There is no question to which the answer is to wander round killing people. It takes a few words or keystrokes for any right thinking person to condemn the killings in Paris today. But that really doesn’t take us very far.
It is impossible to stop evil from happening. Simple low tech attacks by individuals, a kind of DIY terrorism, cannot always be pre-empted. If you try to do so universally, you will end up even further down the line we have gone down in the UK, where people are continually arrested and harassed who have no connection to terrorism at all, often for bragging on websites. These non-existent foiled terrorist plots are a risible feature of British politics nowadays. Every now and then one hits the headlines, like the arrests just before Remembrance Day. Their defining characteristic is that none of those arrested have any means of terrorism – 99% of those arrested for terrorism in the UK in the last decade – possessed no weapon and no viable explosive device.
In fact the only terrorist in the last year convicted in the UK, who possessed an actual bomb – a very viable explosive device indeed, was not charged with terrorism. He was a fascist named Ryan McGee who had a swastika on his wall and hated Muslims. Hundreds of Muslims with no weapons are locked up for terrorism. A fanatical anti-Muslim with a bomb is by definition not a terrorist.
I am assuming that the narrative that Charlie Hebdo was attacked by Islamists is correct, though that remains to be proved. For argument, let us assume the official narrative is true and the killings were by Muslims outraged at the magazine’s depictions of the Prophet Mohammed.
It is essential to free speech that it includes the freedom to offend. That must include the freedom to offend religious belief. Without such freedoms, the values of societies would freeze. Much social progress has caused real anguish and offence to some people. To have stopped Charlie Hebdo by law would have been wrong. To stop them by bullets is beyond any mitigation.
But that doesn’t make the unfortunate deceased heroes, and President Hollande was wrong to characterise them as such. Being murdered does not make you a hero. And being offensive is not necessarily noble. People who are persistently and vociferously offensive are often neither noble nor well-motivated. Much of Charlie Hebdo‘s taunting of Muslims was really unpleasant. That they also had Christian and other targets did not make this any better. It is not Private Eye – it is a magazine with a much nastier edge. I defend the right of Charlie Hebdo to publish whatever it wants. But once the shock dies off, I do hope a more realistic assessment of whether Charlie Hebdo was entirely admirable or not may be possible. This in no way excuses the dreadful murders.
The ability to say things that offend is an important attribute of a free society. Richard Dawkins may offend believers. Peter Tatchell may offend homophobes. Pussy Riot offended Putin and the Orthodox Church. This must not be stopped.
But that must cut both ways. Abu Qatada broke no British laws in his lengthy stay in the UK, but was demonised for things he said (or even things newspapers invented he had said). Most of the French who are today in solidarity for freedom of expression, are against people being able to express themselves freely in what they wear. The security industry who are all over TV today want to respond to this attack on freedom of expression by more controls on the internet!
I condemn, you condemn, we all condemn, and so we should. But the amount of nuanced thought in the mainstream media is almost non-existent. What will now happen is that conservative commentators will rip individual phrases from this article and tweet them to show I support terrorism. The lack of nuanced thought is a reflection of a general atmosphere of anti-intellectualism which has poisoned public life in modern western society.
Mary I’m pleased to see 3 RAF (US bases) are to close. Unfortunately the oe that matters is the one at Menwith Hill, which is part of the five eyes global spy programme. Communication between the five eyes takes place not through airwaves but through the earth’s core with antennae buried very deep. They are each driectly opposite, from what I understand, for maximum strength. If anyone can find the article/video from which I got this information I would appreciate a link. Thanks.
Moral relativism !?? Ye gods, don’t you start sticking up for the moral relativism of cats using the earth in my garden for a public loo.
They can do it and will do it, like Erdogan stuffing US dollars in his top pocket from delivering US arms and vehicles to ISIS. But don’t think if you get caught crouching in the very act nothing’s ever going to happen to you.
The US State Department says Palestine is not a sovereign state and therefore does not qualify to join the International Criminal Court (ICC).
“It doesn’t qualify to join the ICC,” State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters on Wednesday in Washington.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/01/08/392114/US-Palestine-not-qualified-to-join-ICC
…………………………..
Is this a sign of USA flexing its muscles, in order to thwart Palestine from joining the (ICC).
