There is no question to which the answer is to wander round killing people. It takes a few words or keystrokes for any right thinking person to condemn the killings in Paris today. But that really doesn’t take us very far.
It is impossible to stop evil from happening. Simple low tech attacks by individuals, a kind of DIY terrorism, cannot always be pre-empted. If you try to do so universally, you will end up even further down the line we have gone down in the UK, where people are continually arrested and harassed who have no connection to terrorism at all, often for bragging on websites. These non-existent foiled terrorist plots are a risible feature of British politics nowadays. Every now and then one hits the headlines, like the arrests just before Remembrance Day. Their defining characteristic is that none of those arrested have any means of terrorism – 99% of those arrested for terrorism in the UK in the last decade – possessed no weapon and no viable explosive device.
In fact the only terrorist in the last year convicted in the UK, who possessed an actual bomb – a very viable explosive device indeed, was not charged with terrorism. He was a fascist named Ryan McGee who had a swastika on his wall and hated Muslims. Hundreds of Muslims with no weapons are locked up for terrorism. A fanatical anti-Muslim with a bomb is by definition not a terrorist.
I am assuming that the narrative that Charlie Hebdo was attacked by Islamists is correct, though that remains to be proved. For argument, let us assume the official narrative is true and the killings were by Muslims outraged at the magazine’s depictions of the Prophet Mohammed.
It is essential to free speech that it includes the freedom to offend. That must include the freedom to offend religious belief. Without such freedoms, the values of societies would freeze. Much social progress has caused real anguish and offence to some people. To have stopped Charlie Hebdo by law would have been wrong. To stop them by bullets is beyond any mitigation.
But that doesn’t make the unfortunate deceased heroes, and President Hollande was wrong to characterise them as such. Being murdered does not make you a hero. And being offensive is not necessarily noble. People who are persistently and vociferously offensive are often neither noble nor well-motivated. Much of Charlie Hebdo‘s taunting of Muslims was really unpleasant. That they also had Christian and other targets did not make this any better. It is not Private Eye – it is a magazine with a much nastier edge. I defend the right of Charlie Hebdo to publish whatever it wants. But once the shock dies off, I do hope a more realistic assessment of whether Charlie Hebdo was entirely admirable or not may be possible. This in no way excuses the dreadful murders.
The ability to say things that offend is an important attribute of a free society. Richard Dawkins may offend believers. Peter Tatchell may offend homophobes. Pussy Riot offended Putin and the Orthodox Church. This must not be stopped.
But that must cut both ways. Abu Qatada broke no British laws in his lengthy stay in the UK, but was demonised for things he said (or even things newspapers invented he had said). Most of the French who are today in solidarity for freedom of expression, are against people being able to express themselves freely in what they wear. The security industry who are all over TV today want to respond to this attack on freedom of expression by more controls on the internet!
I condemn, you condemn, we all condemn, and so we should. But the amount of nuanced thought in the mainstream media is almost non-existent. What will now happen is that conservative commentators will rip individual phrases from this article and tweet them to show I support terrorism. The lack of nuanced thought is a reflection of a general atmosphere of anti-intellectualism which has poisoned public life in modern western society.
Resident Dissident; “Many of the reposts were entirely unnecessary to the point you were making”
The only thing that was unnecessary were your blatantly false accusations which had to be proved as false, and as has been done.
Resident Dissident; “as for the original question on Medialens how low do you wish to go”
Why is that a low question ?! Seems like a reasonable & logical question.
Don’t the conspiracy theorists appreciate that the world is of such complexity that if you go around looking for any scraps of evidence that may support a theory and then just ignore/rubbish the rest it is pretty easy to support any theory whatsoever – and whatsmore this technique is pretty transparent for others to see on this blog. When anything in the world goes wrong it is usually only a matter of hours before the usual culprits are fingered and blamed – some individuals employ quite distinct techniques. Kim John Goss usually has the most comical e.g. blaming the US for Ebola or the plane crash in the Java Sea as it was in the vicinity of Diego Garcia (i.e. 4400 km away)but others are just plain nasty.
