The entire purpose of this blog is to ask you to think outside the box. It therefore cuts across the lines of dogma of any group, and is formed purely by my own independent thought. As I have frequently stated, if anybody agrees with every point I make, something is wrong.
This is going to annoy both left on Greece and right on banks, and my own party on the SNP and Labour. Here goes.
The citizens of the United Kingdom gave 45,000 pounds each, every man woman and child of them, direct to the bankers in bailouts. We will be paying off that money in taxes – with vast sums in interest to the same bankers, from whom we borrowed virtual money they did not have, to give to them as real money – for generations to come. Quantitive easing gives yet more money to the bankers, cash in place of risky bonds they wish to dump.
When you add it all together including interest, every man, woman and child in the UK will pay over 100,000 pounds each to the bankers, to bail out the bankers from the mess their own extreme greed had created. Indeed it is possible to argue rationally that the payment will be infinite, as the debt incurred will never be repaid but continually rolled over, and interest payments continue.
We did not have to do this. We could have let the bad banks go bust, started new ones, and boosted the economy by spending just 20% of the money we have given the banks on crucially needed public infrastructure works – railways, renewable energy, housing, insulation, hospitals, schools etc. But Gordon Brown and New Labour decided just to give money to the bankers instead.
In Greece, the people have actually given much less to the bankers for bailout than people in the UK. It is important to acknowledge that the causes of the Greek financial collapse are different. Greece was rather a recipient of bad lending, a country which received loans it could not possibly afford. Due to corrupt networks of elite collusion embracing both government and private sector, much of this money was simply siphoned out of the country into overseas accounts in London and Cyprus. The British people are suffering from the banking collapse through being forced to bail out the bankers. Greece is more in the position of somebody in a huge house who could not afford the mortgage – except for the vital distinction that all the people in Greece were paying the mortgage, but the large majority living in sheds behind the mansion.
I welcome Syriza’s victory as an indication that people are not content just to accept the narrative given them by the mainstream media and the parties in the pocket of corporations. I hope that they negotiate hard and force the banks to take a huge haircut on Greek sovereign debt. I acknowledge their commitment to social justice. But I do hope they will be realistic with both themselves and their people on the amount of blood, sweat and tears that is going to need to go in to building a productive Greek economy. An example of Keynesian stimulus is much needed by the rest of Europe.
Gordon Brown’s bank bailout was probably the biggest single gift any politician has ever given his corporate masters in the entire history of the world. It is worth reminding ourselves just how very right wing the Red Tories are. Not to mention the fact their front bench remains littered with war criminals. I therefore have grave reservations about Nicola Sturgeon’s weekend interview indication that the People of Scotland want a Labour Government with SNP support. I don’t. I am not going to elect somebody to represent me as chief bag carrier to a war criminal.
The SNP leadership remain infected by managerialism. It is easy to convince yourself you are doing good things while not changing anything fundamental, and at the same time building a very well paid career and a personal powerbase. I don’t want devo-max, I don’t want more powers, I don’t want something “as close to federalism as possible”. I want freedom for my country. I want independence. I want to live in a country which does not illegally invade other countries, collude in torture, carry out mass surveillance of its citizens, or possess nuclear weapons. The idea of running the Union a little bit better, making it a teeny bit more humane and competent, does not interest me. Nor does dulling the edge of austerity, when it is going to behead us anyway.
Besides which I am absolutely convinced the Tories will win the election, which will make all this jostling for position look rather foolish.
Syriza’s leadership are far more moderate than they are often presented as being. They are asking for half of Greece’s debts to be written off and an end to austerity. Since Germany got massive aid through the Marshall Plan, plus half its debts written off in the 1953 London Debt Agreement, their position on Greece is actually pretty hypocritical.
Unfortunately that and opinion polls in Greece showing most Greeks want to stay in the Euro weaken their position, which, if they threatened to pull out of the Euro and let Spain, Portugal and Italy start falling out like dominoes, could actually be pretty strong.
RoS (pre- the current outbreak of horrorcaust memorialisation) –
The bankers, and financiers, control the market on just about everything we buy, until we stop buying it.