I do hope the EU countries can find a backbone to push it through, but I won’t hold my breath in anticipation, just yet.
Mods (meouiw} please note threatening language. Please delete as necessary.
If you took out all the good earth of the strong comments on this thread, where would Habn’t a clue his cotrolls find left to poo?
Craig, I have placed an offer on your previous thread.
Toxic environments.
The United States are not qualified to comment on the ICC or its members or who aspires to be a member as they refused to take part in the ICC. So fuck the USA and that tart Psaki
Mohammad Sidique Khan.
Contrived to blow himself up on the morning of 7/7 AND leave his ID in four different places: the carriage at Edgware Road, the carriage at Aldgate, in Tavistock Square, and in the tunnel between Kings Cross and Russell Square.
Satam Al Suqami
Passport managed somehow to survive the crash and explosion of American Airlines flight A11 after it hit the tower, then hung around in the air for 50 minutes, so that it could land on the rubble after the collapse. Then it was handed in to a cop by a mystery man who ran away and whom the US authorities made no attempt to trace even though he must have planted the passport and would therefore have been in possession of it before 9/11 and thus had foreknowledge not only of the time, date, location and method but even the name of one of the hijackers.
I’m tired of this script, I wish they would write a new one.
Homeneara*
““That is the logic of what you write: any border checks are a restriction of freedom”
Yes, and it seems an obvious fact. That I simply explained further.”
________________
Well, actually you explained nothing.
But do please explain why you are against border checks (which every country has) and, presumably, the control of who enters a country.
Or are you in favour of them whilst claiming at the same time that they are a restriction of freedom?
Palestine not qualifying for the ICC? says who? a country that refuses to allow its soldiers and officers accused of war crimes to be tried by the ICC?
and who itself has rejected to be partial and equal to a more straightforward judiciary, one with a historic European root of some hundreds of years, derived at by the input of more than one country, should really shut the fuck up, just to balance it out.
So what would happen if we don’t sign the TTIP and is we do accept Palestine accession to the ICC? It about time that we realise that we are part and parcel of Europe’s rich history, that we have left our imprints on other countries and visa versa, that we all have had questionable experiences with colonies and slavery.
LETS GROW SOME BALLS IN EUROPE!
Keep your genetically modified TTIP, rub your next door neighbour’s Canadian hairy back with it if you don’t mind, but keep your aberrations to yourself, we do not want genetic foods or hormonally challenged cows/pigs, we’re perfectly fine to breed hwat we want, even blight resistant potatoes, by conventional means, hey ho.
and to the tune of here we go here we go here we go
Bds bds bdssssss, bds bds biidiissss s, bds bds bds, oh bidiss ss bidissss.
und so weiter und so weiter.
BTW why was a cartoonist fired for apparent anti semitic comments and was CH a thorn in the eye of the establishment/Government/police? lest cast a wide net in our considerations fro motives, I don’t by the rapper boy scenario, he’s not cool calm or collected, but I shall join others and wait what will emerge.
There should be nothing secret about any of the autopsies or pathological records, it should be seen how much blood was spilled and in context to the actions. These characters should be kept alive, but, boef, hthey killed policemen, fat chance that they survive capture.
So the result, should these shooters not be arrested alive, would be that people create their own versions, again. If there is no information coming out, or main records are denied, then some will question the official narrative including myself. There is no need for secrecy in this case whatsoever, show us all.
“As for Pussy Riot I find them extremely decorative and think there should be more of them everywhere.”
_______________
Cannot do other than to agree with you there!
I would certainly volonteer to give any one – or all – of them one- on- one tutorials on any subject they would choose.
++++++++++++++
TESCO shares up!
Clark diminishes freedom of speech with – “And printing offensive cartoons to make profit is a very minor and unimportant aspect of freedom, …”
You, sir, are a fucking disgrace. Twelve dead people and you waste their memory with that arrogant appeasement of Islamists?
@Habby
I would certainly volonteer to give any one – or all – of them one- on- one tutorials on any subject they would choose.
Into anal intercourse in a public place, are you?
Yuck.
