Craig is meeting Julian Assange in the embassy. Watch this space.
Allowed HTML - you can use:
<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
Allowed HTML - you can use:
There are reasons to believe that this leak did NOT come from Snowden. On the Citizen Four documentary, Snowden said that he chose to leak documents that showed the unconstitutionality of the US / Five Eyes mass surveillance programme, and that he avoided taking documents that were not relevant to that. Snowden had no particular involvement with either Saudi Arabia or Israel. All the documents Snowden released were from Five Eyes countries.
I don’t think it was wise for Assange to publish anything about the Saudis. Nor the Israelis if he is thinking of doing so. These guys will murder anyone who gets in their way with no embarrassment of being the prime and only suspect. Assange can no longer live in safety unless imprisoned, either at his own choosing or that of others.
The game being played by Sweden is playing out as expected. The political class there is now so kooky, crooked and hate-filled as half of the commentators here. So let no one get their hopes up that a breakthrough will eventuate to obviate the current impasse on Assange’s legal status and freedom. He is stuck where he is and, for the time being, safe.
A New-Look Sweden is a prototype for the UK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7IaCcAJQwY&sns=em
The Saudi comms dump are said to have been intercepted/leaked by the Iranians, who bugged the Saudi Arabian embassy in Morocco, allegedly, but everywhere is filled with smoke and mirrors, so we can all believe that which we wish.
It could vaguely have been Julian’s old trick of running a TOR exit node & snarfing the exit plain-texts. . .
amusingly, Edward Snowden has just won the freedom Award of the Kazakhstan Journalists’ Union! ASTANA here he comes!
Clark.
“There is no reason to believe that this leak came from Edward Snowden. Wikileaks haven’t said anything about the source.”
– That’s certainly possible, but it’s much more speculative to hold that these reports did not come from Snowden’s collection, whether he himself was personally involved in Wikileaks publishing the ‘so called leak’ or not. There are zero reports that fresh govt systems have been compromised and that govt data has been uncovered by Wikileaks.
” And whoever leaked the documents could be supportive of Israel and may therefore have removed any documents that would be to Israel’s disadvantage. ”
– That then raises questions about Wikileaks which others have been raising since day one.
I think at this stage it’s reasonable to sa the extremely small (if any – I can’t cay for certain as I haven’t followed them too closely) number pertaining to “Israel” certainly does look like there is some pro-“Israel” dimension to it all.
“performing redactions where necessary.”
– That’s something else draws questions about Wikileaks.
As for the verification point you made, do you not concede it would be incredibly ‘dangerous’ for people trying to confirm the veracity of the supposed files? Such probing would certainly be noticed and you can bet the US [and therefore “Israel” the UK, Australia and Canada – probably Germany and France too] will already know what info Snowden managed to grab.
Perhaps the biggest point of all is….
What have these leaks achieved?
And isn’t the answer to this “ABSOLUTELY NOTHING”?
lwtc247,
1) I didn’t make any point about verification of the Saudi leak,
2) A publishing organisation like Wikileaks cannot help but be dependent upon the sources of leaks. Omissions from leaks cannot be blamed upon the publisher without further evidence.
3) My £100 says Snowden was NOT the source of the Saudi leak – you on?
lwtc247, what are your actual accusations, against Snowden, and against Wikileaks?
lwtc247, I can’t read Arabic. Can you?
lwtc247, I suggest you pay attention to YouKnowMyName. Try asking him/her some questions about GCHQ.
Sorry about all these afterthoughts…
Clark, I read an Iranian website where they claimed to have made the Morocco intercept, when combined however with the new Wikileaks focus on French Presidential discussions, it looks more like a major ‘full-take’ operation, so. . . Putin?
however, when we think of NSA/GCHQ – we now think of thousands of pimply youths hard at work at their keyboards, swapping & comparing politician pr0n, with their grey-bearded serious colleagues muttering in the background about how it used to be – when the actual citizens weren’t the target!
but, from articles like these (Pine Gap 5-eyes base) you can see that only ten percent of the manpower at this major 5-eyes base is actually Aussie spies! Globalization!
so, contracting companies involved at Pine Gap.5-eyes, NRO have poor operational security standards so it could be another one of the hundreds of contractors who has donated a bundle of data to Julian
I think a top-level investigation is needed, and not just in France!