Exactly so. But I think you are reaching for the musket and building the barricade before you have a consensus against the view that ‘ok, it’s pretty shit round here, but it can’t last forever, and one day I’ll be rich too so it won’t matter’. A lot of very intense and credible education will have to happen, and the momentum must be maintained over a period of years before dismantling the system is even possible. And popular uprisings by an unarmed populace are frighteningly easily suppressed, or, worse, subverted. History – and Uzbek in the UK, IMO rightly – indicate that the active involvement of the bourgeoisie has to be obtained, and the bourgeoisie is far from being on the economic ropes yet.
IOW, the time is not yet remotely right. Civil disobedience and non-payment will work for clear issues, like the poll tax, on which there is widespread agreement, and which can be clearly defined. As yet, there is no agreed definition, no focal point – no slogan*, even, around which a consensus to scrap the global economic system, even locally, can be constructed. But I’d suggest “Hang the Usurers” as a candidate.
*such as “Independence for Scotland”… which permits globalists seeing a profit in independence to vote for it, and actually doesn’t address the real problem….which is part of what Craig’s getting at, I think.
Anyway, good to debate it.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article186522.html
I’ve been watching and listening to this today
Another child, another war – mick blake
“My humble contribution to the plight of the surviving children of Gaza…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RBOVMnI3Xg#t=270
@Mods …If my comment from 4.55 is chewed up out of recognition, there is no point in displaying it here. It had a reference to Andrews post, the person I was replying to.
[craigmurray.org.uk – your comment was found in the spam filter. Its submission time was edited so it would be seen by people reading the latest comments and a notice was added saying it had been delayed. It was not edited in any other way, so I don’t know what you mean by ‘chewed up’. If there’s a problem, please repost]
“John, in fairness, it was Mary who introduced the Auschwitz anniversary event, not Habbabkuk.”
Yes I knew that Dreoilin thanks. It was more a response to this comment by Habbabkuk who purports not to answer off-topic questions (when it suits him). Ironically it was on topic.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/01/greece-london-scotland-and-europe/#comment-505336
A postscript re the BBC output today.
The coverage has been excessive in my opinion.
The long live transmission from Auschwitz was followed by Huw Edwards at Auschwitz speaking to Fergal Keane at his poetic best. Yes Paris did come into it and we were told of a rise in anti-semitism. That is completely unsubstantiated.
Then came the 6pm news with more from Edwards with Philip Hammond. Yes. More about Paris. Then the local BBC South news had an item about school children attending a holocaust remembrance service. They will be taking the candle, which they were seen lighting, to Auschwitz, which they will visit shortly via the HET. Then a trailer for Dimbleby’s holocaust programme on BBC2 later on.
In the news, Cameron was shown speaking at a ceremony in London with the heir to the throne and wife. There was a female reporter outside enlarging on the moving poetry and words.
Cameron is spending £50m on a holocaust memorial and education centre in Central London. There is obviously money available for some projects.
This is the BBC Holocaust ‘Season’ after all, which I spoken of before. That title is in bad taste as if it a film season or some other branch of the entertainment industry. There is an agenda given to the Beeb by the Zionist supporting government. The Palestinians do not get a look in.
Why was I watching it someone asked. Should I wear a blindfold and ear plugs. Shouldn’t we know what is going on around us?
As for Dreolin’s acid remarks, sometimes linked to thebtroll’s, I take no notice. She doesn’t like me (nor me her for that matter) and she never ever fails to put the boot in when she has the opportunity.
Dreoilin
27 Jan, 2015 – 8:06 pm
“Yes, indeed. And the US (in particular I think) have done their best to pull off a repeat of that.”
The Patriot Act being the best example: thousands of pages of legal gobbledygook that miraculously appeared just days after 9/11. In the hysteria of the time, most members of Congress didn’t even have a chance to glance at it before voting it into law.
Another good one is the NDAA 2012, which Obama signed into law on New Year’s Eve 2011, when he thought that no one was looking. The NDAA, amongst other things, means that American citizens can be held indefinitely without trial.
America’s poodle has followed with exactly the same laws.
Most people in the UK do not realise that they live in a police state.
Try protesting, if you don’t believe me (and by the way, peaceful protest is now also illegal, just as it is in the USA).
This has all been written into law.
