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3,629 thoughts on “Amnesty International Conference on Torture”

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  • Clark

    Having prepared ingredients but before beginning to cook, I’ll just throw in a quick:

    Que bono? Who benefits? Out of the “Western” alliance and Russia, which could win territory, resources, educated workforce and geopolitical advantage from inducing a conflict in Ukraine? Which entity has gained so far? Hint, where is there ice-free access to the oceans? Who held it before and who holds it now? Which side can win, and which side can merely benefit?

    Could the Kremlin possibly have learnt from the “Western” strategy in the Middle east? ie., provocation leading to the existence of a (fairly minor) enemy, and then use the “necessity” of defeating that enemy as a pretext to destroy a country or take control; compare Libya/Benghazi, Iraq/ISIS.

    Read the document. Look out for the term “Donbas”:

    http://www.interpretermag.com/it-is-seen-as-correct-to-initiate-the-annexation-of-the-eastern-regions-of-ukraine-to-russia/

    This is the game of the elites, and they have no borders. Avoid being sucked in to any of the false “sides” they offer us.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Clark – there’s a strong energy market component to the Ukraine war on top of – or, better, underlying – everything else. See this 2010 article for the background:

    http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article18073.html

    With the collapse of the South Stream project, and the new TAP line proposal (Blair, who is as usual advising it, has just been back to Baku, I think), the scenery has shifted since this piece, but the objectives are broadly unchanged. BTW, it’s more friendly to Putin/Medvedev than the US. The Russian-backed rebels here shouldn’t have too much trouble with it. But it does illustrate the naked greed on both sides.

    PS

    http://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/cff46a0c-526e-4fc3-ba92-a4ccd79ba484

    The Palestinians have just declined to ratify a contract with Israel which was to supply them with natural gas. They are now intending to develop the Gaza gas field, which the Israelis had hoped to get their hooks into, themselves. Hooray.

  • Tony M

    Do stop arguing over the above, Macky, Clark particularly, it is MY argument with the mods, past and present and perhaps even future, in the unlikely event there is one, for anyone, and I’m not looking for handers or seconds to step in -for or against. Flawed humans make bad adjudications. The ‘offending’ comment though not all of ones that followed, basks in all its insignificant glory (now) on page 6, for anyone to judge if it was unduly harsh towards a cretain poster (damn that spellchecker).

    An intermediate post not shown (probably as it was accompanied by colourful language, but not directed towards RD) makes the point “At least then we might be able to test some of his [RD’s] most outlandish claims against reality. I made a number of observations I think are valid about social phenomena, notably about youths’ appropriation of the garb and symbolism of accumulated mass culture, their subverting and inverting it […]”

    I once seen John Cleese goose-stepping on a passing TV set, this confirms Britain is over-run with fascists (and it is).

    Having speed-read the ‘Kremlin’ doc days ago, its authenticity is patently doubtful, and its content over-egging more than a little, if an opinion can be dared. The translation to English may be good some say, but much helpful nuances innocent and not-so innocent nevertheless could be lost. More informed analysis (not to be found here) needed.
    The suggestion that Putin (for we must personify the whole thing) could induce the troglodyte right around Lvov to declare their own Banderastan, as they did, and be taken seriously, breaking from Kiev, days before even regions in East Ukraine made it clear the junta and its quickly evident ethno-linguistic-a-cidal policies precluded co-operation with, or indeed incorporation in what was effectively a brand new and ugly ‘state’ centred in Kiev is unlikely. The document makes contradictory mutually exclusive claims, either the extremists of West Ukraine are controlled by Putin, seceding on his command or are controlled by British and Polish intelligence, it cannot surely be both, but the documents claims both, why would British and Polish intelligence furnish the model, a justification, an example by which East Ukraine could secede, by pointing to the West of Ukraine already having done so?

