Honoured to give the keynote speech at Amnesty’s conference on torture in London yesterday. Then dashed back to Edinburgh for a very romantic evening with Nadira – and Cameron!
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Herbie
I’ll assume that’s a serious question (but knowing you, perhaps it isn’t).
One difference is that a casseur uses actual violence whereas an agent provocateur can act in a variety of ways.
Now, I think what you’re hinting at is that some of the casseurs are actually agents provocateur in the pay of the authorities. Well, some may be, sometimes – it is not impossible or inconceivable.
But that is a diversion from my main point, which was to express the hope that the wearing of masks at demonstrations will shortly be made illegal as an aid to identifying anyone – whether simple casseurs or agents provocateur acting as casseurs – engaging in violence at demonstrations.
If you are genuinely worried about agents provocateurs at demonstrations then you must surely agree with me.
I wonder what Smoothface has in mind for Harry, Beatrice and Eugenie and the rest of them bringing up the rear.
‘PM: Young Unemployed Will Work For Benefits
David Cameron says his reforms aim to end long-term unemployment and help youngsters understand “welfare is not a one-way street”.’
http://news.sky.com/story/1428774/pm-young-unemployed-will-work-for-benefits
Habby
I can understand why govts insert agents provocateur into protests etc.
But who is running these casseurs, and to what purpose.
Rzepublicofscotland
I know what Abbot looks like but have never seen a picture of Stephen Harper.
Does he have droopy chops?
Herbie
“But who is running these casseurs, and to what purpose.”
________________
Perhaps they’re just running themselves, so to speak. There could be a variety of motives: some just like a bit of aggro (and feel safer in the midst of a peaceful and respectable demonstration – they are more difficult for the police to get at), others might be making their political point in a deplorable manner, etc.
I take it you would not approve of people making political points on the streets of a UK city through violence, would you Herbie?
Habbabkuk, the violent can be recognised by their violence. There’s no need to ban masks.
I wonder who arranged this incident; it seems the press were given appointments:
http://www.killick1.plus.com/pictures/photo-op.jpg
In light of all the ‘Je Suis Charlie’ free speech hoopla, the French regime just confirmed their fraudulent stance on the issue by sentencing a man, Vincent Reynouard, to two years in jail for his non-violent historical opinions concerning the ‘Holocaust.’ The ‘free speech’ sham continues in the Talmudic Republic of France.
http://nonalignedmedia.com/2015/02/holocaust-skeptic-sentenced-two-years-prison-france/
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Two years in prison for voicing his opinion, he didn’t assault or injure or damage anyone/anything, he voiced his opinion, and received two years.
Its just a matter of time, until this madness hits the UK.
There’s nothing funny happening in E Ukraine which looks like a bomb site literally apart from the BBC link yesterday when their ‘reporter’ Ian Pannell was seen ducking, flinching and then running as shells exploded nearby. For outgoing read incoming. Truly the ‘fogh’ of war.
BBC Reporter Almost Killed by Ukrainian Shell While Accusing Rebels of Shelling
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1424189332.html
Ukraine crisis: Artillery fired at Donetsk airport during ceasefire
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31491767
Pannell is infamous for his part in the BBC ‘Saving Syria’s Children’ production. Robert Stuart took on the BBC Trust.
https://bbcpanoramasavingsyriaschildren.wordpress.com/
So, habby, your casseurs are just disruptive malcontents, and agents provocateur are govt employed disruptives.
I have to say that the govts who employ such tactics are not setting a very good example, are they.
Indeed, such govts sound very dubious.
No wonder people are protesting.
Perhaps govts send in agents provocateur if they fear not enough casseurs will turn up.
Meanwhile, the Zionazi genocidaires protecting their impunity in traditional fashion, by turning the international community’s pacific dispute resolution into a monkeyhouse shitfight.
https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2015/02/16/interview-with-william-schabas-former-chair-un-commission-of-inquiry-for-2014-israeli-attack-on-gaza/
The Obomber family are competing with our royals to see which family can waste the most public money on travel and holidays.
A VERY expensive getaway:The First Family’s Valentine’s Day apart cost the taxpayer at least $2.5m as Barack golfed in California while Michelle went on secret ski trip to Aspen
President Barack Obama flew to California for a fundraiser and a speech
He then spent the next three days playing golf at an exclusive resort
At the same time Michelle and Malia and Sasha were skiing in Aspen
Figures show that Air Force One costs $228,288 per hour to run
As a result, the ten-hour return trip to California would cost almost $2.3m
It is estimated that Mrs Obama’s skiing trip cost a further $100,000
With accommodation and car rental, the weekend break would cost $2.5m
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2957072/A-expensive-getaway-Obama-family-s-separate-weekend-trips-trips-cost-2-5-million-did-Barack-spend-Valentine-s-golfing-California-Michelle-went-skiing-Colorado.html
The UK spent around £140,000 of taxpayers’ money on training the Myanmar army, which is accused of the recruitment of child soldiers, journalist intimidation, and using rape as a weapon.
