There is no question to which the answer is to wander round killing people. It takes a few words or keystrokes for any right thinking person to condemn the killings in Paris today. But that really doesn’t take us very far.
It is impossible to stop evil from happening. Simple low tech attacks by individuals, a kind of DIY terrorism, cannot always be pre-empted. If you try to do so universally, you will end up even further down the line we have gone down in the UK, where people are continually arrested and harassed who have no connection to terrorism at all, often for bragging on websites. These non-existent foiled terrorist plots are a risible feature of British politics nowadays. Every now and then one hits the headlines, like the arrests just before Remembrance Day. Their defining characteristic is that none of those arrested have any means of terrorism – 99% of those arrested for terrorism in the UK in the last decade – possessed no weapon and no viable explosive device.
In fact the only terrorist in the last year convicted in the UK, who possessed an actual bomb – a very viable explosive device indeed, was not charged with terrorism. He was a fascist named Ryan McGee who had a swastika on his wall and hated Muslims. Hundreds of Muslims with no weapons are locked up for terrorism. A fanatical anti-Muslim with a bomb is by definition not a terrorist.
I am assuming that the narrative that Charlie Hebdo was attacked by Islamists is correct, though that remains to be proved. For argument, let us assume the official narrative is true and the killings were by Muslims outraged at the magazine’s depictions of the Prophet Mohammed.
It is essential to free speech that it includes the freedom to offend. That must include the freedom to offend religious belief. Without such freedoms, the values of societies would freeze. Much social progress has caused real anguish and offence to some people. To have stopped Charlie Hebdo by law would have been wrong. To stop them by bullets is beyond any mitigation.
But that doesn’t make the unfortunate deceased heroes, and President Hollande was wrong to characterise them as such. Being murdered does not make you a hero. And being offensive is not necessarily noble. People who are persistently and vociferously offensive are often neither noble nor well-motivated. Much of Charlie Hebdo‘s taunting of Muslims was really unpleasant. That they also had Christian and other targets did not make this any better. It is not Private Eye – it is a magazine with a much nastier edge. I defend the right of Charlie Hebdo to publish whatever it wants. But once the shock dies off, I do hope a more realistic assessment of whether Charlie Hebdo was entirely admirable or not may be possible. This in no way excuses the dreadful murders.
The ability to say things that offend is an important attribute of a free society. Richard Dawkins may offend believers. Peter Tatchell may offend homophobes. Pussy Riot offended Putin and the Orthodox Church. This must not be stopped.
But that must cut both ways. Abu Qatada broke no British laws in his lengthy stay in the UK, but was demonised for things he said (or even things newspapers invented he had said). Most of the French who are today in solidarity for freedom of expression, are against people being able to express themselves freely in what they wear. The security industry who are all over TV today want to respond to this attack on freedom of expression by more controls on the internet!
I condemn, you condemn, we all condemn, and so we should. But the amount of nuanced thought in the mainstream media is almost non-existent. What will now happen is that conservative commentators will rip individual phrases from this article and tweet them to show I support terrorism. The lack of nuanced thought is a reflection of a general atmosphere of anti-intellectualism which has poisoned public life in modern western society.
I recall the ‘bad old days’ James including actions in Ireland. I was in County Donegal in a British army camp and against my own safety learning from local folks. Do not surmise. The ‘mindwashed loons’ are the same identity as those that lied us into a war with Iraq and the absolute destruction and genocide that carnage mothered.
@Macky 9/1/15 20:49 “@Clark, not sure why you are addressing me iro the Paris murders, as I haven’t expressed an opinion as to whetever they might be false flags or not…”
Macky, you appear to be labouring under the false impression that anyone might be interested.
Time for you to start one of your tedious replies with “Oh dear…” 😉
Mark…..
You must have been “Special Branch” or “The Det” then !
You say you were sat in a Brit Camp in Donegal ?
And whilst I now think you are/were part of “The Det”…
….the things you say are a bit “odd”.
1. There were lies about the Iraq “war” ……but that does not mean those that follow Islam are not mind washed. They are.
You just “slipped up” Mark ! Big Time
Glenn; “Macky, you appear to be labouring under the false impression that anyone might be interested”
Yet you are interested enough to make this petty snipe; can’t recall last time we crossed swords, but obviously you are still smarting.
@Macky: Nah, just tired of your self-referential BS. That’s all.
Craig,
Speaking of “terrorism” – I recall that I wrote something directed to and against Professor Juan Cole, when he, in a most opportunistic and obscene way supported the US/NATO bombings of Libya and I wrote something about which I think that history, by now, has absolved me:-
End the bombing of Libya
Courtenay Barnett
An open letter to Professor Juan Cole
As a professor and an influential voice on the internet, I am appealing to you to stop supporting, be it implicitly or explicitly, the criminal bombardment of the Libyan people by the US/NATO attacks.