    We have to consider too that in this region particularly, (but also in Belarus and parts of Russia, to a lesser degree the whole world, southern hemisphere too, the contention of Shute’s ‘On the Beach’ that the southern hemisphere would be ‘safe’ if the northern went up in an atomic conflagration was acknowledged before the book was even in print as false) the people might not be just mad or stupid, the younger more so than the old, but might be both mad and stupid. Pre-natal especially and neo-natal and whole life ionizing radiation significantly impacts IQ and behaviour, even when gross deformity is not present at birth or damage such as tumours have not had time to manifest themselves; next year will be 30 years from Chernobyl, significant numbers of Ukrainians up to the age of thirty, east west and central might not be comparatively the sharpest of tools, through no fault of their own or that of their genetic lot. The coveted ‘black’ soil also not quite so wholesome or appealing as some think.

    Try http://www.ratical.org/radiation/SecretFallout/SF.pdf for IQ/Radiation data, and for miscarriage, still-birth and cot-death info, babies born or not born after all in the rush of bomb tests before the early-sixties test ban became operational particularly badly affected too, 1961 and 1962, 63 must have been bad years for miscarriages, SIDS etc.

    The author of the above ERNEST STERNGLASS just died 15th Feb this year.

    On sock-puppeting, I’ve not used any other nick here, my present nick is a contracted version of one I used earlier for a time before a voluntary absence from this board after a similar moderation debacle, prior to that any comment made was rare and I couldn’t even say what nick I might have used. To Jon, hello. I should have pointed out that you admitted your mod-power skulduggery when forced to and we had a restrained chuckle over it. Does absolute power corrupt absolutely or must there be latent pre-disposition?

    Here’s Paul Craig Roberts on this and the totally unhinged take of the wank-tank CFR http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41095.htm
    and linked from that the view of ex-US Ambassador to USSR Jack Matlock
    http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2015/2015_1-9/2015-08/pdf/10-14_4208.pdf

    Now going read-only. Commenting here saps my limited energy. The game is rigged Calimero says “It’s an injustice!”.

    Straighten up those deckchairs.

  • Kempe

    ” significant numbers of Ukrainians up to the age of thirty, east west and central might not be comparatively the sharpest of tools, through no fault of their own or that of their genetic lot. ”

    I suppose “No” voters in Scotland were similarly affected by leakage from Faslane and Dounraey?

    You’re a laugh a minute.

  • Mark Golding

    President of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) Peter Maurer said that the conflict in Ukraine is a conflict in which a humanitarian assistance has been highly politicized.

    Ukrainian border control officers near a truck of Russia’s eighth humanitarian convoy carrying aid for Donbas residents, at the Matveyev Kurgan checkpoint

    Dispute Brewing in Kiev Over Russian Humanitarian Aid Convoy to Donbas

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Humanitarian assistance in Ukraine is highly politicized, which complicates aid deliveries, President of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) Peter Maurer said Tuesday.
    “The conflict in Ukraine is a conflict in which a humanitarian assistance has been highly politicized. This is not the first time when we are experiencing this. We have experienced it in the context of Syrian crisis,” Maurer said during press conference at Rossiya Segodnya press center.

    Maurer, who recently met Russian President Vladimir Putin to discuss the humanitarian situation in Ukraine, said that he was encouraged by Putin’s words, adding that he values the Red Cross’ cooperation with Russia.

    Peter Maurer, president of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), speaks with volunteers outside a shelter hosting displaced families in the Damascus suburb of Barzeh

    ICRC President to Begin 2-Day Visit to Russia on Monday

    Eastern Ukrainian regions have experienced a severe humanitarian crisis in the past few months due to the fighting between Kiev forces and local independence supporters.
    Russia, in cooperation with the Red Cross, has helped thousands of eastern Ukrainian refugees who were left homeless.

    Since August 2014, Russia has sent 16 humanitarian convoys to Donbas, delivering food, water, clothes, medicines, power generators and building materials.

    Gorilla or not I thank President Vladimir Putin for salvaging the Minsk agreement under so much pressure to play into the hands of the United States and weapons, military, peril, hurt, harm and waste…

  • cm-org.uk

    Tony M has consistently posted from the same IP address and there is no indication of sock puppetry from him.