According to the recent revelation by the Ministry of Defense (MoD), 60 Myanmar military officers took part in training course led by the British government in 2014, The Telegraph reported.
The funding has sparked criticism over what one British MP refers to as “war crimes” which are carried out by Myanmar’s military.
According to the UN Country Task Force on Monitoring and Reporting, in 2013 and 2014, 126 children were allegedly recruited in to the country’s army.
There are also reports of over 100 cases of rape being used by some Burmese officers as a weapon of war.
The army also faces accusations of threatening journalists inquiring into the country’s human rights records.
The Myanmar government has also been repeatedly criticized by human rights groups for failing to protect the Rohingya Muslims.
The MoD’s full scale of involvement with the Myanmar’s military surfaced this week following questions asked of Labor party MP Valerie Vaz.
“The Burmease Army is perpetrating what I would say is a war crime by using rape as a weapon. They should be protecting their own citizens not raping and murdering them, Mrs Vaz said.
“It is a grave matter of concern that UK Government money could possibly being going into an organization that is perpetrating these terrible crimes.”
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/02/16/397904/UK-funds-Myanmar-child-soldiers
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Nothing changes in the minds of Westminster and Whitehall, as the United Queendom trains soldiers, who use rape as a weapon, amongst other terrible crimes, are the use of child soldiers.
Is Israel DARING anyone to do something about these obvious FALSE FLAG’s?
1. Masked (of course) Gunmen (or gunman) unknown at the time but who turn out to be “Muslims” who turn up dead later (PATSIES) are involved in a shooting to do with a drawing disrespecting Muhammad. To make you think “Muslims” did it, “news” articles will say that the shooter(s) yelled “ALLAH AKBAR” or “God Is Great” which is a sure sign of a false flag.
2. There’s a secondary shooting at a Jewish-related site (kosher deli, synagogue, etc…because the first shooting wasn’t didn’t directly kill Jews and wasn’t anti-semetic enough).
3. Netanyahu goes on air and says the country hates Jews and they should move to Israel.
Guess what happened in Copenhagen, Denmark?
1. Masked (of course) Gunmen (or gunman) unknown at the time but who turn out to be “Muslims” who turn up dead later (PATSIES) are involved in a shooting to do with a drawing disrespecting Muhammad. To make you think “Muslims” did it, “news” articles will say that the shooter(s) yelled “ALLAH AKBAR” or “God Is Great” which is a sure sign of a false flag.
2. There’s a secondary shooting at a Jewish-related site (kosher deli, synagogue, etc…because the first shooting wasn’t didn’t directly kill Jews and wasn’t anti-semetic enough).
3. Netanyahu goes on air and says the country hates Jews and they should move to Israel.
http://bigdanblogger.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/would-netanyahu-and-mossad-do-exact.html
………………………………
Hmm…..It does seem fishy to me.
Herbie
Further to our mini-discussion of violence and casseurs at demonstrations you might be interested in the following post from Phil on Squonk:
“Clark
You wanted to know about housing demos. Here’s one this Thursday. You’re welcome to crash at mine. It’s going to be lively.
https://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2015/02/16/this-is-our-city-not-theirs-its-time-to-tell-the-rich-to-fuck-off/”
Both Phil’s little comment (“lively”) and the content of the link he provided appear to announce the distinct possibility of some violence at the forthcoming demonstration.
In this case, I should put any violence down not to mindless casseurs but to people who are intending to make their (perfectly legitimate) political point through violence.
Would you agree with that and would you agree that his post and link might go some way to explaining why he has not answered my original question(s) so far?
“You’re welcome to crash at mine. It’s going to be lively.”
Sounds like a party, habby.
“people who are intending to make their (perfectly legitimate) political point through violence.”
That’s certainly what govts do. I wouldn’t advise civilians to engage in such activity, nor indeed do I see anything that advocates violence at that site.
Can’t guarantee the govt won’t send in agents provocateur, of course.
Herbie
“So, habby, your casseurs are just disruptive malcontents”
________________
Some of them, Herbie – what we might call the mindless thugs and hooligans. And, as I said, others are people who are trying to make a political point through violence.
And as you suggested as a theoretical exercise, a few might on occasion even be agents provocateur acting on behalf of the state.
I hope you would not let the latter possibility deter you from condemning casseurs in general?
Herbie
“That’s certainly what govts do. I wouldn’t advise civilians to engage in such activity, nor indeed do I see anything that advocates violence at that site.”
_________________
Then you have not read Phil’s link properly (or at all).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
““You’re welcome to crash at mine. It’s going to be lively.”
Sounds like a party, habby.”
_________________
You may be right, Herbie. Could you please check with Phil?
Clark
“Habbabkuk, the violent can be recognised by their violence. There’s no need to ban masks.”
________________
The first sentence is obviously true. But it is not always possible for the police to extract the violent elements from the crowd and, as you know, casseurs have been known to have been identified and apprehended after the violent events where they have been careless enough not to have worn masks.
I gather you are in favour of letting demonstrators wear masks. Now, at the vast majority of demonstrations I’ve observed, most of the demonstrators see no need to wear masks. Why do you think that should be, Clark?