The facts, and my opinion, based on same, are these:-
The state of Libya and its political position vis-a- vis rebellion
1. Libya is a tribal society and there is a measure of dissent in the East, and more particularly around the hub of Benghazi.
2. This is not the same kind of „Arab spring‟ as one has witnessed in Tunisia or in Egypt. The US lent its support to the leaders of Tunisia and Egypt up to the very end then a the last moment professed to welcome the people’s change. In Libya it has been about 2 months of bombardment, and internally it must by now be clear that Gadaffi has significant support amongst his people, for clearly with an extension of another 3 months of planned bombings, NATO must admit that Gadaffi does have strong internal support amongst his people that compels this long extension. One can contrast the use of force by CIA supported “rebels” versus the ground swell of popular support that in a short time, without arms, toppled the leadership in Tunisia and Egypt.
The legal aspects
3. Resolution 1973 is a lawfully passed UN Resolution for the imposition of a no-fly zone. It does not however extend to, nor lawfully sanction, the assassination attempts upon Gadaffi ( cf. point 2 above – for that the failure so far to dislodge Gadaffi and effect regime change – explains this illegality). The efforts at regime change are under international law – illegal.
4. President Obama has circumvented US domestic law, by reference to the statutory stipulations of the War Powers Act.
2
5. Should the people of Harlem take up arms in rebellion against the US government, and seek to separate itself from the continental US ( cf. Waco) – what would one have the established government do – accede or resist?
The economic dimension
6. It is an odd peace-keeping and humanitarian mission that sees a sovereign country’s assets frozen in the billions, while a faction of the country’s population takes up arms against the leader and commandeers oil and sells on the international market, a portion of the country’s assets – its oil.
How does one establish a central bank, where a minority faction of the Libyan population, assisted by external interests, and yet pretend that somehow there is majority widespread dissent?
The political dimension
7. The African Union is the legitimate voice within Africa and internationally, to broker a peace-deal between the warring factions. The sooner that this is accomplished the better for the saving of civilian lives across Libya:-
See: http://rt.com/news/nato-admits-civilian-deaths/
The moral dimension
8. Using the fig-leaf of Resolution 1973 to cover the war of aggression being waged cannot be supported. There is a difference between having war planes police designated territorial areas to enforce a no-fly zone. That policing activity as sanctioned by the United Nations is a far cry removed from showering down “shock and awe” upon the people of Libya in an effort to create sufficient chaos in Libya to effect regime change.
9. Again, stalling for time to effect more bombardment, and NATO turning its back on the entreaties of the AU to broker a peace-deal is nothing short of amoral.
10. Having witnessed the lies that led to the war in Iraq; the pretext of a humanitarian mission to assist the Iraqi people; the utter destruction of Iraq with sanctions and bombs and the killing or deaths of some one million Iraqis arising from the occupation – what can you now convince sentient beings about, with this latest repeat of the slaughter in Libya – orchestrated by the same powers?
3
I commend my ten ( 10 ) points to you for a revising and re-think about where truths, rights and justice really reside in this bloody conflict in Libya. Professor – to call NATO‟S opportunist war of aggression anything less than by its true name – illegal – is to embrace a narrative from the West that wholly lacks credibility.
Respectfully,
Courtenay Barnett (Attorney-at-Law)
“I recall the ‘bad old days’ James including actions in Ireland. I was in County Donegal in a British army camp”
In Donegal? In the Republic???
My point Dreoilin…..
Ole Mark was in “The Det” …..because as sure as hell he wasn’t anything else.
And yet the fella “screams” “INJUSTICE” and “WHAT IS GOING ON”….. but as I recall, unless I was dreaming…..Donny was always to “the South” when The Troubles were about.
It is much the same with these “gog shites” here I think.
Never lived one day past in any troubled part….but “by Gad ya” they’re tell you what’s what.
Tin foil hatters I say.
Tin hatters and gob shites.
…even the fella above will tell you about “terrorism”…..
….from his arm chair.
My mother would utter “piss and wind”.
And she was right !
Mark is quite right, as always.
The NI affair was a peculiarly British affair.
A fight between British atlanticists and British nationalists. Still ongoing, by the way.
Those who think it had anything to do with Irish independence are very sadly mistaken.
And, it’s always like this, all over the world.
The original Irish independence fight was in reality a fight between the US and the UK. A proxy affair.
That’s the way it works, and if you think about it, it can’t really work any other way.
How could it.
@YouKnowMyName: (9/1/15, 01:39) – Interesting points. I’m aware of GLADIO, but bear in mind that was about a stay-behind army, practicing insurrection in the event of a complete Soviet takeover. More sabotage than pin-pointed acts of revenge-terrorism.
