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3,629 thoughts on “Amnesty International Conference on Torture”

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  • Macky

    @Mods, as you have removed my reply to the Post at 2.59, can you reassure the paranoid Poster as to if there has ever been any indication to suggest that Tony M & myself are the same person.

    You may also consider removing it for it’s offensive & vulgar language, at least for the sake of others readers here.

  • www.cluesforum.info

    http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=838&start=1770

    Welcome! Welcome! Real seekers of truth unite!

    Thank you for bravely coming to our forum and making your stance known.

    I don’t think you are crazy for believing explosive pods were used to fly into the WTC, nor Simon for believing nothing was used to fly into the WTC. The crazy person is one who claims — despite all the evidence that there was a very thorough cover up of true events — that they know.

    Hopefully, despite differences in speculation, we can all agree on a simple story to explain why we don’t know.

    The outmoded buildings were like a symbol and playground for a stage. The military was like a sniper, taking out its target in an entirely boring and conventional but extremely reliable way. The media was like their camouflage jacket as they sneaked key people, information and instructions “in” and “out” of the urban jungle. The police and firefighters were like the loud obnoxious decoy, making it seem as they (only they) knew what was really going on, and only their adoption and endorsement of a more aggressive military-level security apparatus is what “saved lives” amongst a number of sims, crisis actors and plain old liars, scammers and war profiteers. The people behind it all were like stage magicians remaining hidden and simply lying about just who was putting on the show. And the citizens of New York, and the world, watched what they were supposed to watch — the decoy story of emergency personnel versus an international James Bond-styled group of super villains with unexplainable powers that defy all reason and break the laws of physics.

    We will probably never know what really happened, but as long as we come to recognize the moving camouflage fatigues, we might be better prepared for another media strike by corporate agendas against laws favoring the public.

    Our “alliance” would symbolize, truly, the two largest communities interested in real truth coming together to number greater than ever before — giving truth the chance to have a public dialogue.

    Sorry for grandiose language, but this is truly what we should hope for. More and more networks of people building up to a critical mass of those aware of government- or military- or corporate-staged “non-events” that are used to target and deceptively manipulate the law.

  • Resident Dissident

    Oh dear, oh dear poor old Macky and Goss just do not get it.

    The Interpreter article is a translation of what appeared in Novaya Gazeta – and from what I can see it is a pretty honest translation. Of course the Interpreter does not share your view of the World – and it even (quite openly) receives funding from Khodorovsky – but a lot of what it does is translate sources from Russia which do not agree with the governing Party (of crooks and thieves) line – you know the sort of thing that we have all the time in the Western demnocracies that you so revile. I have already explained why

    Also unlike Macky I have read the whole article in some – yes of course it parrots the standard line about Western interference in Ukraine – despite what Macky thinks this is really nothing new whatsoever – but it is quite touching how our double act both showed a touching faith in the accuracy of “intelligence” provided that it is provided by your boys. What of course they missed, or more likely could not comprehend, is that the document provided firm evidence of the pre-meditated line that Putin has actually taken towards their Ukraine and the long term meddling in Ukrainian affairs by the Putin regime. Of course this does create a certain amount of cognitive dissonance which they reflect in their typical manner – including some inexcusable bullying of Clark by Vishynsky. Clark hold a perfectly valid position that both the West and Russia have interfered in Ukrainian affairs to the detriment of ordinary Ukrainians – which in broad terms I would agree with and not seek to deny – although I do assign different degrees of malevolence/benevolence and the extent of involvement to the interference by both sides, I am not going to fly in the face of facts and say that interference has not happened, or the absence of any substantial changes in evidence change my view as to the balance of responsibilities.

    If Mr Goss bothers to look he will find that I hold plenty of anti-establishment views ( I am a republican and against austerity as a means of reducing public deficits and I give give more if people bother to ask politely – and actually bothered to talk about such issues here rather than the usual obsessions) – and certainly considerably more than I have ever heard Mr Goss express in condemnation of Putin (namely a big fat zero)

  • mike

    UK to send military advisers to Ukraine. Poland to do the same. Russian journalists arrested in Kiev. American armour on the Estonian border with Russia.

    There wouldn’t be a lull in the fighting in Donbass by any chance, would there?

  • Jon (yes, that one)

    Hello all, hope you’re doing well… popping in for bi-annual salutations. Good to see lots of familiar names here.

    Clark, best wishes to you. Like one of the posters above, I recommend taking a break from here if you’re finding it frustrating. For what it’s worth, I think you’re quite right about being suspicious of propaganda from all sides, and yes, it is hardly right-wing to point out RT’s source of biases. Probably roughly aligned with where they get their funding…

    As long-standing readers will know, I stopped coming here, since moderating – and participating in reasoned political discourse – become too difficult: both would often turn into cat-herding exercises! Nevertheless, I’ll never write this place off – it has had its ups as well as its downs, and sometimes when the moon is in the right phase, an extended discussion can be had for a whole thread without an unpleasantness grenade being lobbed. May that day come again 🙂

    Bravo by the way to the tech team, whoever they are now – all seems to be ticking along nicely, and with a secure certificate too. Nice work.