    Tony M thank you for confirming the comment you were put on pre-mod for is now displayed. The text of the later comment you mentioned was lost whilst editing in a private reply to you.

    This site does not censor on the basis of political position. Abuse is deleted when noticed – there is not 27/7 moderation – and racist comment is also deleted retroactively.

    Craig has repeatedly asked commenters not to impute thoughts or motives to others. Tony M’s comment was removed because it broke that rule.

  • Clark

    Tony M, 1:29:

    “The suggestion that Putin (for we must personify the whole thing)…”

    I’ve started using the term “the Kremlin” to avoid such personification.

    I’m happy for you to present opinions; I just think it’s helpful to clearly label them as such, as you have done above.

    I can’t reach ratical.org; I get a message about the site’s bandwidth limit having been exceeded.

  • Clark

    Macky, 12:16 pm; I expect that document to be authentic for a number of reasons:

    1) It was published by Novaya Gazeta, one of the last remaining independent news publishers in Russia, and broadly recognised as a reliable, award-winning publisher. Six of their staff have been murdered by the Russian establishment, so I doubt that Novaya Gazeta would put more staff at risk just to publish a forgery.

    2) Assuming the date claimed for it to be accurate, it has correctly predicted many aspects of the conflict such as the “Separatist” storming of public offices, calls for referenda etc.

    3) It makes clear why the terms “Donbas” or “Donbas region” are being popularised so vigorously by pro-Kremlin news media. PLEASE look this one up, folks; it’s a smoking gun – clue (and trick question); which country is “the Donbas region” in? Come on, come on, think!

    4) Its interesting descriptions of the oligarchic power structures of Ukraine are in stark contrast to the crude Kremlin depictions of Ukrainian power, suggesting that the document was never intended for public release.

    5) The frantic attempts of pro-Kremlin activists to discredit the document further add to its credibility, despite its description of the Maiden consisting of “football hooligans” controlled by “the criminal underworld, and Polish and British secret services”.

    Before anyone starts lecturing me again, I HAVE read John Pilger’s Hidden Agendas and I DO understand the modus operandi repeatedly deployed by the US, I am not a sheeple, but I believe that the Kremlin are just as capable and willing to use the same techniques.

  • cm-org.uk

    MODERATION NOTICE

    Please do not assume censorship. The spam filter is automatic and occasionally suffers false positives. If this happens to your comment it seems to disappear after you post it. However, if you are on pre-mod or if your comment is suspended manually, you alone will be able to see it, with a line in bold at the bottom like this:

    Your comment is awaiting moderation

    If you see that message, please reread that comment occasionally as you might receive a moderator’s message there.

    The Akismet spam filter ate several copies of Mark Golding’s comment which contained a link to Sputniknews.com. Probably spam has been sent from the same IP address as Sputniknews.com, or spam elsewhere has included links to Sputniknews. These explanations are more likely than political censorship via Akismet, though it is remotely possible.

  • Macky

    Mod; “Craig has repeatedly asked commenters not to impute thoughts or motives to others”

    Yet;

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/01/unionists-an-apology/#comment-502646

    So Craig can do it but not Tony M is a much more constructive way;

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/02/amnesty-international-conference-on-torture/comment-page-6/#comment-510869

    Isn’t the constant smearing of Posters as “anti-Western” or “Putin Lovers” not imputing motives to others ?

  • Mary

    Unleaded petrol has been 104.9p/l @ supermarket petrol stations in this part of leafless Surrey for some months but today the price was 109.9p/l. Is the crude price rising?

  • Squonk

    Mary,

    Gap between Brent and WTI has increased

    Brent (most of world benchmark) $61.67
    WTI (USA) $49.03

    Refined product prices follow Brent – even in USA

    ==

    Sad news indeed about Leonard Nimoy.