If you were looking for trouble, and had to choose a target for taking the piss out of an insane religion, can you think of a better match?
Since we know there are severely deluded nut-cases in every religion – all of them are to some degree – which combination of provocation and religious crank do you suppose would bring about the most violent response?
This does not require an advanced conspiracy theory.
*
YNMN: “I’ll just leave you with this poser, WHY in suburban Manchester in 2015 should an ‘retired’ ex-para have a secure basement stuffed with assorted heavy assault weaponry, munition, comms? WHAT department in the UK allows a small armoury to exist in an otherwise normal city centre? I know Putin is dangerous but is he really going to invade Lancashire, soon?”
Hell if I know! But why should that whack-job have been taken down so easily, if he had his entire “Establishment” network guarding his back?
Gosh – couldn’t just be some right-wing nut with a few screws rattled loose, could it? Naah! That’s a crazy idea!
@RobG: Interesting, please keep it up! Only goes to show the latest technology is not necessary. Resist “upgrades”. But I have to disagree – MS never did even halfway decent Operating Systems, not even back in the 90s. Of course they have got worse since, which makes public acceptance of societal retrograde technology ever more worrying.
I know the ‘policeman on the ground’ ‘shooting’ has been discussed; here it is in slow motion: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sfgoqb0d2k5wq9p/FAKE%2520PARIS%2520SHOOTING%2520BLANKS%2520Jan%25207th%25202015%2520FRENCH%2520SATIRE%2520With%2520Slow%2520Motion-HD.mp4?dl=0
sure doesn’t look right to me. No blood visible, head in one piece, from an AK47 point-blank shot? I believe people were killed in the CH offices, and in the ‘siege’, but by who? And I’m pretty sure they will present the bodies, or clear pics, of the dead brothers (like they did with one of the Boston brothers).
France had angered Israel with it’s pro-Palestine votes; what better way to both punish France, and further demonise the Muslims so the French people would be further brainwashed that ‘Muslims are our enemy’.
I don’t know how many of you are knowledgeable about ‘Operation Gladio’, a CIA/NATO gang of thugs. Originally formed after WWII in Europe by the CIA as a ‘Stay-Behind Army’ in case Russia invaded, it morphed into a structure to cause a ‘Strategy of Tension’ in Europe. Bombs were set off, Supermarkets were raked with gunfire, policemen and random men, women and children were murdered, and it was all blamed on the ‘Reds’. The worst attack was the Bologna train station bombing, with 85 dead and some 200 injured. All to make sure the Euro-Communists didn’t get into Parliaments via the ballot box, even in coalitions (that’s why Aldo Moro was kidnapped and killed; he had been personally threatened by Kissinger. The day of the abduction, he was going to announce to Parliament that the Communists were to be admitted as part of the Coalition (or to propose as much). Here is an excellent 2 1/2 hour video of the 3 Gladio documentary series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHXjO8wHsA
The point of all this is, yes, the West (or Israel) have no qualms about killing innocent people to further their ends. The ‘Gladio’ killings were to discredit and demonise the ‘Reds’; all the recent ‘False Flags’ are to demonise the Muslims, the new ‘Reds'(and I believe CH is another of these False Flags). Could be wrong, but that’s what it looks like to me.
The probable scenario was the two brothers were taken to the siege, shot, and their killers ‘merged’ with their mates when the Fuzz entered the building.
In this free-for-all thread about terrorism, don’t forget loony Colleen LaRose’s entreaties to set me up as her whitey, Islamic assassin of Swedish cartoonist Lars Vilks because I threatened to throw a shoe at the agent privateer at a lecture at the University of Uppsala.
Despite her aka ‘Jihaqd Jane’s offers of engaging in sexual orgies to make her babies, it was only she who went off to the cooler for a long time.
So much for Western ethics!
Technicolour and Clark, since you are actively on the side of the Islamists, at least in the propaganda war, can you provide us all with a detailed defence of Islam in relation to this –
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/boko-harams-deadliest-terrorist-attack-2015-1
If you can’t, perhaps you’d like to volunteer to go to Nigeria to help clean up the mess and console the survivors.
Has anybody noticed how Libturds insist that depictions of the Prophet Mohammed incite acts of violence while denying that a 1500 year old Arabic book on the violent conquest of humanity does not?
How does that work anywhere in the universe other than in the twisted mind of a self-hating Libturd? Don’t bother asking them because they don’t have an answer. At least not one that is intelligible to a rational being.
Tony M, are you open minded enough to consider the possibility that Martians were responsible for those attacks to lay the path to an Earth invasion? Will you not even be prepared to acknowledge the possibility, despite there being absolutely no evidence, even if the probablity is infintesimal?
Can someone please check on Macky to see if he is ok? I fear that he has been either murdered or kidnapped and held captive for ransom as an intelligent impostor is comments in his name to destroy his reputation.
