We are directly responsible for the disasters in the Mediterranean. The bombing of Libya into failed state status is now coming back to haunt us. The ludicrous idea, propounded by Blair, Robert Cooper and the Henry Jackson Society, that you could improve dictatorial states by massive bombing campaigns that targeted their basic infrastructure, is now a total bust. Sadly so are Iraq and Libya, to the permanent detriment of many millions of people. We caused both the Islamic State and the Mediterranean boat disasters, and we caused them with bombs.
But the lack of any effective policing is only part of the problem. What makes people so desperate that they are prepared to give all of the small amount they own, to ruthless gangs, in exchange for a dreadful sea crossing with a one in ten chance of drowning? Most of the refugees are sub-Saharan African. We only see the European end of the saga, not the terrible conditions on the cross Saharan journeys that they start with.
There will be no security anywhere if the world does not address the terrible scourge of African poverty and under-development. That is a huge subject on which I have written extensively and worked much of my life, and I do not wish to open it here. But what it does show is the utter stupidity – inhumanity yes, but also stupidity – of UKIP in thinking that cutting development aid will increase the economic security of the UK.
Macky at 11.10 pm. Rest assured I read the links. I do not want any more US/EU/NATO wars. Like you I am able to see who is responsible for them.
A bit of research on the Web would have revealed that Engdahl is a former follower of Lyndon LaRouche.
“Here is an American who has realised where the faults lie. A veteran of Iraq he is a gift for any interviewer. Ken O’Keefe explains at a rapid pace (someone described his delivery as being like a Gatling gun) the reason for all the problems in the world. Needless to say he has renounced his US citizenship.”
He is also a 9-11 conspiracy theorist.
As though that were a disqualification.
It undermines the struggle.
“He is also a 9-11 conspiracy theorist.”
Oh, my God, Daniel. Is there anybody who isn’t? 🙂
Daniel, I would be very much surprised if Craig is not moderating his opinions on this. I know he is suspicious of Building 7.
Maybe O’Keefe is a conspiracy theorist because of the things he witnessed in Iraq?
Saudi cries uncle. They suspended their bombing.
“I asked John Goss and Macky very directly for over an hour if they were deliberately advancing the agenda of the Kremlin and neither of them could bring themselves to deny it.”
I have no idea whether Macky refused to comment for the same reason as me or not. You kept reproducing this Clark and asking it more than once till in the end I had to say I have no idea what the agenda of the Kremlin is, if I recall correctly. Did I not?
Using lala fingers I am not listening; is the best possible method of struggle.
A bunch of Arabs a whole team of nineteen of them whom could not fly a kite never mind jets planned and executed an operation by passing the whole of the US defence network (air, space, land) armed with Stanley knives and succeeded in blowing up of the asbestos towers that was beset with occupancy troubles due to its crime hit, filthy rotten smelly corridors, all in the way of attacking what? Oh yeah “Western Values”.
Talk about cognitive dissonance, and the sis up the shit creek without a paddle, trying to shove a square peg into round hole.
“Daniel, I would be very much surprised if Craig is not moderating his opinions on this. I know he is suspicious of Building 7.”
John, his suspicions are unfounded. All conspiracy theories regarding the WTC including building 7, have been thoroughly and comprehensively debunked.
“A bunch of Arabs a whole team of nineteen of them whom could not fly a kite never mind jets planned and executed an operation by passing the whole of the US defence network (air, space, land) armed with Stanley knives and succeeded in blowing up of the asbestos towers that was beset with occupancy troubles due to its crime hit, filthy rotten smelly corridors, all in the way of attacking what? Oh yeah “Western Values”.
So I didn’t really see planes flying into the WTC after all? THanks for clearing that one up.
“I asked John Goss and Macky very directly for over an hour if they were deliberately advancing the agenda of the Kremlin and neither of them could bring themselves to deny it.”
Clark, was this not the answer I gave? Also, over an hour on this blog. or even ver a day, is not an extortionate length of time to wait for an answer, should someone choose to answer. The answer itself can be extortionate itself sometimes, but I think you will agree this was not.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/02/amnesty-international-conference-on-torture/comment-page-10/#comment-511691
“Maybe O’Keefe is a conspiracy theorist because of the things he witnessed in Iraq?”