“I hope you would not let the latter possibility deter you from condemning casseurs in general?”
Can you provide some history of the term “casseurs” as it applies to protests?
I’m assuming here that it didn’t just emerge as a neologism for agents provocateur. It may have emerged as a distraction from govts age old use of agents provocateur, but I’ll assume it’s identifying something new, for the moment.
When, where, and in what context did this term emerge to cover violence at protests?
Is it from the French Revolution, or is it more recent.
Thanks.
Bloody hell, some bods from the BBC seem to be reading these blog comments.
The BBC Six O’clock News this evening; not one mention of the Muslim bogeyman. Well into the broadcast they ran a piece about a 30 ton tipper truck that went out of control in south west England, which sadly killed a number of people. I was just waiting for them to say that the tipper truck was driven by Abdullah *mad bastard* Mohammed, but they didn’t.
But I’m still really, really worried about the ‘terrorist attack’ in Copenhagen at the weekend.
I’ve got spare batteries for my torch.
Herbie
““I hope you would not let the latter possibility deter you from condemning casseurs in general?”
Can you provide some history of the term “casseurs” as it applies to protests?”
_________________
I certainly could.
So – do you condemn casseurs on general or do you look upon them with a certain benevolence?
Thursday’s protest is about social segregation.
Social segregation usually accompanies a descent into fascism. Social segregation was practised in Nazi Germany, Apartheid South Africa, in the southern states of the USA, and is currently being applied in Israel. Generally it has been based upon ethnicity, but segregation by economic class is surely no better and probably much more dangerous. It is vital that tendency is stopped before it can get any worse.
Social segregation is a highly important issue and I hope that many people take part on Thursday.
“But I’m still really, really worried about the ‘terrorist attack’ in Copenhagen at the weekend.
I’ve got spare batteries for my torch.”
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Yeah RobG me too, my local Muslim newsagents let me off without paying 5p, I hadn’t the change, a sinister thing to do, I’m expecting a visit from Jihad Johnny, with his little black knife, and his bandalero full of TNT.
“Can you provide some history of the term “casseurs” as it applies to protests?”
_________________
I certainly could.”
Go ahead then, habby
I’ve already stated my view on violence, whether it be from govts or civilians. I’m agin it, unless of course in self-defence.
Well, I seem to be doing something right, since my spiderbomb.com domain has been hacked into, yet again.
Habba, you would just love the ‘Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act’, which was passed into law last year (by Queenypoos), and which effectively makes peaceful protest in the UK illegal.
‘No, no, no, you really don’t live in a police state’, the doormouse said to Alice.
“Nothing from Resident Dissident about NATO in Ukraine. Nothing from Resident Dissident about the great craters under the twin towers in which he lost a friend or relative. Nothing about the poor dead children, women and other civilians in the video in the link Dreoilin provided which I feel justified in repeating”
Unlike you I have a job to do – you know the sort that pays the taxes that pays the pensions offered by our evil state. Re the geology of NY you will find that Komodo and I addressed the rock formations on an earlier post back in the middle of January – might I suggest you look up the meaning of metamorphic with regard to rocks. Did I ever tell you I have a relative who is a geologist. And it was a friend who lost a brother in the twin towers.
As for killing people perhaps you might wish to comment on how the rebels are ignoring the ceasefire in Debaltsevo – on the basis that it was not included when it clearly was.
Banning masks at demonstrations would be unacceptably repressive.
Demonstrators wear masks for various reasons, the most common being to make some point. They wear mask in a political character’s likeness for purposes of parody, or they wear a Guy Fawkes mask to show support for Anonymous. Such practises should not be banned.
I have NEVER seen violence from demonstrators except in self defence. I’ve seen provocation of the police and petty vandalism, but I have never seen protesters initiate an attack upon other people, so further restrictions are unnecessary.
If people are determined to engage in violence a ban on masks will be ineffective anyway. People could simply carry a scarf in their pocket and put it on when ready.
A ban on “masks” would be implemented in law as a ban on “face coverings” which could then be used to discriminate against Muslim women.
I oppose any such legislation.
Resident Dissident has frequently defended his use of a pseudonym because his employer might take exception to him expressing political views on this site.
Masks should not be banned at demonstrations for the same reason.
@Republicofscotland
17 Feb, 2015 – 7:14 pm
And your Muslim newsagent wouldn’t have charged you interest on the 5p he let you off, because usury is forbidden in Islam – although totally vile regimes like Saudi Arabia find ways round this; but they can’t be vile: they’re our closest allies!
Thanks Mary for the link to the BBC journalist almost killed from a mortar shell from the Ukrainians which finishes.
“If you want to go up the career ladder, self-imposed censorship is a must for every journalist working in the Western mainstream media.”
Peter Oborne made it up the career ladder because he is a good honest journalist. He has resigned because he is disgusted that the Telegraph pulled an HSBC scandal story to please the advertisers. That’s what it’s all about. How they can lie to you and present it as truth. While Resident Dissident is convinced that only the separatists are firing in Debaltsevo.