Dreoilin, it is true that anyone can explore the Register of Member’s Interests and company account records lodged with the authorities, but Mary actually does so, thereby performing a service to our blog community. Part of the hacker ethic is that “no problem should ever have to be solved twice” because brain-power is a limited resource:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
I regard pro-“Western” bias in the “Western” media to be well established; pro-Israel bias from the BBC has been documented by Craig on this site:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/01/biased_broadcas/
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/07/so-soon-forgotten/
Mary specialises in activism promoting justice for the Palestinians. She is knowledgeable about the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict and about pro-Israel influence within the British establishment. Mary often links to progressive Israeli sources and to Jewish groups that oppose Israel’s racism and expansionism. From comments of hers that I have seen on this site, she has visited the Occupied Territories and has been in contact with medical professionals who have volunteered to treat people, particularly children, who have been severely injured by Israeli military action. This shows considerable commitment to the cause, well beyond any contribution I’ve ever made myself, and it wins her my respect.
On this very thread Habbabkuk has suggested very unpleasant images of Mary which will have a tendency to stick in people’s minds despite being unwarranted – this is the essence of smear tactics, and I’m very disappointed to see you justifying it.
I know that you personally have had arguments with Mary and I wish you would put these to one side, for the sake of the Palestinians if nothing else. It is always possible to find criticism if one is looking for fault. Given the media and establishment bias that Mary and other pro-Palestinian activists face, I think a little resentment and suspicion is understandable.
“A postscript re the BBC output today.
The coverage has been excessive in my opinion.”
The survivors wanted to make the 70th anniversary a big one because on the 80th anniversary most of them won’t be here.
Ive noticed a good few MSM broadcasts referring not to the new Greek Govt but rather the “radical new Greek Govt.”
Looks like the Common Purpose droids reading the autocues have received their NLP orders…
RobG
Yes, but I should have been more explicit. I was talking about efforts under GW to legalise “enhanced interrogation techniques” – i.e. torture – which is forbidden not only under international law, but domestic law in the US.
The UK, on the other hand, is trying to argue that it was not directly involved. Not “hands on” at it were. At least there haven’t been attempts to legalise it?
——-
“she never ever fails to put the boot in when she has the opportunity.”
Well you walked right into it with your ‘Pooh Bah’ comment, didn’t you. After telling me to “sheath my claws like a good cat” on the previous thread.
And something else, Mary, when Fedup suggested that I was a Zionist-enabler, you jumped in to support him, saying you had thought of me as a supporter of Palestinians, but “maybe I was wrong”. That was downright nasty, but you have to support your fan club, I suppose. I consider you a hypocrite, Mary. And quite possibly a liar.
“On this very thread Habbabkuk has suggested very unpleasant images of Mary which will have a tendency to stick in people’s minds despite being unwarranted – this is the essence of smear tactics, and I’m very disappointed to see you justifying it.”
Where? Where did I justify any of Habbabkuk’s images on this thread?
The survivors wanted to make the 70th anniversary a big one because on the 80th anniversary most of them won’t be here.
Fine, but all media everywhere? And the insistence that we (who in the UK didn’t do it) must make due obeisance to the event in order that nothing like it ever happens again, is patently false. It’s happening again and again, particularly in Africa, and I think Gaza has already been mentioned today..nary a squeak from the Jewish homeland. Again, promoting your own special interests and lecturing the rest of the world doesn’t meke you any friends. Enough, already.
“Given the media and establishment bias that Mary and other pro-Palestinian activists face, I think a little resentment and suspicion is understandable.”
From whom? I’ve been a member of the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign for years. And a supporter of the BDS movement. (As Mary well knows). But when Fedup (the idiot) tried to tar me with a pro-Zionist label, Mary tried to cast suspicion on me immediately.
Try and be more objective Clark. You’re seeing what you want to see.
“But when Fedup (the idiot) tried to tar me with a pro-Zionist label”
Ok, should have been “brush” not “label”.
As Cardinal Galen pointed out in his sermon against euthanasia, the German law against murder remained in effect under the Nazis. And the fact that the German government did not arrest Galen and backed down, drastically scaling down the euthanasia program, and did what euthanasia it continued to do only in secretly effectively conceded his point.
“Everybody knows that next to the Nazi-Ukraine genocide in Eastern Ukraine (supported by Resident Dissident)”
Piss off you stupid c**t.
