Honoured to give the keynote speech at Amnesty’s conference on torture in London yesterday. Then dashed back to Edinburgh for a very romantic evening with Nadira – and Cameron!
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Clark; “you are standing up for murders and liars”
Projection again.
Who are doing the dying, and who are the doing the killing ?
Fact; of the estimated 6,00 people killed, the overwhelming majority are Eastern Ukrainians; Fact, the horrific Odessa mass murder by carried out by the junta’s supporters.
Duncan McFarlane on 26 Feb @ 2.04 pm – Good to have your suggestion that Straw’s career be put under the microscope. The same applies to Rifkind. I know that Craig is busy writing/editing, but he is in a better position than anyone else to remind us of key moments of corruption, self-promotion and anti-democratic deception in their careers, especially when each was Foreign Secretary. Both Labour and Conservative parties need to find how to vaccinate themselves against this virulent strain of necrotising fasciitis which leads them to give most influence to those who should least be trusted to serve the public interest as MPs. I’ve not been able to follow this blog closely for a few weeks: have I missed any considered postings by Craig about his two shameless former political bosses?
Further to my 11:04 comment, for the first time we are in danger of ourselves becoming “virtual troops” in a proxy battle. And indeed, we have been attacking each other with enthusiasm.
This has to stop or others here might go as mad as me. We can exchange facts, we can offer opinions – to facilitate safe handling these should be clearly labelled and their sources identified.
But abuse, insult, smearing, innuendo, sarcasm – these are the metaphorical equivalents of attack, of offence, and we should each voluntarily disdain the use of them.
Hi Clark, with great respect, I cannot see any thing wrong with the term Donbass, it is simply a geographical term.
Your statement makes me wonder whose propaganda network you are encouraging 😉
Phil; “You claimed that Tony M was censored for his political content. Now you are claiming you are proven correct by pointing out that he was deleted for a personal attack”
No, Clark was stating that he didn’t believe long post by Tony M had been pulled, he also explicitly stated that you didn’t believe that I had seen such a post.
As to why is was pulled, I have my own belief, but given that Tony M stated that it was more of a word-play on RD name, given that RD himself was surprised that an ad-hominen against himself was pulled, given that personal insults are frequently posted here with any sanction, given that Fred & Clark get away with calling posters “F***ing retard C**t & “F***ing Moron”, it does seem rather odd to me, not you ?
Typo correction;
“with any sanction” s/be “without any sanction”
Macky, 11:10 am:
This is a smear against me. You are not my therapist so you are in no position to make such an accusation.
You have again moved the goal posts. My accusation that you supported liars and murderers refers to your accusation that Novaya Gazeta has been lying, but in your comment of 11:10 you have reframed this into terms of overall casualty rates. Please recalibrate your targeting system to avoid “friendly fire” casualties.
Macky, what is your opinion of the murders of Novaya Gazeta journalists?
Calgacus, please investigate deeper into “Donbas”.
This is innuendo aimed at smearing me. If you wish to check me out, do so any way you wish. There is a spare room at my house at present; do come and stay. Discover if I am anyone’s else’s agent first-hand.
Macky, 11:07 am:
This is innuendo. Please be direct; are you accusing me of this?
“given that Fred & Clark get away with calling posters “F***ing retard C**t & “F***ing Moron”, it does seem rather odd to me, not you ?”
It’s quite simple. What I do is abuse on the internet, what you do is abuse of the internet.
I Think Habba has gone off to one of those corporate bonding courses (they do this every so often in Cheltenham), where they go up into the Welsh hills and wear silly black wigs and fire paintballs at each other
(just testing if I can still post, now using an ancient version of Linux on an equally ancient laptop)
Resident Dissident; “Lets try the rather the substantial body that large chunks of it were implemented. We should also mention that Saker made it all rather too clear that it is ok to lie about Russian involvement.
Err, a faked would obviously take into account events that had already taken place ! Are you also stating that we should believe that the document is genuine is because some independent Blogger, based in the US, with no known connection to the Kremlin, & no known connection to this document, once may have posted something ages ago on his own along the lines that it might be ok to be economical with the truth in order to counter anti-Russian propaganda !!
That as logical as Clark justification in believing that the document is genuine because some reporters of the paper have been killed in the past !
Sorry, this is not the sort of “logical” reasoning that would persuade anybody with an open mind !
James Arbuthnot MP takes a mini bung from Bechtel, namely tickets for himself and his wife to the Chelsea Flower Show – how nice!. Enormous price – £1.250. A nice hotel for the night included presumably.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10013/james_arbuthnot/north_east_hampshire#register
Bechtel in the UK – ‘Today, we are working with the Defence Equipment and Support team to assist the government in procuring military equipment efficiently and cost-effectively.’
http://www.bechtel.com/about-us/offices/united-kingdom/
Arbuthnot, chairman of Con Friends of Israel up to 2013 and
chairman of the Defence Select Committee 2005-2014, attended this bash along with Clegg, Cable, Beckett et al. See the list at the link below. Only £250 a head. Whilst many UK citizens are on the breadline and resorting to dependence on food banks.
