The almost total blackout on broadcast media of the police attack on the popular protest by thousands outside Downing Street – with 30 injured and 17 arrests – is in stark contrast to the wall to wall coverage of the staged fake “riot” in Glasgow in which 6 people were slightly rude to Jim Murphy with no arrests and no injuries.
Thanks to the UK’s appalling electoral system, we now have a seriously right wing government with absolute power from an absolute parliamentary majority, but which 63% of voters voted against, and which was supported by only 23% of those eligible to vote. Many of the 38% who did not vote at all, were not apathetic but actively disgusted by a corrupt political system which offers little meaningful choice in most of the UK.
Legitimacy is a different question to legality. The government is undoubtedly legal under the current rotten system, but its legitimacy is a different question entirely. Legitimacy lies on the popular consent of the governed. With an extreme government supported by only 23% of the population, actively planning to inflict actual harm on many more than 23% of the population, there are legitimate philosophical questions to be asked about the right of the government to rule. With so many, particularly but not exclusively young people, now reading sources like this one and not being enthralled by the mainstream media, today’s protest is but a start.
Jimmy – what do you make of the MRA Wikipedia entry? Do you think it is fair to the movement, in general? I see that the editors’ talk page is pretty busy, indicating perhaps some edit-warring has been going on.
@Jon 12:30 pm
I don’t bother with MRA, I’m a right-wing anarchist. I oppose feminism, even Fedup’s ‘milk flavoured feminism, on the grounds that it is an evil death cult, deployed by the State to subvert a nations culture.
Identifying the ‘plants’ – Did you see the masked person near the Monument to the Women of World War II in Whitehall who disappeared behind police lines BEFORE THE ‘KETTLING’? Answers to [email protected]
Thanks to ‘Pea’ and friends.
Did anyone post this yet? The silencing of the ‘debate’:
http://www.theecologist.org/campaigning/2852106/how_the_tories_and_lib_dems_have_stifled_their_most_powerful_critics.html
Anon: “thousands of mindless student union activists out for a good laugh”
You seem to know very little about a) students b) activists c) what constitutes a ‘good laugh’. Why is this?
“The truth is, Craig, Miliband did shift Labour a little to the left, just enough to make it unelectable, and he got wiped out for it. A truly left wing party is simply not electable in this country.”
I’m not in denial when I say that’s probably counter-intuitive. The second biggest voting bloc after the Tory voters were not Labour but the third of the electorate who for one reason or another decided to abstain from voting. Arguably, an extremely large proportion of these abstainees were the kinds of apoplectic young people who demonstrated outside Downing Street, who had they been mobilized into participating in the democratic process, would almost certainly have resulted in a different outcome.
But they will only be mobilized if their votes to some extent count which, given the current discredited FPTP system, they don’t. The potential voters who on the whole think their votes are wasted ones are mainly the disenfranchised third outlined above.
I think we can say with a high degree of certainty that, given the opportunity, many of the disenfranchised in England would have voted for a genuine ideological alternative to austerity.
@Jon “A truly left wing party is simply not electable in this country. ”
I don’t know about that. Just after the VE celebrations (commemorated this weekend) Attlee got elected and brought the NHS into bring!
But it may need much hard work by way of preparation.
“The little socialist utopia that the Scotch want to create is not viable without English money. Cameron will send you all the money you want for your welfare paradise and then sit back and watch as without opposition the SNP pisses it all down the drain. Then he’ll liquidate Scotland.”
SNP politics is faith, not evidence, based. Like the independence white paper had faith oil prices would remain high their manifesto has faith the Scottish economy would grow if they reduce taxes thus enabling them to reduce taxes and austerity at the same time. It just wouldn’t work but half the Scottish electorate will believe anything they tell them.
They are like the American far right Neocons who bragged of being able to create their own reality as they go along.
@Daniel
That’s the thing, the alternative to ‘austerity’ is only idealogical; because austerity is real, and has to be addressed in reality.
Lysias 12.10 am
“Yes, representative democracy does not work. At least not any longer, when the plutocrats have such an overwhelming proportion of the wealth.
The ancient Athenians knew how to limit the political power of the rich. They had an Assembly as what one might call the lower house of their legislature, which all adult male citizens had the right to attend, and indeed at times during their history were paid to attend. A state of the size of modern states cannot have that, although perhaps technical substitutes are possible. But, for the rest, except for their chief executive officers, the strategoi or generals (who were elected), they used the system of choosing officials, legislators (in the Council or Boule, the upper house), and jurors (who were all there was of a judicial system — there were no judges) by lot from among the whole adult male citizenry. We would now not want to exclude women from the choice, and obviously we do not want to have slaves the way the Athenians did. But, if we choose officials in this way, all segments of the population, in whatever way you define the segments, would be represented proportionally to their share in the general population, by the laws of statistics.”
I completely agree. Politics by lot would kill the current corporate control stone dead. I posted something similar on another thread here last week. Professional politicians are a massive part of the problem. And should have no part in the solution. Personally I would trust Joe or Mary Public above a paid politico every time.
Daniel
“I think we can say with a high degree of certainty that, given the opportunity, many of the disenfranchised in England would have voted for a genuine ideological alternative to austerity.”