Macky
I’ll explain why it was a low question – once you have answered all my previous questions – until then you will just have to work it our for yourself.
Cheerio
Fredou suicide en français :
Killed himself before completing a report on the massacre at the headquarters of Charlie Hebdo
http://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/limousin/2015/01/08/limoges-suicide-d-un-commissaire-de-police-626916.html
Waaaagh! Look around, Waaaaaagh!!!!! no attention…..
Waaaaaaaagghhrr! Nobody’s listening.
CM’s toddler troll is a nearly beside himself with frenzy, firstly because of the deletion of an entire non-thread, and secondly because most sensible human beings now believe these incidents are false-flag.
Baa! Humbug: “Perhaps because the usual arses are upping their usual mischief?”
“You do that so often you should really get a job down the council.”
Stick to vitriol – humour doesn’t suit you. Translated that French article yet? Or too busy worshipping that portrait of Paul Craig Roberts?
Mr Golding
Thanks for demonstrating my general theory at 10:12pm with your selective translation.
“False flag tactics were also employed during the Algerian civil war, starting in the middle of 1994. Death squads composed of Département du Renseignement et de la Sécurité (DRS) security forces disguised themselves as Islamist terrorists and committed false flag terror attacks”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
Just remember that habby, kempe, res diss, anon, jemand etc would have been telling us it was da muzzies done it.
False flags are quite simply standard operating procedure. That’s largely what special forces are for.
And this incident has all the hallmarks of such an operation.
General Sir Frank Kitson’s book, “Low Intensity Operations” is pretty much the standard work, and reveals the tactics used by the British Army in their colonial operations and in NI.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0571271022?*Version*=1&*entries*=0
The British also developed in NI the torture techniques which are the subject of recent controversy.
Resident Dissident; “I’ll explain why it was a low question – once you have answered all my previous questions”
I think if you look carefully, you’ll find that I’ve addressed your “points”, but if I missed any then feel free to repose, but whilst you’re checking you may find some of mine addressed to you which are as yet unanswered, including of course the Medialens question.
facile
adjective
1. ignoring the true complexities of an issue; superficial.
Mary
I would have thought if one is to appreciate the true complexities of any issue it is necessary to engage with those of different views and perspectives rather than stand aloof?
@Guano
“secondly because most sensible human beings now believe these incidents are false-flag.”
Please define sensible.
” Its not up to the poster to provide evidence ”
Actually it is.
Orbiting teapots:-
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Russell's_Teapot
I’ve just had a message on my Ouija board from the 14th Century Franciscan friar, William of Ockham. He says, ‘For fuck’s sake I wish to fuck I had never mentioned that Goddam razor. I was talking about mathematical proofs, the idea that my principle of economy could apply to the smoke and mirrors world of 21st century spook tradecraft in which numerous false trails are deliberately laid is beyond me. Everybody in Heaven knows 9/11 was an inside job and the way those Alumni of the Captan Sensible Institute of Common Sense, the Res Disses of this world, keep banging on about my razor makes things really tough for me up here. Enough already.’
KOWN
Sorry but I don’t believe in all this cloud fairy stuff – at least until I see some pretty solid evidence to the contrary. I’d save your creativity for your books – did I ever tell you I read one of them once.
I’ve been doing a spot of “false-flagging” myself in an attempt to understand the mindset of the various blog luminaries who are doubting the “official version” of events. Naturally, Aangirfan is the place to start and it was comforting to find CanSpeccy there to remind me of home.
The major theory gaining ground at the moment seems to be that Mossad-controlled “Jewish terrorists” were responsible, with the hapless Muslim “patsies” having been either duped or “mind-controlled” using CIA techniques into carrying out the attacks. Others hold that the terrorists never existed and the whole event was an elaborate hoax using “crisis actors”. A few have been claiming that there was sophisticated use of CGI in play, meaning that the whole event itself never actually happened, but the more “mainstream” theorists have accused these fringe elements of being “Zionist” agents attempting to sow “disinformation” in order to discredit those seeking the truth.