“What have these leaks achieved?
And isn’t the answer to this “ABSOLUTELY NOTHING”?”
– –
No. How is it possible to know what positive developments that impact on your wellbeing have or have not occurred that you don’t see with your own eyes?
One criticism bean-counters regularly make against specific basic scientific research is that there is no known benefits expected to arise from such research. And yet, we have all this extraordinary technology and methodology that gives us the wonders of the modern age. Internet anyone?
Recently, there have been celebrations over the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta. Ignoring for a moment the mythology surrounding that series of documents, it is believed that Magna Carta gave us the foundations of many freedoms that we have today. I would disagree with that, but what it did give us is a series of royal charters that committed to responsible government until those charters were subsumed into the business of the later UK parliament.
The American constitution is a product that was inspired by Magna Carta. And other constitutions have been modelled on variations of it since. All of which are concerned about the rights of people and their communities and constraints upon governments that naturally drift towards despotism. I’m unsure if North Korea has a constitution.
What Wikileaks/Assange and Snowden, amongst others, have given us is an insight into the dubious and nefarious inner workings of governments, corporations and cliques. Without those leaks, we would be none the wiser, left to ponder over the veracity of rumours and conspiracy theories that leech through the walls of secrecy.
Let me ask some questions of those who think it’s a bad thing to lift the veil of secrecy from the workings of government. How can you know that the government is working in your best interests? How can you know if and when they are engaged in wickedness? How can you wrest control of your liberties back from a despotic regime when you are sitting impotent in an information vacuum created by own your vocal support for government secrecy?
The pathetic thing about collaborators is that they are victims of their own actions.
amusingly, Edward Snowden has just won the freedom Award of the Kazakhstan Journalists’ Union! ASTANA here he comes!
I don’t belIEVE it! Next stop, the Tony Blair Faith Foundation…
“1) I didn’t make any point about verification of the Saudi leak,”
– I never said you did.
“2) A publishing organisation like Wikileaks cannot help but be dependent upon the sources of leaks. Omissions from leaks cannot be blamed upon the publisher without further evidence.” – fair point, but to simply ignore the lack of and “Israeli” dimenstion to all, this isn’t reasonable and smells peculiar.
“3) My £100 says Snowden was NOT the source of the Saudi leak – you on?”
– I don’t gamble. And actually my post didn’t say Snowden was the source of this leak, and given the time-lines, there’s a reasonable chance he wasn’t the source.
“lwtc247, I can’t read Arabic. Can you?”
– Not as much as I’d like. Very little in fact. But I was making reference to the English text that was there in the page.
My assertions against Wikileaks. I merely suggest their lack of things “Israel” are quite glaring. Why that is can be speculated upon but of course no definites can be drawn – unless one was in the inner circle.
But that brings me to another point. I find it absolutely incredible that given the resources of the the Western spy agencies, that Wikileaks continues to operate and that only Assange and Snowden seem to be the establishment “baddies”. That seems quite “establishment” in itself. Whether Wikileaks are just a deliberately erected front or a genuine operation that that’s been manipulated into an establishment tool, I still can’t say, but it’s certainly not looking good.
And I’ll stand by what I’ve said, Wikileaks has achieved a grand sum of zero, other than perhaps creating the scenario for even more legislation to stifle information and journalism as a whole plus various freedoms.
Jermand, it’s a bit rich to compare Wikileaks with the Magna Carta.
lwtc247, there is a difference between comparing and equating. I hear this false criticism all the time when minor comparisons are made. especially the one that you can’t compare apples with oranges – well, you can. And if it is possible to say the Earth is round like an orange and that marmosets and gorillas are both primates, then it is perfectly valid to say that the just as Magna Carta had an effect on the accountability of government, so does leaking government secrets. You see, a square and a triangle do not have to be the same thing or the same size to both be polygons. Agree?