I don’t know about that but what I do know is that his views on 9-11 are stark raving bonkers.
Greeks are harder to fool than most;
http://sputniknews.com/society/20150421/1021161595.html
(John, I didn’t dignify Gestapo Clark’s insulting & moronic acusation, which was he was trying to pose as an innocent question; hard to believe that an adult can engage in such an infantile level of debate)
Macky, Clark has a lot of qualities. I know he never, or very rarely, criticises Craig. But he is concerned for the environment, opposes the war against Palestinians, and would make a very good compatriot (I almost wrote comrade 🙂 ) if he could only see what the intention is in Ukraine. The cost has already been too high.
As to the survey you posted it is so revealing, perhaps even of Clark and Mary (praying for her) that we put so much trust in the links they put out.
“Britons have the greatest trust in mainstream media, the poll revealed. As many as 55 percent of respondents there said they put a great deal or a fair amount of trust in the coverage of events in Ukraine by British media, while 33 percent said it was biased.”
“Clark has a lot of qualities”
I’m sorry to say that for me, his negatives massively dwarf his positives, and having him as any sort of comrade is a far from harmless liability.
Debunk them for us, Daniel. We’ll wait.
http://www.consensus911.org
Macky, we all have qualities. I understand where you are coming from, and I suggest over most issues we may be coming from a similar direction. It was in support of Assange I first associated with Clark. And thanks to Wikileaks we have such information as this.
“With his report to Washington John Beyrle unwittingly exposed Boris Nemtsov and Vladimir Milov from the movement “Solidarity”, Gregory Bovt from “The Right Cause” party, and Vladimir Ryzhkov, a former head of the Republican party.
“…They agreed that the purpose of the political opposition in the next two years should be to work to prevent the return of Putin to the presidency. But, according to their opinion, and considering the control of Putin over society, his overthrow can only be caused by some kind of emergency situation. Bovt said that civil society in Russia at the present time is asleep and will unlikely actively oppose the current regime,” – quoted the words of his guests the US ambassador.”
So Boris Nemtsov can quite clearly be seen as a US asset, though we all knew it anyway.
http://fortruss.blogspot.in/2015/03/moscow-us-embassy-cables-on-wikileaks.html
RobG (Referring to a quote from “Anon1”) : “Anon1, you won’t last long at GCHQ if you keep coming out with such unsophisticated statements.”
(RobG was referring to a particularly sycophantic outpouring of Royal-worshipping bilge from “anon1”, on the occasion of QE2’s birthday.)
Rob – don’t you think silly nonsense like that is only intended as a troll, to wind people up? What would you conclude about the original statement , and the intent of the author? Why would you respond to it as obviously intended?
Anon/1/2/whatever, is merely highlighting himself as an Establishment stooge, and a troll on this blog. Why would you want to respond to such guff and cynical behaviour?
Denial wrote: “So I didn’t really see planes flying into the WTC after all? THanks for clearing that one up.”
Straw man. But would you be kind enough to reference a picture or movie of a plane hitting the Pentagon? Thanks.
John Goss, you did give an answer, but not to the question I posed, which was about your intention.
No, I don’t accept the depictions in the “Western” corporate media. Regarding the conflict in Ukraine, I don’t accept either of those opposing propagandas. I see two big empires eating a much smaller, economically weaker and almost defenceless country. Carving it up between them, getting its people to fight over the slices for them.
Regarding 9/11, instead of churning out endless additional theories that effectively supply cover, we should be unanimously attacking the official fiction:
THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT RELIES UPON CONFESSIONS EXTRACTED UNDER TORTURE:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_9/11_Commission#Harsh_interrogation
http://web.archive.org/web/20080407223205/http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/30/624314.aspx
I’ve just seen news about a trader who faces extradition to the US for apparently making money out of placing fake trades on the stock market, that caused the US stock market to lose billions.