That’s all for now but I’ll try to keep you all updated as the theories develop.
Res Diss can come down from his high horse.
~~
Whilst all this was happening in La Belle France, P Andrew found time to buy a Swiss chalet in spite of his current legal difficulties. His co purchaser was Fergie. I thought she was always skint and having to borrow money from unsavoury types.
Prince Andrew buys £13million ski lodge: Never mind the sex slave scandal – Prince and Fergie snap up snow palace
Bought seven-bedroom property in Verbier shortly before Christmas
The deeds listing them simply as Andrew York and Sarah Ferguson
It’s the same property they were staying in last week when claims that the prince had sex with an under-age girl were made
Sources say the chalet is worth between £10million and £13million
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2904085/Andrew-buys-13m-ski-lodge-Never-mind-sex-slave-scandal-Prince-Fergie-snap-snow-palace.html
Even the BiBiCee have reported it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30759303
How lovely to be a royal layabout propped up by the taxpayers.
For those who are interested I have just found the source of Macky’s doctored cartoon (Using Google Image search – I never realised you could cut and past the images into the search box) – it was the barenakedislam site for the 12 September 2012 – I won’t reproduce the link because I don’t want to endorse that site in any way whatsoever, and I doubt Craig/mods would either, though fans of Stormfront and similar may have different views.
Anon
Are you sure Prince Andrew wasn’t involved – buying a ski lodge in Verbier was just an alibi.
KoWN
You will find few greater admirers of your wit and charm than myself, and I enjoyed Ockham’s psychic rant. But I think his razor is applicable to 9/11; all the evidence advanced by all sides is debatable -or simply not available for testing – and none is conclusive except that, simultaneously, four aircraft were hijacked by people from the Middle East and three of them wound up embedded in buildings of major importance and relevance to US economic and military policy. Three of the buildings were destroyed, and cause-and-effect accounts reasonably for this apparent coincidence. Which may have been aided by poor adherence to construction regulations, true. Multiplying hypotheses unnecessarily – as the inside job faction does almost infinitely – would seem to be as bad idea as it was in Ockham’s day.
But I look forward to seeing a comprehensive, agreed and detailed H(1) to test against the official H(0), in the best spirit of Ockham (and Karl Popper). Neither option is yet available .
It’s time that Andrew’s finances were scrutinised, I think. He doesn’t get anything approaching what he spends, from the Civil List, and his sinecure Envoy to Drum Up Business job is over. My impression is that he’s doing a Blair; being paid for appearances and accepting backhanders from business deals. He’s equally fascinated by Central Asia and American oligarchs. Wouldn’t be surprised to find, on that happy day when beneficial interests are finally disclosed by all (lol), that he has a network of a dozen companies playing pass-the-parcel with the takings, en route to the Turks and Caicos. I’d be less than amazed to discover that he was hand in glove with something like Leslie Wexner, too.
Tweet of the day:
“#Hebdo killings indefensible. Can’t help thinking #JSIL Mossad false flag though.”
— Mary Hughes-Thompson, co-founder of the Free Gaza Movement (FGM).
Of course you can’t help it, dear…
Ba’al Zevul
Thank you for those kind words. With reference to the sort of hard evidence which you cite, I wouldn’t disagree. But I thought RD mentioned the famous razor in respect of David Icke and more general conspiracy narratives. As such, since the perps (or putative perps) deliberately create multiple conflicting narratives, the principle of parsimony presumably isn’t much use?
Selective does of course mean judicious and scrupulous. Not to dwell on dumbness it is imposed confusion that obstructs intention, esp the intent of US barbaric tenets impacting on the Middle East, now France, next Britain.