Clark, the more you dig yourself in, the deeper you find yourself in the abyss of Islam apologia.
@Glenn, 12.18am
You can make anyone look like anything you want when you frag their comments and paste select pieces together like the letters in a ransom note. To ommit salient details is the job of a hack propagandist working in the back office of the Ministry of “Information”.
Clark has never apologised nor even admitted to being wrong on anything in all of the conversations I have had with him. Just recently he acknowledged that I was right on one point, but chose his words carefully in order to evade any appearance of being wrong.
I should expect then, that you approve of Clark’s solid endorsement of this blog’s resident Jew-hater, the irrepressible cut-n-paster, Jihad Mary. (note how she doesn’t make appearances on threads that cause her embarrassment)
“Has anybody noticed how Libturds insist that depictions of the Prophet Mohammed incite acts of violence ”
And then some of them are only too happy to reshow/link to such images (often in a doctored form to increase the offence) while at the same time giving lectures on hypocrisy. Their real purpose being just to whip things up even more in order to bring forward the “revolution”. BTW I would drop the “lib” part of the description – liberalism really was never part of their ideology – real liberals would prefer that people would exercise self restraint and not seek to offend in the first place, but if they want to do so then they should also accept the criticism in response. Violence as a response is of course never acceptable.
Je suis Charlie
Thousands of olive trees have been damaged and destroyed in attacks by illegal Jewish settlers across the occupied West Bank in 2013. The damning statistics have been revealed by Al-Tadamun Foundation for Human Rights.
The Israeli regime has uprooted more than 800,000 olive trees in the occupied Palestinian territories since 1967.
http://en.alalam.ir/news/1590780
The Nature of ISIS
Saudi royal family behind ISIL/ISIS/IS/Khorasan Group
http://en.alalam.ir/news/1563016
@Glenn 4:23am
Sorry, I’m not referring to right-wing nuts, I’m referring to nice retired para/SBS who are extant living in the British community with a massive covert arsenal. I can give you the address in Manchester if you wish? I expect he/she is just one of many STILL FUNCTIONING “Gladio” in the UK. I, obviously, am not briefed on this, so I cannot work out why they exist in UK society, they do inhabit normal domestic scenes in cities and towns across the UK – it’s not any particular faction of gov/politics/religion that I can analyse, just very loyal ex special forces…..and btw thanks for continuing to validate/discuss this point with me!
I hope they aren’t needed to be deployed in the near future, I can’t see that UK society as a whole is improved with Gadio2015 available for someone to deploy, I personally am not good enough at Game theory to do the red/blue planning that *needs* a UK covert suburban para force, I suppose someone in (hopefully) Whitehall has done the ‘what if’ that leads/led to this strategic deployment. SIS have my phone number if they need more info, if it isn’t “one of ours!”
Two current members of the Congress and representatives of families who lost loved ones in the 9/11attacks, once again urge the Obama administration to declassify the document shows Saudi Arabia roles in the attack.
US President Barack Obama has planned a March visit to Saudi Arabia to meet with Saudi King Abdullah and soothe Saudi concerns about Washington’s policy towards Iran and Syria.
http://en.alalam.ir/news/1664365
Thanks to the clarity and understanding of President Vladimir Putin we can commit to memory the major points of issue that Prince Bandar bin Sultan discussed with Vladimir during a four hour bilateral meeting held in Russia in secret.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politics/2013/08/saudi-russia-putin-bandar-meeting-syria-egypt.html#
Bandar emboldened by his little tattle with traitor, ars’ol and François Gérard Hollande’s stooge, Manaf Tlas, a former Brigadier General of the Syrian Republican Guard and member of Bashar al-Assad’s inner circle threatened Putin with terrorism, the like of which we have witnessed a short while ago in France.
Yet Prince Bandar’s crude attempt at payoff, bribery and oil deals failed to engage and ‘hire’ Putin and he was humiliated and demoted to envoy.
I do believe Vladimir Putin gave the carrot to his horse after breaking-up the stick.
@Herbie,
whatever you’re on about, it doesn’t explain Mark claiming to have been in a British Army camp in Donegal. Donegal is not part of Northern Ireland as in ‘British territory’. It’s in the Republic. And if Mark spent any time at all in that part of the country, he’d surely know whether he was in Co. Derry or Co. Donegal? (Especially if he was part of “Int & Squint”?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14_Intelligence_Company
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Donegal
Especially if he was part of “Int & Squint”?
Maybe, and it might explain his virulent Anti-Americanism and unequivocal support for those who share his viewpoint, but he does also have a certain tendency to name dropping and fantasy.
I thought that this essay by the Hitch has a certain relevance to much of the reaction here to the Charlie Hebdo massacres
http://www.thenation.com/article/sin-left-islamic-fascism#
Je suis Charlie