    I’m in danger of being regarded as right wing again by endorsing the recent Telegraph/Dispatches investigation into two ex-foreign secretaries, caught offering their contact books for hire. Poor old Rifkind, can’t live on £67K a year! Times are hard for these shameless, morally bankrupt swindlers. I was rather hoping for a post on it from Craig – between that and the Barclays taxation scandal, I wonder if neoliberalism’s rachet is going to have to ease up for a while, lest people start losing faith in capitalism entirely. Especially since an election is due – they may have to avoid selling off parkland and privatising another hospital for a few months – poor things!

    Should anyone want something to do, there are some good campaigns coming from Avaaz and 38 Degrees at the moment – both have campaigns on the Barclays story I think. I’m minded to extract a promise from my MP to do something meaningful about tax havens/avoidance, but they’re Labour, so it’ll probably be a waste of ink. Still, maybe for a giggle?

  • Resident Dissident

    Could Mr Goss please direct me to “no weapons to Ukraine” petition addressed to Mr Putin – perhaps some of us would like to sign both, or perhaps we should sign the current petition with the rider that it should also be addressed to Mr Putin as well?

  • Resident Dissident

    Jon

    Just a guess but Craig will not be able to resist posting on the two ex foreign secretaries – and that he will say rather more about the one you don’t name.

  • Resident Dissident

    “The Emperor Poroshenko.” I suppose Mr Goss prefers picture of the KGB operative posing topless? I wonder what he thinks of the current theme within Russia to mock Obama using racist imagery? I could give evidence – but I don’t give oxygen to such racism whatever my blood alcohol level.

  • Clark

    Jon, excellent to see you, and thanks for the friendly words.

    Resident Dissident, 10:13 pm

    “…perhaps we should sign the current petition with the rider that it should also be addressed to Mr Putin as well?”

    That’s an excellent suggestion. I’ll e-mail the petition site and suggest it.

    Likewise it would be a fine thing for any demonstrations organised to be at least two-pronged, with one destination being the Russian embassy. This would make clear the social rather than political objectives of the protest, and pre-empt any claims of bias from political figures.

  • Clark

    From Mark Golding’s link:

    Chris Huhne […] warns that if we don’t allow MPs to have second jobs or raise their salary, people form highly paid jobs won’t enter Parliament.

    What? A parliament of ordinary people, A “House of Common[er]s? That would never do!

    RT Propaganda Warning:

    Craig Murray […] describes the idea of Putin attacking as ‘obvious nonsense.’ Indented/quoted

    What? Craig saying Russia won’t attack Ukraine? I doubt it; I haven’t watched the video yet but I’ll wager that Craig is referring to the unlikelihood of a Russian attack upon Europe. RT won’t be making that clear in their intro.

  • Herbie

    Tintin aka Cameron is sending military “advisers” to Ukraine. Remember Vietnam.

    Anyway, what else is new.

    What’s interesting in this report from The Kiev Post is Cameron’s response to this question:

    “When asked how the UK’s position related to that of other EU member states, Cameron said:

    “Britain’s role is to be at the tougher end of the spectrum, to try to keep the European Union and the United States together”

    Remember DeGaulle.

    This is all it’s about. Keep Europe with the US in unending war, and apart from its natural allies in Russia.

    It’ll be interesting to see how this pans out, what with France, Germany and others looking askance at this false unnecessary war with Russia, created in the US and UK, and fundamentally at odds with European interests.

    We’ve been here before, and it wasn’t good.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/uk-stuns-europe-by-sending-troops-to-ukraine-381775.html

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Am I Still Banned??

    if you think you have got everything, you’ve got nothing. If you think you have got nothing and you take a massive loan …the most you can get…and you give that away too..you give everything away…except your girl and your home in the hope of saving many thousands of lives..then you finally got there..

    I gave Everything Away in 1985 to Live Aid

    I just kept My Girl and My Home

    I don’t understand how I got away with it…

    But I did it..and at the end of the night I crawled into bed with my girl..the love of my life…We were right at the bottom..so she pulled me out of the pit…I went back to work…got my head back together by completely giving up all drugs..started back almost at the level of cleaning the toilets..gradually crawled my way back up and it only took about 12 months..I knew that she loved me so,,and I loved and love her too so much..she is a complete angel…I just said..

    Hey how about we Get married..and You Stop Taking The Pill…

    Lets Make Babies Together Baby…she said ok

    I can’t do better than that

    My Wife is an Angel

    And Our Kids…well you know…they are doing O.K.

    Tony & Wife

  • Daniel

    @ Clark

    Indeed, 67 grand a year for an essentially part-time vocation that allows one time to take long walks a read books is insufficient, despite the fact that it’s well in excess of double the national average wage.