Anne Marie O’Reilly
5 February 2015
I gatecrashed a banquet for arms dealers because death and misery should never be considered ‘business as usual’
They must know that ordinary people don’t accept their skewed priorities
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/i-gatecrashed-a-lavish-banquet-for-arms-dealers-because-death-and-misery-should-never-be-considered-business-as-usual-10026988.html
https://www.caat.org.uk/issues/influence/resources/2015-02-03.ads.dinner-parliamentarians.pdf MPs attending.
Fred; “what you do is abuse of the internet”
?? Please explain !
RobG, please refrain from ad-hominen, even against Habbabkuk. It is the principle that matters. Ends do not justify means.
Finally and before I escape from the continued wrangling, here is John Pilger.
The Reckless Lies of War Mongers
Why the Rise of Fascism is Again the Issue
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/02/27/why-the-rise-of-fascism-is-again-the-issue/
PS It’s a lovely sunny day and the crocuses have opened.
Macky, do you accept that Novaya Gazeta journalists have been murdered by the Russian establishment in order to silence criticism?
Do you retract your earlier claim that Novaya Gazeta can be dismissed?
@Clark, why are you censuring RobG for an ad-hominen, against Habbabkuk, but not Fred for his against me ?
Macky, 11:44 am:
This is ad-hominen smearing. Will you refrain from such underhand techniques?
@Clark, I have as little knowledge as you about the real facts surrounding those reporters killings, they may well have been killed by the Kremlin, or maybe not, but that is indulging in whataboutery, as the issue is the pro-war lies being employed iro the situation in Ukraine.
Hello all!
I’ve put a summary on Julian Assange’s Swedish Supreme Court appeal this week, and his complaint against the UK and Sweden to the UN (Working Group on Arbitrary Detention) on the Anna Ardin thread, if anyone’s interested:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/why-i-am-convinced-that-anna-ardin-is-a-liar/comment-page-10/#comment-511561
Macky, that was RobG’s first comment of the day. I thought I should act quickly. We are still waiting for Fred’s response to your question, and I am responding as quickly as I can.
Can we return to the matter at hand please? This is about a conflict in Ukraine. You previously dismissed Novaya Gazeta as unreliable. What’s your opinion about that now?
Macky, it won’t do any good. It has been going on for days. All I will say is that one person who comments here has really surprised me with his hatred of Russia and all things Russian. When a journalist gets killed, as with the case of Michael Hastings, you can almost bet that the security services are involved. If a similar thing happens in Russia the chances are the security services are involved. The secret services are the scourge of all governments. They are unaccountable. I do not blame Obama, or Putin for these murders (if murders they be). I blame Obama for waging war all over the world, and the UK for going along with it. It’s about time for an entrance from Ba’al in defence of the secret services.
We need to let it drop for a while Macky. We know we are right. They think they are right. Nothing is going to change these opinions so I am campaigning elsewhere. Casting your pearls before swine comes to mind. I’m out of here.
Macky, 11:59, do you accept that the Kremlin may also be projecting pro-war lies?
Gary Glitter just got sentenced to 16 years, and heres the bizaare bit: members of his fan club were sitting in the public gallery
John Goss, no one “knows they are right” as you put it. All we can do is to do our best.
Many, many Russian journalists have been killed to silence criticism of the Russian ruling establishment. You should not be an apologist for such atrocity.
Please, John, look into the popularisation of the term “Donbas”, and to whom that popularisation could confer propagandist advantage.
This is all getting a bit meta…comments about posters who make comments on posters who make comments on….
Maybe an alternative blog? MetaCraig Murray?
/Putin sucks.
Clark; “You previously dismissed Novaya Gazeta as unreliable. What’s your opinion about that now?”
This is still whataboutery; let’s focus on the document itself; I have given the reason why I think that it proves nothing, except that both you & RD illogically thought it was a stick to beat Russia with; and I even given reasons why I think it’s a forgery, to which you have not responded to, and I’m still waiting to hear what about it makes you think it’s real ?
” We are still waiting for Fred’s response to your question, and I am responding as quickly as I can.”
You’ll have a long wait, I don’t get drawn into Macky’s stupid games.
If someone gets personal I flame them, otherwise I’m happy posting about Banksy’s visit to Gaza and the history of IS, Sheriffs getting suspended and things like that.
I need to prepare food and eat. I am not “running away” from the argument.
Any neutral reader, or anyone who considers themselves neutral and open-minded; please investigate the term “Donbas”, and why it is a pro-Kremlin propaganda term.