  • Squonk

    Hope you are well as well Mary, Still no reply from Ben despite direct emails. Hope he’s okay,

    Worth noting that OPEC and Russian oil usually trades at close to Brent price, some other oils at Brent + premium. Brent is the better indicator of what is happening to oil worldwide when the two benchmarks drift apart. The Wall Street Casino influences Brent (for a time at least) via the future price trading (gambling) market to a greater degree than the others.

  • Republicofscotland

    “Being an MP must be a full-time commitment,

    double jobbing MP’s won’t get a look in, when I’m in charge.”

    David Cameron 21st of May 2009.

    http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk/
    …………………………………

    Another hot air comment from the Den of Iniquity, aka Westminster.

  • Macky

    @Clark, Firstly do you not agree that even IF this document is authentic the fact that Novaya Gazeta states that this was not a document drawn up ny the Kremlin, and that it cannot be confirmed as ever seen by the Kremlin, with the vague “could have been”, rather destroys the reason why RD initially introduced it, which was “evidence of plots by Russia to annex parts of the Ukraine, & evidence of military involvement by Russia” ?

    Clark; “1) It was published by Novaya Gazeta, one of the last remaining independent news publishers in Russia, and broadly recognised as a reliable, award-winning publisher. Six of their staff have been murdered by the Russian establishment, so I doubt that Novaya Gazeta would put more staff at risk just to publish a forgery.”

    The owner of Novaya Gazeta Alexander Lebedev is a well known critic of Russia. He also part owns with his son Evgeny Lebedev four English papers, one being The Independent, which claimed in it’s article on this document that “Vladimir Putin’s office reportedly compiled a detailed roadmap”, a blatant lie as we know according to the document itself ! So you can see I hope why some question the journalistic “integrity” Novaya Gazeta. Lebedev apparently failed to get a government position himself, so the family is considered by some on a vengeance trip, spreading Putin-hating propaganda. Your last sentence comment is counter-intuitive as the staff would be at the same, if not greater risk for spreading lying sedition.

    Clark;”2) Assuming the date claimed for it to be accurate, it has correctly predicted many aspects of the conflict such as the “Separatist” storming of public offices, calls for referenda etc.”

    Yet assuming that it’s a forgery would also equally explain why it “correctly predicted” many events !

    Clark; “3) It makes clear why the terms “Donbas” or “Donbas region” are being popularised so vigorously by pro-Kremlin news media. PLEASE look this one up, folks; it’s a smoking gun – clue (and trick question); which country is “the Donbas region” in? Come on, come on, think!”

    This is nonsense, “Donbas” is used everywhere, even in the MSM in the West, even the BBC ! It refers to a specific geographical area.

    Clark; “4) Its interesting descriptions of the oligarchic power structures of Ukraine are in stark contrast to the crude Kremlin depictions of Ukrainian power, suggesting that the document was never intended for public release.”

    Yet others argue that exactly because it is written in a non-formal and conspiracy theory-laden language, saying that Russia is controlled by oligarchs and bureaucrats, is something that would NOT be found in an official report submitted to the Kremlin

    Clark; “5) The frantic attempts of pro-Kremlin activists to discredit the document further add to its credibility, despite its description of the Maiden consisting of “football hooligans” controlled by “the criminal underworld, and Polish and British secret services”.”

    The first part is nonsense logic, pro-Kremlin activists will of course especially attempt to show something if it is fake ! The well known US funding & support for Maidan is a bizarre omission, which is very suspect.

    Clark; “Before anyone starts lecturing me again, I HAVE read John Pilger’s Hidden Agenda”

    Have you read Pilger’s latest, linked here by both Mary & myself ? What do you think about his points iro Ukraine ?

  • Republicofscotland

    Judged by its own stated goals, government austerity,isn’t working, borrowing will be around £61.5 billion more than planned.

    Of course the reality is that austerity policies are actually designed to dismantle the welfare state, bring down wages, and fully marketise the economy.

    Destroying all the social and economic gains,of the ordinary people, since the second world war.

    So from the governments point of view, the policies are working.

    Ken Loach

    Film and TV director.

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