Further –
“My assertions against Wikileaks. I merely suggest their lack of things “Israel” are quite glaring”
So what? So is the absence of anything related to Tasmania. Is it possible that Assange knows, as I have suggested, that he would have a much shorter lifespan should he publish Israeli secrets? Leaking US government secrets does not oblige him to leak the secrets of other governments. There are several plausible explanations including the very obvious absence of leaked material to Wikileaks.
– – –
” I find it absolutely incredible that given the resources of the the Western spy agencies, that Wikileaks continues to operate and that only Assange and Snowden seem to be the establishment “baddies”.”
Is that to suggest that only that which you do not find incredible is real? I don’t think reality cares whether people believe in it. What you find incredible someone else finds credible and vice versa. You must have noticed it before and seen that things you did not believe have transpired to be true. Some people find it incredible that North Korea was allowed to become the vicious state that it is now. And yet, by all accounts, it is. Other people find it incredible that Tony Abbott will be returned as Australia’s Prime Minister and yet, sadly, it seems very probable.
In any case, it is a dead end to debate what you want to believe. Facts and analysis are what counts and in the absence of some important facts, you can speculate, within reason, what might be true. So, what are the established facts? What is the logical analysis? What do you want to speculate on and have sufficient circumstantial evidence to compel us to consider?
@ Jemand, 24 Jun, 2015 – 9:19 pm
“Agree?”
No, because I reject your frankly daft attempted association of the Magna Carata with Wilileaks.
Re: Tasmania
Tasmania isn’t a ‘global player’. It pulls no strings and neither are strings pulled on it’s behalf. Again, another silly association.
At least we can now save time ignoring each other’s comments. That’s a positive outcome.
Viva La France !
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/06/25/french-justice-minister-says-snowden-assange-offered-assylum/
French offer asylum to Assange and Snowden
Could but won’t under US pressure. Or will – with a free bonus US assassination thrown in.
@Jemand, Certainly true that some assassinations have happened in France recently.
” French offer asylum to Assange and Snowden ”
Couldn’t as the EAW is valid in France.
He might get better food in the French embassy though.
Assange is one of my heroes. I don’t tend to venerate many people – but he has my utmost respect. I have always appreciated your support for him Craig and it is one of the reasons I keep coming back to your blog even though I disagree with many of your views (your take on Charlie Hebdo particularly distressed me).
It is frustrating that he is holed up in this embassy for fear of incarceration in the US. I can’t see any way out of this in the current climate. The elements of the British public that may have supported him and campaigned for his release have been successfully turned against him by the press (most shamefully The Guardian). I fear he has been too ahead of his time to be allowed to be at large but hope that will change.
I would be really interested to know how frustrated he gets by being misunderstood and misquoted on many opinions he gives – even by those who support him. I hope his optimism about humanity and his belief that our tendency, given freedom to choose, is to choose for the better overall, is still intact.
I may be a dreamer, but with current intelligance practices increasingly either outdated and useless or/and at odds with a nominally free society, in order to survive with any principles intact we will need to enlist our brightest and best to completely reconfigure. Bring on the Cypherpunks…….
Got this yesterday: Disturbing Video Incites Police Rebellion Against Ecuador’s President Correa:
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/contenidos/2015/06/26/noticia_0019.html
Defend Social Justice in Ecuador – Oppose Right-wing Destabilisation:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ZS50XvOSc3eaVLRC-jFneZNVKKv84oROqvojA9_LVhU/viewform?c=0&w=1
Just like the ‘Arab Spring’, Syria, ‘Colour Revolutions’, Ukraine, Venezuela and now Brazil and Ecuador, violent demos, probably to be augmented by sniper fire killing both sides, more violent demos, and if things go to plan, ‘Regime Change’.