As a clear example we can turn back the pages to disgraced, ‘dripping dick’ General Petraeus creating a holy war between Shia and Sunni in Iraq with his strategic Vietnam inspired ‘Hamlet evaluation’ of insurgency, trainings, secret police, and whatever. Observe the result; chaos in Iraq, today and tomorrow.
Chaos and confusion is the intended outcome and that which beget Islamic State.
This cache of professional murderers whatever have been trained by US Special Forces in Georgia. They (including IRA hardened British SAS) recruited Chechens as soldiers, they trained them in secret NATO bases inside Turkey and Jordan. For the last year and a half, they have been developing what we now call ISIS (IS, ISIL or DASH)[just a MSM logo]. It’s all made in Langley, Virginia (the CIA’s seat) and [by] the affiliates of Langley inside the Pentagon.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/10/us-syria-crisis-rebels-usa-idUSBRE9290FI20130310
Advertised publicly as training of ‘non-extremist’ Muslim jihadists to wage war against the Syrian Bashar Assad regime, the secret US training camps in Jordan and elsewhere have trained perhaps several thousand Muslim fighters in techniques of irregular warfare, sabotage and general terror. The claims by Washington that they took special care not to train ‘Salafist’ or jihadist extremists, is a joke. How do you test if a recruit is not a jihadist? Is there a special jihad DNA that the CIA doctors have discovered?
Britain is intricately involved in this ‘obomination’ – that does not start with a kiss – it starts with a kill list:
Der Spiegel documents an attempted attack on a Taliban member named Mullah Niaz Mohammed — nicknamed “Doody” in reports — in 2011 that instead resulted in the death of a nearby child, while critically injuring the child’s father.
“Doody,” who was number 3,673 on the kill list, had been designated as a priority level three on a scale of one to four by NATO, meaning he wasn’t particularly important within the Taliban leadership structure. Spotted on the ground by the crew of a British Apache combat helicopter, the pilot and gunner were given the go-ahead to kill him, however poor visibility resulted in a launched Hellfire missile striking the child and his father instead.
THIS IS THE OUTCOME (discretion advised)
http://www.4thmedia.org/2015/01/leaked-kill-list-shows-us-military-knew-it-was-killing-children/
Resident Dissident
‘I’d save your creativity for your books – did I ever tell you I read one of them once.’
I think you may have mentioned the fact and observed that it wasn’t any good. So I decided to punish you by writing more.
Anyway, I have to go to bed now, it is an hour later for me since–unlike you slaves to convention–I did not turn my clock back at the end of October. It means I get an extra hour of daylight each evening, and Tescos is open till midnight.
Good night.
Res Diss
Well, one theory is that the Charlie Hebdo killings were meant to knock the Prince Andrew scandal off the headlines, so not a smart move by the Prince there.
Resident Dissident; “For those who are interested I have just found the source of Macky’s doctored cartoon”
Still digging I see ! “doctored” = exactly the same image that was originally published by Charlie Hebdo, only that the caption was accurately translated in English, what a misleading & despicable “forgery” !! LOL !
My source was Medialens, as you well know.
I thought you were digging around for such alledgedly unanswered questions for me ?
KOWN
And I’ll shall punish you by not buying them and listening to my signed Max Boyce MP at full blast, I may if feeling especially childish relocate them on the shelves at Waterstones – somewhere in the mind, body and soul sections seems appropriate.
Fair point, KoWN. A preselection procedure might then be applied based on a subset of criteria. Hypothesis triage, indeed. And it’s predominantly the case that Icke types are long on assertion and short on data. Ignore the assertion and demand the data; if it’s not forthcoming you have done all that is required already.
Molten and resolidified granite?
http://picpaste.com/molten1-whjKVk3S.png
http://picpaste.com/molten2-DkhnWLo6.png
http://picpaste.com/molten3-XdPhaUKz.png
Somethings far below the buildings, deep in the earth, about 80 meters below, of around 150 Kilotons yield.