Behold how greed brings about its own righteous punishment, sometimes. Ah, there is Justice in the world, sometimes. I wonder how Providence will catch up with some of the people the writers here love to hate (some of them might be worthy of severe punishment, no doubt).
** NEWS FLASH **
The Tories have announced, in their indescribable benevolence, that they *won’t* tax people working 30 hours on minimum wage. The maximum is £6.50 which makes about £200 for a 30-hour week, or about £10000 per annum. Trouble is, the tax-free allowance from the Lib Dems for everyone is 12.5k and that from UKIP is 13.5k. But the Tories have a cunning plan – compel housing associations to sell their property to tenants, on which they will make huge profits in coming years and be loyal to the Tories for this windfall.
John Goss and Macky evaded giving direct answers, but have each answered adequately since. John Goss said that he’s proud to further the propaganda projected by Russia Today RT. Macky has said that she will oppose any criticism of Russian government policy while Russia is “under attack” from the “West” – well, Russia and the “West” have been in conflict since the Cold War at least, with no end in sight. So John Goss and Macky are supporters of Russian government policy.
Cue further ad hominen (as per the Kremlin trolling manual?) from Macky…
@ Habby 21 Apr, 2015 – 18:24 EDT Maryland Time
but Habby, you’re ignoring the sworn court testimony (you do respect a court of law don’t you?) last year from a Mabahith Amn al-Dawla security minister of the Egyptian Morsi government, who corroborated in fine detail the steps taken to start the Arab spring.
I also have the template & source for the Arabic ‘revolutionary documents’, I can identify the computers used, where the images come from. The same documents, of course, were later found in Kiyv. The BBC, in a moment of sanity, even noticed that the first Egyptian ‘Arab Spring’ revolution was a color revolution http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12522848
of course, all of this ‘Horror’ evidence, including the sworn testimony (just before the “Morsi trial” went into secret in-camera mode, could have been planted by the omnipresent Putin, or ‘made-up’ by Engdahl {take your pick}
Every empire needs its Generalgouvernment. Decapitate society, set faction against faction and hey presto! Free oil and plenty of cheap labour with the bonus of automatic wastage. It’s almost as if the US and its lackeys planned it….
Clark; “So John Goss and Macky are supporters of Russian government policy.”
No, not the “logic” of an acne face confused adolescent, but of a supposedly mature adult ! 😀
By such logic, Clark’s many pro-Kiev statements would qualify Clark as a blinkered supporter of blood-soaked murdering Neo-Nazis, statements such as these;
“it was the people who overthrew the government, no matter that the new government proceeded to attack east Ukraine”
“I accept that there was widespread support for the overthrow of the former Ukrainian government”
“I regard the presence of Russian and pro-Russian forces in east Ukraine as proven”
The pariah “State” continues to delegitimatise itself;
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/04/gaza-fallout-understand-crimes-150420130139305.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/21/israel-deported-them-then-isis-cut-off-their-heads.html
“I see two big empires eating a much smaller, economically weaker and almost defenceless country. Carving it up between them, getting its people to fight over the slices for them.”
You need to go to Specsavers. 🙂 Because you see it wrong Clark.
Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire since at least the days of Catherine the Great (and long before but it is pointless going back further.) It was part of Soviet Russia too. There was no civil war in Ukraine after it became part of the republic in 1922.
In 1991 as part of the dissolution of the Soviet Union Russia did not declare war to retain Ukraine. Relations and trade links were maintained. In February 2014 a fascist western-funded coup deposed the legitimate president Yanukovich after which war was declared by these fascists on its own people in Eastern Ukraine because they did not agree with the illegal coup.
Where is Russian expansionism in this? Quite the reverse. They gave it up without a fight in 1991. Putin has said Russia does not want Ukraine. Things can of course change if Russian borders are threatened.
Clark, it is not my job to give you a basic history lesson, but if you start from the above, at least you have some kind of sound basis for argument instead of going off on one of your “the way I see it”s. I cannot speak for Macky. My own reason for not giving you my full attention is because you are so blinkered and your logic has no sound premise. Sorry to be so blunt. There is only one aggressor in this civil-war. It is funded and trained by us.