From the AK expertise (that bullet hole pattern on the windscreen is not made by an amateur) it might have been the same sharpshooter in the motorcycle helmet who “stood in” for Mohamed Merah. The civic responsibility of retrieving DNA evidence filled shoe on the road was the hallmark of a well aware experienced pro. But more tellingly, not someone in any kind of hurry, preplanned all the way?
Jemand, 8:22 pm, I’m merely pointing out that three (identical!) newspaper headlines are sensationalised out of all proportion, vis:
WORLD WAR II – TWELVE WHOLE PEOPLE KILLED – OFFENSIVE CARTOONS IN DANGER
OK?
Jemand, you seem less concerned that twelve people have been killed than that it was done by people you think are Muslim.
@Clark, bingo ! The muzzies in KSA would chop gayboy jemands willy,and neck even !
Ex-muslim explains why muslims must hate Jews.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/08/why_muslims_must_hate_jews.html
Unfortunately, it doesn’t explain why libturds love Islam.
Clark, if I was solely concerned with the calculus of death, I’d be more worried about traffic fatalities. Seeing that you aren’t concerned about either, I suggest you shut the fuck up before you emabarrrass yourself with more libturded Islam apologia.
“@Clark, bingo ! The muzzies in KSA would chop gayboy jemands willy,and neck even !”
A friend of yours, Clark?
Clark, this is for you, if you can stomach it.
Tony Robinson at Oxford Union.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyzGayfI400
Is it really freedom of speech and expression that the mass-media are supporting here? Or just the freedom of mass-media?
These people weren’t making jokes and cartoons for their friends and family, nor making a quip about religion in the course of their general conversation. They were doing it so a publishing company could make money and pay them. They did the same thing, day after day on the same subjects.
That does NOT make these people legitimate targets for murder. But it maybe does explain why other mass-media organisations have conspired to call this a “War on Freedom”.
Jemand, is there something personal about this matter for you? Have you had some personally damaging experience with Muslims, or been directly affected by Islam in some way? You’re sounding like those anti-Semites that keep going on about ancient, immoral sections of the Talmud.
Sorry for the flurry of posts. This is my last one for today (my time) – promise.
Another incident by the cult that Clark, Technicolour and Jihad Mary enthusiastically defend (as volunteer propagandists) against any kind of criticism.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/boko-haram-burns-down-at-least-16-nigerian-towns-20150108-12kmsn.html
Remember kids – smite them at their NECKS!
Take your pick. Dissident Voice
Amidst a Religious War in Europe?
Or Is It Just another False Flag Operation?
January 8th, 2015 by Gilad Atzmon
Attack in Paris a Direct Result of Western Imperialism
January 8th, 2015 by T.J. Petrowski
Charlie Hebdo and Tsarnaev’s Trial: Cui bono?
January 8th, 2015 by Paul Craig Roberts
http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/01/
Cut and run, eh, Jemand? How about answering Clark’s question? All you’re doing is shouting slogans. You’d do a lot better for your cause (and I think it must be an organised, intentionally scaremongering cause) if you told us why.
Here’s Douglas Murray, Jim Murphy’s mate from the neocon Henry Jackson Society, whining about free speech whilst trying to have another guest shut up.
What a fraud!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27FBUpokmIo
For all the slobber coming from these pricks you wouldn’t know there’s a specific offence against offending people in the UK.
Fuckin hypocrites all of them, apart from the muslim bloke. Amusingly he’s the only one who makes any holistic sense.
No wonder Douglas Murray loses it.
This is what happens when you invent these very frayed arguments to completely other purposes. They just fall apart at the slightest prodding.
Sorry folks, I’ll try not to start any more avalanches.
A very similar view to Jemand’s: Alan Dershowitz*. Oh, yes.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/paris-attack-charlie-hebdo-muslims/2015/01/07/id/617102/
And enough about Jemand.
*Who is absolutely nothing to do with teenage prostiution or Prince Andrew. Allegedly.
I see now why Chomsky described Dershowitz as “a remarkable liar and slanderer”.
He just makes it up as he goes along.
I mean, look at this:
He described the Palestinian state as “born in terrorism,”.
1. Palestine isn’t yet a state.
2. Israel is a state that was born in terrorism.
The fucker has completely reversed the reality.
And anyway, who’s the biggest terrorist in the world today. It certainly ain’t the Palestinians.
Lying shit.