Other notable events today, worth a passing mention –
Baird first demonstrated his television, 1926
Siege of Leningrad ended, 1944 (1.5 million Rusians dead, 1.4 million displaced)
On second thoughts, forget the television…
Another child, another war – mick blake
“My humble contribution to the plight of the surviving children of Gaza…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RBOVMnI3Xg#t=270
Please watch and listen to this. It is dedicated (ironically) to the Israeli Ambassador to Ireland, and his wife, who appears to be allowed to say – and write, on Facebook for example – whatever she likes. Her remarks about the Irish people are given in the introduction. The song is lovely.
Although the Jews were most affected by the holocaust, you could be forgiven for thinking if you watched the MSM coverage of the event today that they were the only group affected which is untrue. What about the physically disabled, homosexuals and the mentally ill?
Why don’t we also have similar days for genocides in Cambodia, Bosnia and Rwanda?
Some of the television commentators seemed to make much of Anti-Semitism attacks particularly in the UK although there is little real evidence to support this. I don’t hear of a mass exodus of Jewish groups wanting to leave in fear of their lives.
Even Stephen Speelberg got in on it too and he even made a short film all about it in case we dare to forget.
Dreoilin, I agree that Mary sometimes replies, by name, with apparent approval to other commenters, presumably as she sees them as being “on her side”. I regret this, and I oppose this whole tendency for “sides” to develop, which is one of the reasons I’ve been debunking various wild “conspiracy theories” recently. My own approach is to endorse any valid point that has been made, but disavow any support from the commenter if I feel it to be necessary; an example I wish Mary would follow.
I’ve reviewed the thread and apologise for accusing you of supporting Habbabkuk’s smear tactics; it was FieldingGray that you supported, and my misapprehension coalesced around your 8:01 pm comment. See how erroneous impressions can be so easily formed? Yes, I too can fall into the trap of polarisation; it’s a lamentable human tendency which empowers “divide and conquer” techniques and has all-out war as its ultimate expression.
This has all been about a personal argument. I generally try to minimise those by ignoring them, but this one between you and Mary keeps rearing its ugly head. I wish you’d both make the effort (yes, you too, Mary) to settle your differences and put the matter behind you – alternately trading blame will not achieve this, and ultimately your objectives share far more in common than they have differences.
Best wishes to you both. Peace.
Why don’t we also have similar days for genocides in Cambodia, Bosnia and Rwanda?
Quite. I’d suggest a World Murder Remembrance Day, covering all sorts and classes of atrocity without distinction. It could be on January 27th, but you’d be as free to remember Gazan civilians in Jerusalem as Jewish ones in Berlin. Fair enough?
“Fine, but all media everywhere?”
Don’t know about that, I don’t see too much in the way of media.
People on this blog certainly gave it plenty of attention though.
People on this blog certainly gave it plenty of attention though.
But not you, eh?
“Why don’t we also have similar days for genocides in Cambodia, Bosnia and Rwanda?”
How about for the rest of the civilians killed in WW2? And for the ones more recently killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? How about shelling out more than £3000 compensation to their relatives?
And how about prosecuting the perpetrators of aggressive wars? Instead of them being allowed to attend Holocaust events as if they weren’t war criminals themselves?
Parky
27/01/2015 10:17 pm
“Although the Jews were most affected by the holocaust, you could be forgiven for thinking if you watched the MSM coverage of the event today that they were the only group affected which is untrue. What about the physically disabled, homosexuals and the mentally ill?”
I haven’t been following the coverage, but surely if they have not been mentioned we should remember the Roma people and the Slavic peoples, millions of whom were also murdered. In fact, I would be surprised and disappointed if *all* racial and cultural groups targeted by the Nazis are not being remembered
Warm regards,
John
“alternately trading blame will not achieve this, and ultimately your objectives share far more in common than they have differences.”
That’s true, Clark, and I’ll try and smooth my hackles in future if I feel them rising. I hope Mary will do the same.
Beannacht – blessings
I must go offline – g’night all
Dreoilin, thanks, and thanks for the link to that very poignant video.
To Komodo with thanks – Martin Noakes song ‘The Trial of Tony Blair’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUtikPtdT-s