  • Herbie

    What Craig seems to be saying is that it’s a nonsense that Russia will attack Poland, the Baltic states or Cornwall, and that British forces have no part to play in the Ukraine other than perhaps as UN peacekeepers down the line.

    That’s clear enough. He also says that so far as media and politicians highlight such fears that may be down to an hysterical press and unscrupulous politicians.

    He doesn’t say anything about the very obvious geopolitical game now in play.

    Important to remember that the British military advisers now off to Ukraine are operating under British command and not as NATO.

    Perhaps that’s a win for Putin. He has said that there’ll be big trouble should NATO officially involve itself in Ukraine.

    So Cameron’s sending a kind of NATO lite outfit, whilst bigging it up as some sort of standing up to Putin.

    It ain’t. Not yet, anyway.

  • Peacewisher

    @Clark: you are wrong. Craig said it as it is. He was magnificent. Even Tony Brenton (ex UK ambassador to Russia, I think) was on RT showing some sympathy for Putin. Cameron and cronies seem to have shaken things up a bit with their latest rhetoric.

  • Herbie

    Now the Poles are talking about sending in military “advisers” to Ukraine.

    You’d have thought that Ukraine had enough problems at the moment, and that more military nonsense is the last thing it needs.

    Perhaps it’s all a cunning ruse to get NATO into Ukraine, one country at a time, and maybe Vlad won’t notice.

    Two things.

    They can’t put NATO in directly because Putin would be very annoyed at that.

    But it’s very probable that given the divisions in Europe they just can’t get NATO agreement, and in order to avoid that problem the rather more gung-ho Russiaphobes, like Britain and Poland, are going it alone.

    For the moment it just looks like NATO weakness, which is probably good news.

    http://rt.com/news/235499-poland-military-advisers-ukraine/

  • Herbie

    It’s worth saying that Craig got a much better reception on RT than the aggressive brow-beating he normally gets in UK msm.

  • Macky

    Craig’s comment about the UK not having an independent foreign policy iro Russia, but having to follow the US policy, tells us once again all we need to know about all the war-mongering fighting talk out of No.10, and the sending of UK “trainers”; I guess the German & French attempt to seek an solution has really put the US nose out of joint, so maybe there’s hope for the EU yet; still need to get the UK trojan horse out before Europe really can begin to look after its own interests.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    You may think it Easy..but the concrete poles are 9 feet apart..and no one does that..but even so our hall is full of fencing wood 6 feet wide 4 feet tall….obviously I am going to have to buy more..but I am going to do it myself with hopefully a bit of help from my family and friends..and my intention is that no money changes hands except from me to buy the wood and well maybe a few quid to my lad….

    Tim, yes I like books. I do not like censorship, and I have no intention of either reading Marx or Hitler..but sure we can learn from history..I have bought about 6 books in the last 3 days…but how do I do it? I do know a bloke (I think He his Teresa May’s boss or something maybe writes her speechres and he has written his own book and to be honest it is not that good..if two thirds of it were deleted it would still be pretty crap..and I can hardly ask him how to publish it..but it surely can’t be that hard)

    Have you got any Tips Tim..Do I Have To Do Live TV Interviews and Get a Big Media Company Behind Me To Publish My Book?

    I have done The Presentation Courses and Know How To Smile and Get the Kick and Hook,,

    I could ask the Girl Next Door She Works For a Major Book Publishing Company…maybe I will get talking to her…whilst I am rebuilding the Fence Between Our Two Gardens..I don’t expect Our Kids To Do Much..big strong Boys on Both Sides living at home with their Mums and Dads. He works For The Treckies HMRC..so there are no secrets…maybe he will help. (I think the fence is Our Responsibility – but I have not checked the deeds..but I am up for it…already bought most of the wood)

    Tony

  • Clark

    UK and Poland. From the document published in Novaya Gazeta:

    http://www.interpretermag.com/it-is-seen-as-correct-to-initiate-the-annexation-of-the-eastern-regions-of-ukraine-to-russia/

    The non-system opposition on the other hand (the so-called Maidan) is not under control by the leaders of the system opposition, here the tone is set by the “field commanders” (in large part soccer fans and representatives of the criminal underworld), who do not enjoy electoral influence and from all appearances are controlled not so much by the oligarchic groups but to a significant extent by Polish and British intelligence services.

  • DavidH

    I can’t believe some here are still seeing Putin as an anti-western hero.

    Just because he stands against something you hate, doesn’t make him a saviour. In fact, and very clearly, he’s a gangster and cares not for anybody’s freedom but only for himself and his gang of oligarch thieves. If you think that our own leaders and banksters are a corrupt and morally vacant bunch then Putin’s gang is many times worse with brass knobs on and much more brutal. Makes Tony Blair look like a well-meaning pussycat.

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