What, the greens are not “genuine” enough for these slumbering social democratic hordes?
You seem to know a lot Anon1 – are you ‘theRealElvis’ that infested ‘WebCameron’ ? – don’t let the ‘wringer’ affect your studies.
@Anon1
“Or was it the secret services, or the aliens, or was the whole thing staged by crisis actors? Or was it in fact a hologram?”
Anon1 you are a hologram. And when you come to realise that you are a hologram then you will have woken up.
The Greens had the policies. They just didn’t have the financing, the tactics, the media, the power base, or the ruthless single-mindedness.
I think we can say with a high degree of certainty that, given the opportunity, many of the disenfranchised in England would have voted for a genuine ideological alternative to austerity.”
What, the greens are not “genuine” enough for these slumbering social democratic hordes?
Yes, the Green’s did offer a genuine alternative. The point is, given the deficiencies of FPTP, the massive bloc of non-voters clearly thought that engaging in the democratic process was a waste of time.
Anon1 : “You decide.”
OK, I’ll try.
Well, the culprit might have been a protester. In a crowd that big, there will always be a few idiots who won’t realise that such an act would help their enemy. However, such an idiot would have to have turned up at the demo armed with an aerosol can, therefore we’re supposing someone clever enough to plan ahead, politically aware enough to join a protest, but too stupid to appreciate the consequences of his actions. Hmmmm? Still, it’s a possibility, I can’t rule it out.
Who else? Well, it could have been an agent provocateur. We know with certainty that the police and MI5 use agents in such protests with the specific aim of inciting violence and vandalism. This enables the media to report the protest but focus on the ‘mindless thuggery’ rather than the message of the protesters. I note that the mainstream media didn’t start reporting the demo until after this act of ‘vandalism’. The agents provocateurs have a motive, and the results are consistent with their strategy. Hmmmm. This theory seems more plausible than the other, still, I mustn’t jump to conclusions.
Let me consider the evidence. Nobody has been arrested, no witnesses have come forward, there is no CCTV video of the incident and nobody has claimed responsibility.
So we have two suspects but absolutely no evidence either way, yet Anon1 has declared with certainty that the act was committed by “mindless student union activists.” He also claims that anyone who disagrees is a crazy conspiracy theorist, which is a documented tactic of government agents to discredit dissenters.
What sort of person defends the establishment, makes accusations based on no evidence, uses known security service tactics, and spends hours of his time challenging contributors to a whistle-blower’s website?
You decide.
“The Greens had the policies. They just didn’t have the financing, the tactics, the media, the power base, or the ruthless single-mindedness.”
That’s true. Moreover, people didn’t vote for them in great numbers because they grasp that given our FPTP system, their votes are essentially wasted ones.
JimmyGiro
Of course we can speculate, in the best traditions of a pint down the pub. My point is that Craig is making statements based on no evidence whatsoever, and is engaging in surprising hyperbole. How can you call something subject to a news blackout when we have already about it in various media and watched and heard reports on other.
Bob smith
Habbabkuk (la vita e’ bella)
9 May, 2015 – 11:04 pm
“Was not the time and plqce to register dissatisfaction with the Conservatives at the general election on Thursday?”
…………………………………………………………………….
No doubt Habbabkuk you would like to see all protests against the state banned.
But you keep harping on about freedom of speech; freedom of expression.
People can only “protest” at the ballot box every five years?
Anyone up for a wee trip to London? Get all painted up and show that we are not all up here hiding behind our SNP champions, leaving our neighbours to battle it out on the streets alone?
“Anon1 you are a hologram. And when you come to realise that you are a hologram then you will have woken up.”
I refract, therefore I am.
“The Greens had the policies. They just didn’t have the financing, the tactics, the media, the power base, or the ruthless single-mindedness…
… or a fucking clue.
@Bob
No offence intended Bob… unless your a bad’n.
Heard this on Radio 4 news this morning, but I concur not given the same attention as Scottish ‘events’ before the election.
Tim Holmes @timbird84
Fewer than 1 in 4 of us voted Tory. This should be on a big board in Parliament Square for the next 5 years #GE2015
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEpS2-XWgAAo4G9.jpg:large
Daniel
“given the deficiencies of FPTP, the massive bloc of non-voters clearly thought that engaging in the democratic process was a waste of time.”
It doesn’t seem clear at all to me. Your idea of a slumbering social democratic mass awaiting a progressive party and/or PR seems questionable seeing as how people have decidedly failed to vote for either in recent opportunities.
Actually, Mr Murray, the refusal to vote (no matter what personally motivates each abstention) does not translate as opposition to, but as endorsement of whoever wins the race. It is leaving others, who took the trouble to cast their ballot, to make the choice for you. Hence, the present government is both legal and legitimate (61% in favour).
Keep repeating that and believing the arse about tit narrative, don’t forget to keep taking the tablets too.
This government is as legitimate as a nine bob note, and there is not a scintilla of doubt about that!
Jimmygiro
No offence taken. I think I’m on the side of the Angels.
Bob
Node 1.40p.m. Excellent analysis. Meanwhile in the papers the Bufton-Tuftons and Tea-Partyers (Yes, believe me) are all over the comments sections. For them, if the Beeb said it, then it must be gospel truth.