topic.” — John
John, in fairness, it was Mary who introduced the Auschwitz anniversary event, not Habbabkuk.
Craig, problem is people who support independence aren’t the only people in Scotland, nor were we a majority when it came to actually voting on it. Increased devolution seems to me the best bet for now, and, if delivered, will give people in Scotland a bit more protection from “welfare reform” and austerity. Another referendum when a big majority is not likely would really be risking no chance of another for a long time.
Devolution is not independence, but it does make serious differences. If we didn’t have devolution the Scottish NHS would already have the same degree of privatisation as England’s, there would be tuition fees in Scotland, the bedroom tax wouldn’t have been scrapped here, and there’d have been no referendum, nor any prospect of another.
If enough devolution to satisfy the majority of yes and no voters isn’t delivered within a few years, then another referendum would become a much safer bet for a yes vote.
While the banks should have been properly regulated, as they were in Canada and Norway, i can’t see how some kind of bank bail-out could be avoided if we weren’t going to risk runs on one bank after another, them all going under with everyone’s savings and an even worse crisis.
Quantitative easing money going just to the banks on the other hand is completely inexcusable – it should be given to people on low and middle incomes, and in grants and low interest loans to small and medium businesses and start-ups, to reduce poverty and boost both demand and growth.
“Everything the Nazis did, including the Holocaust, was legal under German law, because they made it so.” — RobG
Yes, indeed. And the US (in particular I think) have done their best to pull off a repeat of that.